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#82977 - 11/15/07 05:59 PM There's honey all over my down sleeping bag?
applecorekevin Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1
So some idiot who used my bag got honey ALL over it. I've been reading about cleaning and I know the steps, but do you think I should do anything out of the ordinary with this type of mess. I'm worried that the honey seeped through the liner and somehow might have ruined the down on the inside.

The bag is a down sleeping bag by Mamut or Marmot, it's real nice and I'd hate to lose it. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks.

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#82978 - 11/15/07 06:05 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
Just leave it outside the tent in bear country and the bears will lick the honey off -- do not be inside the bag , especially if you are ticklish. Just kidding.

Have you thought of asking a professional dry cleaner it there are options?

Do so at your own risk, but I had a bag that I washed many times on the whites/hot setting. It lasted for many, many years and if washing it in hot did anything, I did not notice. No matter what, it sounds like you are going to have to wash it or have it washed.

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#82979 - 11/15/07 06:46 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I'm just guessing, but I would start by soaking it in the bath tub overnight in warm water. Just leave it floating honey side down. Honey is very soluble. If there is lots of honey or if its on both sides change the water and do it again. Once it is no longer sticky I would say you are done. Then dry it like you normally would. You might want to treat it also, however that is done. Honey is very soluble though, though it takes awhile, so I wouldn't worry to much about it. Warm water and time is all you need. Any honey molecules left over will be turned into alcohol and C02 by all the yeasties and beasties floating by, or in the honey already, and all that will evaporate. Who knows, the natural honey treatment might even be good for it. Maybe you don't need to treat it when your done. For a natural treatment maybe some goose grease.

p.s. Please disregard all I've said and ask Penny. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#82980 - 11/15/07 10:24 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I'd call Rainy Pass Repair, or someone similar. They launder down bags as well as do repairs and have probably seen similar problems.

http://www.rainypass.com/

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#82981 - 11/16/07 06:10 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
AYCE Offline
member

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 50
Quote:
Have you thought of asking a professional dry cleaner it there are options?


Definitely do_not_dry_clean a down bag. Dry cleaning solvents will ruin your down. Other than a thorough washing by the ordinary steps, there isn't anything tragic or special about the honey soiling.

Hand washing in your bathtub in warm water, changed a few times to dissolve out the honey and agitated by hand to work the dissolved honey into the rinse water will take care of the problem. After a couple of fresh rinses use a down soap (thunderdown by mcnetts, downsudz or similar) and rinse several times again. There will be no damage to the bag as long as you're careful not to let the weight of the wet bag rip a baffle during washing when you lift the wet bag out of the tub.

Drying takes many cycles- hours of drying time. You can cut drying time by a significant percent by carefully arranging the wet bag into a washing machine and putting it through the 'spin' cycle (only the spin cycle- don't let that agitator turn) or find a laundromat with an "extractor" (basically a super spin cycle). Check daily after drying for a few days to ensure that the bag is thoroughly dry.


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#82982 - 11/16/07 06:12 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Easy. The nice thing about down is it's really tough stuff. I've got 5 down bags, and one is 25 years old, been washed many times, and is still my favorite bag, so I know this works. I'm also assuming your bag is normal ripstop and not some tissue thin super ultralite fabric....either way, follow the directions on the bag tag.
Honey is water soluble and comes right out, so no worries here.

What I do:

1. string a line on your patio or between two trees, open your bag, and hang it up long ways over the line, so you can get to both sides. Fill a bucket with warm water and a squirt of unscented Dawn dish washing liquid. With a big sponge, wipe down your bag, inside and out. Do this two more times with fresh clean, warm, rinse water. Towel it down. Let air dry well and inspect. It's likely your bag will be good to go. The down is probably fine, it's the shell you're cleaning. If not clean or your feeling honey clumped down after drying, proceed to #2.

2. Assuming you have a washer/dryer....front loader is best but I've done this for three decades in a top loader with no problems... just pay attention. First, put on some good music! You'll be here a while. Set your machine to warm/warm, fill it, and shut if off. An unscented liquid laundry detergent is fine....dump some in and stir with your hand or a poker stick. (you write back and tell me you've torn off your arm, I'm NOT responsible!! Machine OFF!) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
With the bag still in it's stuff sack, submerge it in the water and slowly begin pulling it out of the stuff sack, underwater, allowing to saturate. (if you don't do the stuff sack thing, you'll be wrestling a giant bloated/wet monster!) Once out of the bag, work out all the air pockets. If you have a front loader, run a normal cycle and two rinse cycles. If a top loader, wash it by hand in the machine tub...skip the wash cycle....(then remove your hand and close the door <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />) , two spin and rinse cycles. It's the spin cycle after the two rinses that's important....spin the heck out of it...the more spinning, the less drying.
Once spun....zip tie a sock around any zippers, fluff, and put it in the dryer. Dry normal heat. Throw in some tennis balls to keep things interesting (tennis balls or not, it will still dry.) Check the bag every few minutes early to make sure it's not knotted up. During they drying phase, it's normal to lose a few feathers, but you're losing 'em anyway with normal use.

You should thank who ever borrowed your bag that they didn't spill oil, meat juices, or transmission fluid on it, but even that can be removed. If they spill sardines on your bag, in some states, you have the right to kill 'em. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

















Rules around here: no chocolate or sticky goo while on my sleeping bags/quilts.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#82983 - 11/16/07 06:23 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
Usually, dry cleaning down bags is discouraged. It's thought that the solvents involved will strip the feather's natural oils which are essential to the down's lofting. It's also thought that dry cleaning chemicals will obstruct the breathability of GoreTex-like materials. Finally, there's a concern about those same solvents being retained by the bag leading to some outgassing of some nasty fumes. At the minimum I think you'll find dry cleaning down bags is "generally not recommended." In fact, REI and others say dry cleaning is not appropriate for any bag.

Here's the recommendations that Feathered Friends of Seattle publish;

QUOTE Down bags can, and definitely should, be cleaned when they start to accumulate oils. If your bag has started to lose loft, or the fabric is badly discolored, it is time for the bag to be washed. Body oils, hair oils, lotions and cosmetics are all acidic and will slowly decompose down. Oils also contaminate DryLoft and Gore-tex and heavy contamination may cause delamination. The down in your Feathered Friends sleeping bag was carefully processed to the correct oil/acid balance. We feel that both Down Suds and Thunder Down are the best soaps for restoring down to its optimum oil and acid level after use. An 8 oz. bottle will wash four bags and costs $4.95. It is essentially the same soap used by down processors with some added stain removers. Do not expect either Down Suds or Thunder Down to remove all the stains. DO NOT DRY-CLEAN you sleeping bag. Either wash the bag yourself by carefully following the detailed cleaning instructions below, or have an experienced cleaner WASH your bag using a special down soap. END QUOTE http://www.featheredfriends.com/customer_service/down_feed.aspx#4 There are more detailed instructions at the same url.

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#82984 - 11/16/07 06:34 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
The only thing I would add to the excellent advice you've received, is to start by simply wiping off as much of the honey as possible with a wet wash cloth. You want to keep to a minimum the amount dissolved in the wash water which will get inside the baffles and on the down.

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#82985 - 11/16/07 07:37 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Ender Offline
member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 779
Loc: ME
Good advice so far. One point... don't dry clean, as that will hurt the down. Try soaking and washing it first. Maybe two times. If that doesn't help, send away to a pro bag washer.

The very next thing I would do would be to slap the person you lent it to silly, and of course make him pay for the repairs if you do incur repair costs.

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#82986 - 11/16/07 09:18 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2801
Loc: NorCal
Hey, Boo-boo. Honey-wrapped campers, what a treat!

Honey is water-soluble, so it's not going to be a huge problem. I'd sponge as much as possible off first, then launder it in a proper machine with down soap. It will be as good as new, since you'll restore some of the loft that's gone missing over the years as the down has accumulated dirt, sweat, etc.

I wash my down stuff in a front-loading machine on gentle cycle using various down soaps--Nikwax most recently. Drying and lofting takes nearly forever, but that's about it.

Good luck!
_________________________
--Rick

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#82987 - 11/16/07 06:59 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
trolan Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 24
Loc: Alabama
As a beekeeper I can tell you it does not wash off unless it's very hot and then it still leaves the smell behind...I would not use it in bear country!

Good luck
_________________________
Asst. Scoutmaster Tim R.
beekeeper-a-walk-in

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#82988 - 11/17/07 08:37 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: trolan]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I spilled honey in my pack once. Threw everything into the washing machine and it came out clean and no smell. Thank god for cotton camping gear eh?
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#82989 - 11/17/07 10:15 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: Jimshaw]
Xelif Offline
member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 241
Loc: Bay Area, California, USA
That cotton sleeping bag work well for you, Jim? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Just teasin! Don't get mad! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

(Nice side effect of cotton that I hadn't thought about, I have to say...)
_________________________
- John

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#82990 - 11/17/07 03:32 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
I did not say dry clean it- I know better than that. I said ask a professional -

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#82991 - 11/18/07 09:27 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: Xelif]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Xelif
For a long time I carried a US MTN Regular sleeping bag with a cotton shell and stuffed with "chicken and waterfowl" feathers. It wasn't THAT heavy, but it was certainly a warm refuge. The summer I used it I hiked about 450 miles in the Sierras with no coat or tent and just a gnd cloth that I could flip over my bag if it rained. Add to that a home made backpack and cooking in coffee cans and you get the picture. Anyway the honey washed right out but it took a long time to fluff up again. I traded a camera for the bag...

Heck before the mtn regular I carried the old rectangular cotton fleece bags with "synthetic stuffing" and I wore out 2 of em!
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#82992 - 11/18/07 06:30 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: Jimshaw]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Ah yes, big monster sleeping bags.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Reminds me of my boy scout days when I was young, dumb, and full of .....lots of energy.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#82993 - 11/19/07 10:12 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
So some idiot who used my bag got honey ALL over it. I've been reading about cleaning and I know the steps, but do you think I should do anything out of the ordinary with this type of mess. I'm worried that the honey seeped through the liner and somehow might have ruined the down on the inside.

The bag is a down sleeping bag by Mamut or Marmot, it's real nice and I'd hate to lose it. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks.


I would've had the user pony up the cost of the bag minus the age/condition deteriation <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Then I would've tarred and feathered them in honey and dropped 'em off on a fire road in bear country so they could think long and hard about what they'd done on the run home <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Honestly, if I borrow someone's gear and damage it I don't return it until it has been properly repaired or replaced, but hey, that's just my way of operating <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#82994 - 11/19/07 07:12 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: Dryer]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

You should thank who ever borrowed your bag that they didn't spill oil, meat juices, or transmission fluid on it, but even that can be removed. If they spill sardines on your bag, in some states, you have the right to kill 'em. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Transmission fluid.. oh the horror. I'm having flashbacks... Had a trip where I wrapped the
tranny cooler lines around the driveshaft on the way in. Got the truck out but hiked anyway. Trail
was a *river* much of the way and I was *covered* in transmission fluid. My hat, hair, and raingear were soaked.

Actually was still an ok trip. just little bit epic <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
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#82995 - 01/13/08 06:14 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: applecorekevin]
cheap Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 46
I could imagine a wWinnie the Pooh coming in and attacking you because of your honey coated sleeping bag.

I hope you have a lot of bear spray. You'll need it! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Huh?

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#82996 - 01/18/08 08:51 AM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: Ender]
Kate Offline
member

Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 45
Loc: On top of the North Downs, UK
Make THEM hand wash it, under your strict supervision and sharp comments. They won't do it again!

My wonderful Blacks Icelandic down bag went AWOL many moons ago when a friend of my sister took it up Killimanjaro. Their tents were raided and the bag stolen along with a pile of other stuff. I never did get round to replacing it! Shame, as it was a damned good buy! The label came off, and I got it for 20 instead of the then normal price of about 90, which was way out of my league in 1975! That bag was washed several times in the few short years I owned it: got covered in muddy water when a tent leaked in the Lake District, covered in raw egg when someone was being silly... And slastered in jam when I was ill... Oh, and it got just plain grubby with use. Came up beautifully every time. I used Nikwax stuff as it was easy to get hold of here in the UK, even back then.
_________________________
Kate XXXXXX
Mad sewing witch!
http://www.katedicey.co.uk

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#82997 - 01/18/08 12:13 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: Earthling]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
You must be selective to whom you loan you stuff. Or choose your friends wisely. I don't like borrow stuff, but once my car was in the shop and a friend loaned me his old car (he bought a new one). I drove it for 2 days, it was filthy. When I returned it, it was cleaned inside and out and full of fuel. I think that's just how things should be.
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#82998 - 01/18/08 01:22 PM Re: There's honey all over my down sleeping bag? [Re: chaz]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
I think that's just how things should be.


You are right, but unfortunately it isn't that way. My method is to loan stuff that I won't care if it is broke or lost. I have a couple cheap packs I lend out sometimes. When my brother-in-law was in boy scouts, I lent it to him almost every month. I got it for $25 on sale. I have a few cheap sleeping bags as well. I have a cheap socket set for those who use tools. 99% of the time, the person borrowing it doesn't know if it is the best or not. Sometimes, I just give it to them.

The benefit of this is; your good stuff isn't ruined, and you aren't being a jerk and can borrow something else from this person. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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