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#87697 - 01/21/08 04:56 PM pad woes
Heintooga Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 470
Loc: GSMNP
Intending to test some bags this weekend, I set up camp on the back deck. It's shaded and out of the wind, kind of like A/T shelters. At about 12dF a Thermarest Toughskin was found to be lacking, So I hustle in to swap it for two Ridgerests, one regular and one deluxe. They did well together until I rolled onto my side and the hips got cold. I've been on snow at those temps with one Ridgrest (standard) and a Prolite3 (short) and done well. I'd prefer to stay with closed cell pads since I don't like inflators. What's my solution to get below 0dF with closed cells and warm hips.
_________________________
...ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein... (Jeremiah)

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#87698 - 01/21/08 05:39 PM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
I made that same mistake. If you are on your deck - you might as well be in a hammock. Unless you plan to sleep in shelters, you might as well get on the dirt. But if you are too sleep in a shelter this time of year, you might as well sleep on the ground and not on the racks. (I overused 'might as well' in this post, but I like it, and you might as well, too.)

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#87699 - 01/21/08 09:10 PM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
just_another_Joe Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 117
Gossamer Gear sells two types of evazote pads, insulation and padding. Have you tried them? Two of the padded type (short and regular) worked for me, but the temp was 10 degrees warmer than your 12 degree deck. I think evazote was chosen by GG for its better insulation.

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#87700 - 01/22/08 04:35 AM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
I used reflectix as an under pad last winter. It felt as though it would extend the use of my, then, old walmart closed cell. I would give you a peice, but the roll I bought made a few cozys and one pad for me, Then my camping buddy got hold of it and went to town making stuff. I think the roll cost 14.00 at home depot. It is light and water proof. Now bear in mind that it was in an OR advanced bivy, but I took my 20 bag to 10 degrees last year (wearing every stitch of clothes I had) with the aid of reflectix. And then continued to use it through last February. I could go into more detail, but the stuff is cheap enough and light enough to warrant your own tests. And it does make some really good cozy material.

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#87701 - 01/22/08 08:38 AM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
A couple decades ago ( <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) I was perfectly comfortable on the snow in the -20s. I shared a tent with one other hiker and a dog, and used one of those heavy, reflecting 'survival' blankets as a floor cover. For pads I had one of the standard, half-inch blue foams and an open cell egg crate which was probably two and a half inches, certainly no more than three inches, thick. Of course, the sleeping bag was a heavy one, had a liner, and I wore lots of extras. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This wasn't lightweight backpacking...but my point is, it was fairly easy to be comfortable with what seems now to be some pretty basic equipment. Still, it seems the colder it's gonna be, the heavier the pack.

It helped a lot to have everything packed on a toboggan pulled by the dog... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#87702 - 01/22/08 10:01 AM Re: pad woes (Hmmmm...) [Re: Heintooga]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
My standard setup that has kept me warm to -5F is this:
1 Space Blanket UNDER the tent floor (keeps snow from melting too)

2. RidgeRest full length pad on tent floor

3. Regular Thermarest on top of the RidgeRest

Never had a cold night with that combo.

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#87703 - 01/22/08 03:14 PM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace

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#87704 - 01/22/08 04:06 PM Re: pad woes [Re: hootyhoo]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Hooty,
I can't open that PDF's chapters but geeze oh man! It sounds like SCIENCE!
"Don't bother me with the facts - I've already made up my mind."

(Or at least my descretionary funds for winter have already been depleted on ski equipment and trips and I can't afford a new mattress.)

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#87705 - 01/22/08 04:42 PM Re: pad woes [Re: 300winmag]
Heintooga Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 470
Loc: GSMNP
Quote:
Hooty, I can't open that PDF's chapters but geeze oh man! It sounds like SCIENCE! "Don't bother me with the facts - I've already made up my mind."(Or at least my descretionary funds for winter have already been depleted on ski equipment and trips and I can't afford a new mattress.)Eric


Don't worry Eric, that one was for bag insulation but was volumous and informative. Guess I may try adding an emergency blanket for the next backdoor outing.
_________________________
...ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein... (Jeremiah)

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#87706 - 01/22/08 10:40 PM Re: pad woes [Re: hootyhoo]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

I've made cozies out of reflectix and love it. My standard cold weather setup has
been a sandwitch of two wallmart ccf's with a thermarest in between. I'm nice and toasty
down into the -25C range with that, but it's pretty heavy. I can strap the ccf's to the outside
of an 80litre pack, but it's usually toboggan gear.

Thinking about refelectix, however, it might be worth my while to try some reflectix for the bottom layer. Mind you ccf is pretty light (if bulky) too. Not sure how mugh weight i'd save.

Anyway, I do pretty well with a ccf sandwitch with an inflatable in the middle.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#87707 - 01/23/08 08:01 AM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
So I hustle in to swap it for two Ridgerests, one regular and one deluxe. They did well together until I rolled onto my side and the hips got cold.

I like sleeping all over, but in the winter I force myself to sleep on my back. Then my GG 1/8 ThinLight with my NightLight and WM Antelope and long johns, keeps me warm and comfy. I cant use those mats (only) in the summer though because my back gets sore.


I've been on snow at those temps with one Ridgrest (standard) and a Prolite3 (short) and done well.

Thats my favorite combo if Im not going to backpack far or if Im not a Sherpa for my family. As winmag pointed out, Never had a cold night with that combo.


I'd prefer to stay with closed cell pads since I don't like inflators. What's my solution to get below 0dF with closed cells and warm hips.

Would you mind an open cell pad? Billk made his own. Sometimes I use my NightLight with bumps down, with an open cell egg crate mat (1.5x30x15 5.5oz) bumps up on top. Note that this is a small open cell mat, but I put it where it counts <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. I have found this to be more comfy than 2 closed cell pads.

Good luck in your experimenting. May everyone find their sleeping zen.
-Barry

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#87708 - 01/24/08 12:04 PM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
BradK Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 2
Wow I just found the perfect forum to ask the question I have been trying to find the answer too. I have normally used a therm-a-rest expedition with an "R" value of 4.4 weighing in at just under 3lbs. I am getting ready to due a longer hike in March to the Smoky National Park for at least 70 miles. The weather looks like I could have anything from 30 degrees and warm to 10 degree and snowing. Since this is all shelter hiking I was looking for some opinions about what to carry.

My plan is the carry the ridge deluxe and be done with it. I have a 15degree marmot sawtooth and plan to bring my liner. The real question is "Will I suffer?"

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#87709 - 01/24/08 12:22 PM Re: pad woes [Re: BradK]
Heintooga Offline
member

Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 470
Loc: GSMNP
At 30 you will be fine with an RR dlx but at 10 you could get cold spots on the shelter decks. I've been told but haven't tried it yet, that a piece of mylar or emergency blanket will boost the pad's performance.
_________________________
...ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein... (Jeremiah)

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#87710 - 01/24/08 04:02 PM Re: pad woes [Re: BradK]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Brad K
a downfilled airmattress weighs half as much as the expedition thermarest and is MORE comfortable.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Jim YMMV <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#87711 - 01/29/08 08:36 PM Re: pad woes [Re: Heintooga]
Paul Offline
member

Registered: 09/30/02
Posts: 778
Loc: California
On your deck you will be colder than on the ground or on the snow, because there is airflow under the deck so the underside of the pads is exposed to the air temperature. The ground or the snow is going to be about 32 degrees. Try your pad combination on the ground or the snow to see how it will do. I lke a thermarest on top of a ridgerest for snow camping.

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