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#86506 - 01/11/08 06:30 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Earthling]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Eugene, yup on the shotgun....8 shot riot gun is at the ready here. As far as rifles go, lets just cut to the chase and carry a Barrett .50. That will give you time to fix breakfast as you watch your attack bear through the scope 2500 yards away......commin ta git ya! It WILL hammer in your tarp pegs when not locked n' loaded. I've never held/seen a 500.

Yeah, Jimshaw, I've seen bears in the wild. The first one was sitting in the middle of the road in Canada, west of Toronto, while my wife and I were riding our bicycles. We thought it to be some HUGE dog (Texans don't automatically think 'bear') and rode up to get a closer look. It saw us, looked upset, and ran off.
Second bear was just west of Juno....big sucker, no threat, majestic to watch. Our guide carried a 30-06...we hiked through a lot of devils glove.
Third bear was a black that stopped a mountain bike race I was in, cold, while in Arkansas. It planted it's butt right in the middle of the single-track and wouldn't budge. We rang bells, banged sticks on the handle bars, blew whistles....finally it wandered off and we continued.
Fourth bear was one of the first sightings of a Mexican black bear that returned to Big Bend National Park. They were hunted out of the park over 60 years ago.
I was hiking up Pine Canyon and caught a glimpse of a sow and cub running along the canyon wall above me....Mexican black bears are one of the smallest North American bears.
Fifth possible "encounter" was also in Big Bend where I was 'checked out' by what I believe to be a bear while on a solo hike/camp in the Chisos mountains. Noisy, breathy, and stank like old road kill. I'm not absolutely sure what it was....it was on the back side of my tarp at 3:00am. Smelled like rat snake musk but was way too noisy for a snake, breaking stick and bark. Funny...I was petrified and fell back asleep while trying to remain still. Got bored I guess.
Only one griizzly out of all the above.

Cheap,... lighten up. You are new to the forum and are dealing with a lot of folk who know what they are talking about....and some are having fun with you. No, we don't use rifles/shotguns as tarp poles. I don't carry weapons in the backcountry unless there's a really good reason to....and that's pretty much never. I get the impression you don't go back and read responses to your posts, based on your responses....might be time to do so.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#86507 - 01/11/08 07:25 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Dryer]
cheap Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 46
sorry about that!
sometimes I start ranting on about somethin and don't shut up!

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
PS: I figured a gun would rust if it was used as a tent pole-
only thing I ever shot was a .22 rifle and a 12 guage.
_________________________
Huh?

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#86508 - 01/11/08 07:39 PM Re: Guns? [Re: cheap]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> That was YOU Paul <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> And all along I thought I was alone in that canyon <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Once you hold the 500 a 357 will seem like a peashooter <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I'm really surprised that S&W did'nt unveil it at the Alamo it's such a huge handgun, and round <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> It sounds like a cannon going off complete with muzzle fire <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Just some good ol' boys playin' with their toys <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> One of my closest friends is a hobby gunsmith and reloader and has quite a collection of toys. Nothing like sittin' around his woodstove and ding'n rounds off a stump at the other end of the basement <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> We 'rarely' miss the paper plate on the stump. But hey, that's what sheetrock is fer' right? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Cheap lighten up on the avatar smoke ther pal <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> None of us regularly carry in the bush, that I know of; unless we are going soomeplace that requires it for the safety of the party/regulations. Indiscrimanately taking of life is nothing we condone, we go to enjoy the wildlife, but realize it is not a zoo.
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#86509 - 01/11/08 08:33 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Earthling]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
My brother in law has a .500, 5 shot revolver. I got the opportunity to shoot 5 rounds out of it, in San Antonio. I have also shot a 44 mag and 357. The 500 is a pretty big round. Dryer, go to Sportsman's Warehouse, or Bass Pro and take a look. You can even look at the bullets. I haven't shot a Barret .50 cal, but I have shot an M2 Browning Machine gun. But there is no kick to that because it is on a big huge tripod. The 500's purpose IS bear hunting. You put a little scope on it, and don't have to carry a rifle.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#86510 - 01/12/08 07:10 AM Re: Guns? [Re: cheap]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Cheap, one of my neighbors had a bear getting in their garbage last summer and a blast from their shotgun didn't kill the bear, disfigured it is all. Other neighbors including myself have had a bear get into the garbage, I plan on getting a bear resistant garbage can, since I am away from home all week. Trying to figure how to rig up something from steel, hate to have to spring for something made from steel, pretty expensive. Those plastic garbage cans are costly, around $50, plus $40 to ship from back east to California.

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#86511 - 01/13/08 12:27 PM Re: Guns? [Re: cheap]
MattnID Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 317
Loc: Idaho
Quote:
You guys make me feel sick!
Quote:
Head shot, one chance, then it's on you. Weather it's bear or mugger/carjacker. Practice makes perfect. Also how would a 30-06 work for a tent pole?


Bears are living things too, and here you are, talking about how to kill one. If i didn't know you guys were more responsible, I would think you would shoot the first bear you see just to brag about it.

It is a sad world when people want to use a rifle as a tent pole because they are scared of a bear.

And don't even joke about shooting someone else like that.





It's better to know and not need than to need and not know. I would also think it is fairly common sense that shooting pretty much any animal in the head is going to do the job you are obviously intending by doing so. Animals die everyday in far more violent and painful ways than just simply being shot in the head. You act as though hunting doesn't take place and people never kill anything, or that it is even bad to do so.

And it isn't a sad thing when people use a rifle as a tent pole, though I think that was said in a slightly joking manner. Sometimes it is simply a necessity, like it or not.
_________________________
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.-Aristotle

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#86512 - 01/13/08 02:48 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Dryer]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
Dryer if you are using your shotgun as a tarp pole you should hang a sign that says 'Bears Come Back Later'. Otherwise you will have to compromise your shelter to shoot the bear. Dooh!

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#86513 - 01/13/08 02:52 PM Re: bears [Re: wvheaven85]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
I recommend Kung Fu. Use the bears weight against him. The bigger the bear the harder they fall.

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#86514 - 01/13/08 04:15 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Jimshaw]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Earthling,
Wolfeye said "Small handgun". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Yes, and by "small" I mean .44 magnum with a 3 to 6" barrel. Most of my hiking is done on Annette Island in Southeast Alaska, and there happens to be no population of browns or grizzlies there. There are a few blackbears, but they're very, very rare, typically only found there temporarily because they managed to swim there from a larger island. I honestly don't know what protection I'd carry if I hiked on the mainland or on Prince of Whales Island.

Most of my post wasn't about guns at all; my faith is in one's ability to avoid attention from bears in the first place. More than anything, I figure a handgun is something one carries to make themself feel safer. The culture is Alaska is also a lot more relaxed when it comes to firearms in general; it feels like I'm showing my roots by "doing as the Romans do" whenever I hike up there in my home state.

Anyways, I didn't mean to cause the thread to go off on a tangent...

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#86515 - 01/13/08 06:20 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Wolfeye]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:

Yes, and by "small" I mean .44 magnum with a 3 to 6" barrel.


Yeah, that sure is small.... There, my sarcasm for the day. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#86516 - 01/13/08 06:34 PM Re: Guns? [Re: hootyhoo]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
"Otherwise you will have to compromise your shelter to shoot the bear. Dooh! "


Yeah, not a pretty sight. Tarp gets all tangled...holes blown in it. Bear tripping all over itself, laughing so hard. If I use the shotgun as a trekking pole, things can go completely downhill if I forget to unplug the mud from the muzzle. But I'm a learnin'. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#86517 - 01/14/08 05:39 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Dryer]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Dryer
"NEVER DISCHARGE A LARGE FIREARM INSIDE A TENT" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Especially not magnum or P+ loads as the fireball will burn the tent down.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#86518 - 01/14/08 07:15 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Jimshaw]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Good advice, Jim! I'll stick with 3" Express loads. Red wad columns. Herco.

Hey, Earthling has given me the S&W 500 hots. That is a BIG revolver! And just think, using it as a tarp pole will help the tarp shed water better! No need to carry a flashlight either. "wheres my watch. BLAM! oh, i see it now!"
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#86519 - 01/14/08 07:19 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Dryer]
cheap Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 46
Colt 1911 for me!
Managing to get one in Canada was a nightmare!
I think a full clip of .45ACP rounds should do the trick.
Nice and loud too!
Might not work as a flashlight though <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

oh well...
_________________________
Huh?

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#86520 - 01/14/08 08:00 PM Re: bears [Re: hootyhoo]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2835
Loc: Portland, OR
Use the bears weight against him.

I like this answer best, so far. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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#86521 - 01/15/08 03:28 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Dryer]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
Good advice, Jim! I'll stick with 3" Express loads. Red wad columns. Herco.

Hey, Earthling has given me the S&W 500 hots. That is a BIG revolver! And just think, using it as a tarp pole will help the tarp shed water better! No need to carry a flashlight either. "wheres my watch. BLAM! oh, i see it now!"


Like FinallyME said Paul, it's a flamethrower <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Nothing more fun than 'canning watermelons or cantelopes' with a 500 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Listen to the earthling he knows of what he speaketh on the weaponery <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You could hand chuck a 500's cartridge at a bear and stop it I think...now that's UL! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#86522 - 02/02/08 10:14 AM Re: Guns? [Re: cheap]
Ecrow Offline
member

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 85
Loc: N. New Mexico
Sure, trying to scare a bear is best, if you have that window. Some bear attacks have occured so suddenly that the hikers didn't have time to use spray. Sometimes you need to kill something at point blank range immediately, but many times you just suspect something is snuffling around the area at night. (it's like trying to catagorize car wrecks).

The largest grizzly shot (30 yrs ago) was popped in the side of the head with a 22. I've known of cases where an attack was averted by a poor shot breaking the front leg of a grizzly.

Practice food, smell, and cooking techniques, but if you are in a group smaller than three, carrry a glock. Carry a glock. Oh, and a shotgun? that's for birds.

Ecrow
_________________________
Ecrow
Live to tell.

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#86523 - 02/02/08 10:45 AM Re: Guns? [Re: Ecrow]
MattnID Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 317
Loc: Idaho
Quote:
Practice food, smell, and cooking techniques, but if you are in a group smaller than three, carrry a glock. Carry a glock. Oh, and a shotgun? that's for birds.

Ecrow


Well I don't think I'd belittle a shotgun so easily. Have you ever seen what a slug does to an animal? Well I have and a bear wouldn't fair so well if hit by one.
_________________________
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.-Aristotle

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#86524 - 02/02/08 01:03 PM Re: Guns? [Re: MattnID]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
A slug will work if you get a shot off in time and I'll bet it also makes a good tent pole. I have a 30-06 which I think is to cumbersom on the trail so I'll carry 45cal auto with slugs or hollowpoints. If I get a good head shot off maybe 1 or 2 at best that might work. But we all know where mites grow!
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#86525 - 02/02/08 07:49 PM Re: Guns? [Re: chaz]
BobEFord Offline
member

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 72
Loc: SE AZ
We had a puma stalking our dogs in the Sta Catalina Mtns. It did not want to leave us.

Made me think about packing some heat in that area next time - if for nothing else to make bigger noise (it would also add to the feeling of security when packing further south in areas with more abundant illegals and contraband trafficking).

Bears are not a major issue for us in SE AZ, but these bear bangers sound interesting for the puma.

Sticking with the "light" theme, what packs the most punch for the least weight?

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#86526 - 02/02/08 08:44 PM Re: Guns? [Re: BobEFord]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

Sticking with the "light" theme, what packs the most punch for the least weight?


Bear spray.

I can clear 5 bowling pins from the front of a 4x8 sheet of plywood with a .45 from the leather at 7 yards in under 3 seconds when I was younger, still under 4 today. I'm the rare breed of a canadian that shoots IPSC. Even when I know I could get away with it (illegal in canada) I don't bother with pistols. They're heavy, and I've seen the tests and papers. Bear spray is more effective, and it's a lot lighter than any of my guns that aren't going to just make something merely annoyed when shot at.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#86527 - 02/02/08 08:49 PM Re: Guns? [Re: BobEFord]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Was the kitty cat "stalking" or just curious? I have found kitty tracks covering mine on various trails, particularly in the Baboquivaris, where I have spent many happy nights camped on or near Lion Ledge. Never heard of an attack on humans in Southern Arizona during the time I was living there (1955-1983). In my experience firearms have generated more SAR call outs than mountain lions (8-0).

This isn't an anti firearms rant. I have owned and used guns since I was twelve and my S&W 357 Magnum is one of my most cherished possessions. It is just that in most outdoors contexts, firearms are useless weight - this is a lightweight forum, after all.

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#86528 - 02/02/08 09:24 PM Re: Guns? [Re: phat]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
phat
bear spray <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
When I feel the need to pack my .44 I always carry snake shot <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> in the first chamber,

[bear spray = snake shot] <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
then 2 P+ magnum loads, followed by 3 .44 specials.
The snake shot makes a nice loud warning shot <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> that can be coupled by actually shooting at it with snake shot at medium range, the spray plus noise should scare anything with a brain. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Snake shot wouldn't even penetrate a bears fur over 20 feet away but it would scare him. The 2 p+ loads are obvious stopping power. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> The 3 specials shoot very flat with almost no recoil are for bringing down an escaping wounded animal. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Fortuanately I have never had to fire in self defense, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> so I have never fired the .44 in the wilderness. BUT. I feel a lot better when I'm carrying it and that shows to animals. I growl with my .44, and I feel less fear when I am standing behind it. BUT then I also grew up with guns in a hunting family of pioneer stock and Indian heritage. My people killed and ate Bar, but they also respected mr bear big time... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I would do everything possible to avoid seriously injuring a bear, but hitting one with a rock is still fair game. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#86529 - 02/02/08 09:45 PM Re: Guns? [Re: Jimshaw]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
phat
bear spray <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
When I feel the need to pack my .44 I always carry snake shot <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> in the first chamber,

[bear spray = snake shot] <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
then 2 P+ magnum loads, followed by 3 .44 specials.
The snake shot makes a nice loud warning shot <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> that can be coupled by actually shooting at it with snake shot at medium range, the spray plus noise should scare anything with a brain. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Snake shot wouldn't even penetrate a bears fur over 20 feet away but it would scare him. The 2 p+ loads are obvious stopping power. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> The 3 specials shoot very flat with almost no recoil are for bringing down an escaping wounded animal. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Were I to pack a pistol for bear, It wouldn't be loaded that way. It would be the .38 super loaded hotter than hades with 162 hardcast, or more likely the cz 75 with 15 rounds of canuck military surplus submachine gun 9mm hardball "do not use in wimpy handgun around lawyers" loads that penetrate and penetrate and penetrate - the kind of load that leaves nasty dents in the bianchi plates. If I were ever to fire at a bear, if it wasn't a central nervous system hit it wouldn't matter. Love my .45 but not for that. The only thing that's gonna stop a grizzly at full tilt at 20 yards is a central nervous system hit, or a lungful and eyeful of capuschin spray. The latter is lighter on my belt, and much easier to achieve, even though I am good with a handgun.

Quote:

Fortuanately I have never had to fire in self defense, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> so I have never fired the .44 in the wilderness. BUT. I feel a lot better when I'm carrying it and that shows to animals. I growl with my .44, and I feel less fear when I am standing behind it. BUT then I also grew up with guns in a hunting family of pioneer stock and Indian heritage. My people killed and ate Bar, but they also respected mr bear big time... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


I grew up essentially the same jim - my indian roots are about 5 generations removed, but I grew up hunting and still do. I've seen moose and elk wander away poorly shot by idiots and absorb 8 rounds of .30/06. I hold no illusions about a grizzly with a couple of rounds of .44. Your mention of confidence is all important, and I believe the attitude and respect you show based on your confidence in an encounter is all important. Again, that's why I carry what I carry - I am much more confident in it's ability to stop them coming towards me than my pistols would be, and I've probably burned through a couple hundred thousand rounds of handgun ammo over the years.

Not to mention that the spray bomb is darned effective against two legged problems too.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#86530 - 02/03/08 07:11 AM Re: Guns? [Re: phat]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Hand guns are definately limited and heavy if you can't shoot quick and accurately. I have thought about snake shot and think it a good idea. But, I'm for sure gonna get bear spray. I grew up around guns and used to hunt, but what got me back into firearms was getting carjacked by two kids in my front yard. I went through the mental cycles that everyone goes through after getting stuck up and swore it would never happen again. I carried a SW 9mm everywhere and would practice offten. I wasn't satisfied until I could shoot the tips of limbs out of trees at around 30 yards. (most of the time) Guns are useless unless you can shoot well.
A necessary evil. Necessary against evil and evil in the wrong hands.
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Enjoy your next trip...

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