Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 
Backcountry Gear Clearance and Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#87920 - 01/23/08 09:10 PM From the waist down?
StepChld Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Garland, Texas
Ok, I've got the top half of my gear set...mid-weight thermal base long sleeve top, 100 wt. fleece shirt, M65 liner, fleece/nylon vest and very warm wool/fleece beanie. But now I'm having a hard time trying to figure out my cold weather gear for below the waist. I already have a mid weight Polartec thermal base but what outer layer do ya'll suggest? Usually I wear flannel lined cotton cargos and so far I've been lucky to not be caught out in serious weather but I'm afraid if I get caught in rain, I'd be up a creek. Where I'm at, it snows little but we do get lots of days in the lower 30's to lower 40's that can be very wet. Nights can get into the 20's, occasionally cooler (like this weekend, down into the mid teens). So any suggestions? I need something sturdy like my cotton cargos, have insulating capababilties, dries quickly and since I'm on a school teacher's budget that has a family of four, I need it cheap (realitively). <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Never moon a werewolf

Top
#87921 - 01/23/08 09:41 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
No cotton in winter!!! None, no cotton undies, no cotton pants, nada. Repeat this three times before you go shopping. Even cheesy fleece from a big box store will be better than cotton.

Look on eBay if you are looking to save bucks. I have Marmot Precip full zip rain pants and some cheap fleece pants I can wear under them. I wish they were full zip, but they're not. I also have some synthetic insulated pants from GoLite-got them on sale a while back-more of a deep winter pants than what I think you are looking for.

Jockey makes some nice synthetic briefs that dry out quickly.

Wool-some people love it. I have some old wool gear I bought years ago. It will last a long time. Mine isn't the high tech stuff, so it is scratchy. Something like Smartwool or Merino isn't, so they say.

Oh, and before I forget-NO COTTON IN WINTER.

btw, If you think that is a myth, walk outside in 50F weather with a breeze wearing a damp t-shirt and wet pair of jeans, then come back and tell us how warm you were.


Edited by TomD (01/23/08 09:49 PM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#87922 - 01/23/08 10:41 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: TomD]
StepChld Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Garland, Texas
I understand your point about not wearing cotton in winter...in fact,my cargo pants are the last cotton item that I have, everything else is synthetic or wool. I just need something that is water repellant, have some insulation, and durable/sturdy...and did I mention cheap? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

mucho gracias!
_________________________
Never moon a werewolf

Top
#87923 - 01/23/08 10:59 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: TomD]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6372
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Tom is right--absolutely no cotton--not just in winter but any time of year! My daughter was in the early stages of hypothermia after an hour of hiking in blue jeans along a trail through tall grass. The air temperature was 60 degrees, the air was still and it wasn't currently raining, but she was soaked from the hips down and that was enough to get her shivering, although she didn't bother to tell me until her teeth were chattering loud enough to be heard from 20 feet away. Her brother and I set up camp immediately, in record time, and got her (sans jeans) into her sleeping bag with multiple cups of hot cocoa.

Here's what I wear from the waist down, winter and summer, although I may not wear all of them at once.

Underwear--for me (female), cheap nylon panties. Whatever you wear, be sure it's synthetic. I plan to dish out a few more $ for something that wicks better than nylon. I've seen a number of favorable reports about athletic underwear from Walmart.

Base layer--Patagonia Capilene 2 (summer), Capilene 4 (winter)--these are both polyester. REI's MTS base layers (also polyester) are excellent, too, but they weigh several ounces more than the Patagucci. You can often find closeout models of either brand on sale (although you may have to grit your teeth on the colors). In summer I wear the base layer only in bed and (on cold nights) in the early morning. A lot of folks swear by Smartwool or Icebreaker merino wool, but those can be budget-busters.

Next layer--nylon pants (summer), wool-polyester blend pants (winter). The summer pants can be cheap nylon track pants. My fall-winter-spring pants are Air Force surplus tropical weight pants, of a polyester-wool blend that has worn like cast iron. I bought them in 1987 for, as I recall, $5. The cuffs have frayed but I stitched them up, and the rest of the pants are still good. I have no idea if such things are still available, but check out military surplus stores. Check thrift stores, too--a tightly woven polyester-wool or all-wool dress pant would be just fine for cold weather, and thrift stores may have lighter nylon pants for summer, too. If it were really cold I would use fleece pants instead. Here in the Pacific Northwest winter usually isn't that cold--I might not wear the base layer while actively moving in the daytime.

Outer layer--I use the same rain pants summer and winter. I have 3 different pair: an old pair of REI coated nylon full-zip pants, a pair of Frogg Toggs pants and a pair of Brawny Gear rain pants (silnylon) from AntiGravity Gear. I haven't tried the Frogg Toggs in the winter and find them a bit fragile for summer (they have several duct tape patches where they've snagged when I've had to clamber over deadfall). The coated nylon from Campmor are the cheapest and probably the best quality. I've never felt the need for breathable pants, unlike jackets--most of my sweating is done above the waist. Your Mileage May Vary.

If I were going out right now (27 degrees with a 50 mph wind blowing out of the Columbia River Gorge), I'd wear everything including the fleece pants--the wind chill factor is below zero!


Edited by OregonMouse (01/23/08 11:07 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#87924 - 01/23/08 11:12 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I know nothing about this company, but the product and the price are right:

http://www.vtarmynavy.com/german-wool-pants.htm

Top
#87925 - 01/24/08 04:40 AM Re: From the waist down? [Re: TomD]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I agree with everyone else: no cotton. I usually just adapt my normal summer hiking outfit of a pair of Patagonia Baggies nylon shorts (the built-in briefs eliminate the need for a change of underwear.) I put on a set of midweight bottoms under the shorts as the weather cools (mine are Patagonia R.5; they no longer make the Regulator series,so I suppose Capilene 2 or 3 would be the equivalent.) Personally, I've never been able to hike in long pants, and prefer shorts.

If it's colder, windy, or wet (or any combination of these), I'll layer on my rainpants (Patagonia Rainshadow.) In the past, I've carried a wind shell plus a non-breathable coated-nylon rain suit. When I switched to a waterproof-breathable rainsuit, I found that the rain suit can do double duty since I'm not doing anything too abrasive, like climbing. Since you specifically asked about outer layers, I'd suggest Campmor or REI house brand waterproof-breathables (very reasonable prices) or, if you want to go a little cheaper, Campmor or REI coated nylon rainsuit (or any poncho) and a separate windbreaker and wind pants (both used to sell these, though I always went to the sale racks at WalMart or places like Burlington or Marshall's and found totally functional uncoated, unlined or polyester-lined garments for $10 or so apiece. The poly-lined garments, over midweight long johns, were very warm and comfortable for winter hiking, but too hot for summer use.)

In winter, I also carry a pair of Montbell Down Inner pants; these usually only go on in camp, and are too heavy to hike in. I've tried hiking in fleece pants (various 200 weight layers) and expedition-weight longjohn bottoms, but always found them too hot and too confining. Your conditions and needs might make them feasible for hiking, though.

Notice the Patagonia trend? It's only because their clothes have always fit me, every time, and not any implication that they're a superior product. I haven't had the same luck on fit with other brands. However, if they fit you, I could highly recommend Campmor's house polypro or REI's MTS garments; my son has used these two brands for years, with the same outcome as my Patagonia: warm and dry. I've also noticed that some "technical" underwear is now making its way onto department store shelves at reasonable prices. I found some polyester tops and bottoms at Kohl's the other day that looked perfectly fine. However, I also found some T-shirts there that were advertised as "Tek Wear" complete with packaging claims regarding "great technical performance," "wicking," and "responsive moisture management system"; when I read the label, I found that they were 100% cotton. So be sure to read those labels.


Edited by Glenn (01/24/08 04:49 AM)

Top
#87926 - 01/24/08 08:25 AM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
I like to separate the shell and insulation functions. The outer shell is typically nylon or polyester with DWR. Depending on temperature, I add or subtract insulation layers underneath. I'm partial to merino wool for that, but poly fleece should work fine (some would say better).

When it's too cold for the woollies, I go for a garment with pile insulation like the Patagonia Micropuff pants. They are anything but cheap, however. Down pants might be the ultimate, but I don't tend to go out in weather where they would be required.

Top
#87927 - 01/24/08 09:13 AM Re: From the waist down? - wind pants! [Re: StepChld]
jaiden Offline
member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 123
Go to walmart! Prices are estimates.
Synthetic boxer briefs (or whatever) $8 ( I wear these 365 days now)
wool or synthetic thermal underwear $15
Wind pants $15 (workout pants. mine are surprisingly VERY wind/water resistant)
Fleece pants $15

After that, you could get goretex shell pants, but probably won't need them unless you plan to sit on the snow. if so, check the ski section of a sporting goods store.
The wind pants are cheap enough that you don't have to worry much about durability, but then they are pretty durable anyway.

Oh, and if you can't find fleece pants, look for fleece pajama pants. same thing.


Edited by jaiden (01/24/08 09:13 AM)

Top
#87928 - 01/24/08 09:17 AM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
StepChld Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 43
Loc: Garland, Texas
Ok...let's see what I've learned.
Base Layer - synthetic, wicking, not cotton - check, already have that (Bass Pro PolarTec XPS brand...just the right amount of warmth and extremely comfy)

Outer Layer- water proof preferably, not so much for insulation but perhaps windproof - Check, already have a pair of Frogg Toggs- durability is questionable though. Remember I'm in Texas...everything pricks you, sticks you or bites you. Lots of cactus where I go, often off the beaten path.

Mid Layer- this is where I falter. I need rugged pants to deal with scrub and cactus. I like the idea of the Air Force pants, although you're right about finding them. Should be durable...and cheap...style? Who cares about that, I'm on trail <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I like the idea of the PolarTec thermals coupled with the 200 wt. fleece...good for days when I'm totally on the path, sounds warm too...off trail though would collect thorns, scrub, etc. like nobodys business <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
The Wal-Mart/Burlington/Marshall's choice of cheap wind pants over thermals is probably the cheapest and might just work. I used to do that when in college for everyday wear on really cold days...need to look into that. That should be durable, warm if it has a poly liner, somewhat water repellant, and cheap. I just don't want elastic cuffs at the bottom, but I guess those could be taken out.
Hhmmmm...lots of food for thought. This is all good stuff, thank you all very much! Anyone else feel free to chime in!
_________________________
Never moon a werewolf

Top
#87929 - 01/24/08 11:10 AM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
The old-fashioned answer for rugged non-cotton pants would be something like Filson whipcord wool pants. I don't even know if they exist anymore, but cheap they are not. Never were. You could sniff around on eBay for some rugged wool pants, I suppose.

Top
#87930 - 01/24/08 04:23 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Once I wore cotton jockey shorts under all wicking gear and skied in a snow storm. After I got back to my truck and started driving I realised that my undies were soaking wet and I had to pull over to take em off, only I had on so many layers of fleece that instead I cut the sides of the offending garment and tossed it in the back. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

Top
#87931 - 01/24/08 06:16 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: Jimshaw]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Ladies and Gentlemen, the always entertaining, Mr. Jim Shaw!
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#87932 - 01/24/08 10:10 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: aimless]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Quote:
The old-fashioned answer for rugged non-cotton pants would be something like Filson whipcord wool pants. I don't even know if they exist anymore, but cheap they are not.


Someday, when I grow up, I'm going to own a pair.

http://www.filson.com/sm-whipcord-wool-pants--pi-2092345.html


Quote:
You could sniff around on eBay for some rugged wool pants, I suppose.


[...insert joke here...]

Top
#87933 - 01/26/08 05:53 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
A place called Brigade Quartermasters sells nylon pants that are heavier than normal summerweight ones. If you don't mind camies you can try nylon pants from various hunting outfitters, such as Cabela's. Some models are marketed as brushproof, which sounds pretty durable. Another option is to buy insulated nylons meant for kayaking.

Top
#87934 - 01/27/08 02:02 PM Re: From the waist down? [Re: StepChld]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Wall mart and zellers here sell cheap nylon running pant shells. these work pretty
good for shedding dry snow and wind.

I generaly wear one of two bottom layers in winter.

both start with a pair of polyproylene long underwear (I wear NO cotton).

Then for option 1 I add a pair of fleece pants - usually 200 weight, and top with a rainpant or nylon shell pant - these can be found cheap at walmart usualy.

For option 2, I Might wear a light nylon shell pant over the longjohns, and then step into
a pair of surplus british navy wool arctic watch pants. heavy, huge and totally warm, with
a pair of suspenders on them. Often in these I dispense with the nylon shell pants inside.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


Top

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Bivvy Sack combo Arrangement
by Jim M
10/18/17 01:58 AM
what is the lightest framed backpack around 40L
by toddfw2003
10/16/17 07:23 PM
a worthy challenger to the msr pocket rocket2
by the-gr8t-waldo
10/16/17 01:28 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Backpacking/Camping Near Savannah, GA
by Sean&Brit
Yesterday at 08:27 PM
Napa Fires
by balzaccom
10/11/17 07:43 PM
Backpacking the Ouachita Trail thanksgiving
by toddfw2003
10/05/17 11:54 PM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
lightest grommets to use
by toddfw2003
Yesterday at 06:13 PM
alcohol stove comparisons
by Bike_packer
10/03/17 08:56 PM
Can footprint plasticizer harm tent ground-sheet?
by Weston1000
09/10/17 02:24 AM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Sean&Brit, Blackbuzzard, LivelyLiz, Weve, Tones21
12425 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com