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#77562 - 01/08/08 05:10 AM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: mugs]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
It is obvious that you don't understand real business.

Ryan Jordan probably has absolutely no control over the distribution of the book and the outlets in which it appears. The book publisher customarily has control over the distribution, but you can self publish if you desire to have control yourself as an author.

The book publisher would most likely desire to have REI as a seller of the book, and if one wanted to spread the gospel of Ultra Light Backpacking, one would desire that this book be distributed at places like REI.

I understand your frustration, but I believe that it is misplaced.

However, since your rant has been aired, I hope that you feel better and can once again sleep nights.

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#77563 - 01/16/08 11:23 AM Dr. Jordan [Re: mugs]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
Quote:


Imagine my disgust when I saw Dr. Ryan Jordanís book Lightweight Backpacking & Camping: A Field Guide to Wilderness Hiking Equipment, Technique, and Style at of all places the Wal-Mart for the outdoors REI.

Getting back to my point. How dare you, Dr. Jordan.

You Dr. Jordan have done the same thing in this case.

(1) You are not doing this by selling out Dr. Jordan.



I had the librarian at a local University run a Doctoral Dissertation search for Ryan Jordan.

No doctoral dissertation was found.

So, I wonder about the title of Dr. for Ryan Jordan. It is possible that he has an honorary degree from somewhere. Or, (shudder) one of the "diploma mill" unaccredited outfits which give credits for life experience.

Or, somehow, people began throwing that title at him, and it "sticks".

Anybody have any knowledge of the academic title?

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#77564 - 01/16/08 11:31 AM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Roocketman]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
From his bio page over on BackpackingLight:

"Ryan has a B.S. in Civil Engineering and an M.S. in Environmental Engineering from Washington State University, and a Ph.D. in Biofilm Engineering from Montana State University's Center for Biofilm Engineering (http://www.erc.montana.edu/). "

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#77565 - 01/16/08 03:37 PM Re: Closing remarks [Re: Earthling]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
We're almost nearing the end of our tomato season here in NJ, though it was a banner year for most everyone.

Remember if you wrap those Fall green ones up in newspaper to check them every few days to make sure they're not spoiling. I just wipe the tomatoes' surface down with a handy wipe that's been wrung out after having been dipped in a dilute solution of water and bleach. I've found it keeps the spoilage to 10% or less through to January <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Just to let folks know; I ate my last garden fresh tomato on New Year's day with a nice slab of VT Chedda' on garlic bread. Was it good? OH YEAH <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

3 months from the begining of a new crop <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#77566 - 01/16/08 03:45 PM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: hootyhoo]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
I first saw BPL two years ago and it was obvious to me that there was some good marketing involved with that organization. They must employ the Karl Rove of light packing in their maketing department. I was looking for learning materials and bought the book- disappointed. Looked at the site- they will not get my money. Checked out Bozeman Mountain -come on! Who knows for sure that Ryan is really a Doctor? A doctor of what? Save your money and stay away is all I have to say. And as for the 'who gets bought out' in the manufacturing world-- they all get bought out or get too big and loose sight. But thats okay, because there always seems to be another company coming along that will fill the gap. I bet Golite will the next one to get grow big enough to be snatched up. If you can't beat your competition, buy 'em. And yes you might see more people because light is easier. I was a climber, until Stallone's movie, Cliffhanger. Then that sport got overcrowded. They built a big fancy fly fishing store up by the smoky mountains and now if you want to fish there you have to bring your own rock so that you will have a place to stand. How many commercials are there with fly rods or kayaks? Whitewater is so overcrowded now that I sold both my boats. The day you see someone lighting a cat stove on an insurance commercial-- you will know its over. It will be like Disney world out there. So to those people that support companies like BPL, thanks alot. When it gets overcrowded and popular you can thank yourselves.


Thanks for ghost writing this for me Hooty <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I agree whole heartedly with your post; which, unfortunately shows great insight <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#77567 - 01/16/08 09:01 PM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: Earthling]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
GoLite has a branding deal with Timberland-but it appears to be only for shoes -done in 2006.

I really don't understand all this bashing of Ryan Jordan. Questioning his degrees, etc. really isn't a credible way to attack someone when from what I read, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Just because someone can't find Jordan's doctoral thesis doesn't mean squat. Call the university if you are that certain he is faking his credentials.

As far as bashing Jordan for selling his book at REI, what is that all about? Do you people think you belong to some secret club that entitles you to attack someone for "selling out" because they are selling a book? That kind of thinking is ridiculous.

Who gave you the right to be the only person on the trail or in the water? There are plenty of places to go that are not crowded; you just have to know how to find them and that isn't all that hard.

By your logic, this site and any others like it shouldn't exist or should only be accessible to certain people. I don't buy it and don't like to see these elitist ideas promoted here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (within reason), but what's next? Black people shouldn't go camping, Latinos should stay home? No one over 30? Only hikers who pass some kind of purity test allowed on the trails? Get over it. It's a big world and if you don't want to share it with others, too bad, if you are on public land, it's not your choice to make.

ps. All of these are my personal opinions and not connected in any way to Charles or TLB.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#77568 - 01/16/08 10:40 PM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: TomD]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Thanks for ghost-writing that for me, Tom <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I must admit that Ryan Jordan's use of the title "doctor" seems a bit pompous, but, well, who cares?

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#77569 - 01/17/08 06:11 AM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: TomD]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Well said Tom. However I an still not posting my favorite trails on the internet.

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#77570 - 01/17/08 07:17 AM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: mugs]
alanwenker Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 812
I am not a moderator, but if I were, I would have deleted the post simply for the pathetic, bold face, macho challenge of his first sentence. The thoughts deranged lunatic come to mind.

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#77571 - 01/17/08 08:53 AM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: alanwenker]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Quote:
The thoughts deranged lunatic come to mind.

In fact, he is a pretty solid citizen. I suspect he was having a bad day and started the thread at the high (low) point of it; none of us should be judged by our bad moments.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#77572 - 01/17/08 09:26 AM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Roocketman]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I'm sure that Ryan Jordan has his Ph.D. I seem to recall that an MSU faculty member I knew was on his dissertation committee.

Incidentally, it is generally considered to be poor form for someone with a Ph.D. to use the title "Doctor" in other than professional circumstances; that is, those related to ones area of expertise. Most Ph.D's I know use Mr., Ms, or Mrs. in almost all social and business dealings. On the other hand, those with professional doctorates such as the MD seem to use the title both professionally and socially. Not sure why the difference.

A acquaintance of mine learned about this the hard way. He and I had traveled to a small town in Colorado on University business. He had recently gotten his Ph.D. in Range Science, was proud of it and thus had had all of his credit cards and ID changed to read Dr. Smith. When we checked into the motel, he registered as Dr. Smith. Late that night, he got a call from the front desk saying that another guest was having what they believed was a heart attack and would he please go to room 222 and look at the person. When he told the desk clerk that his doctorate was in Range Science the clerk replied; "Oh, I thought you were a real doctor".
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#77573 - 01/17/08 10:54 AM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Pika]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
"Oh, I thought you were a real doctor".


I get that all the time. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#77574 - 01/17/08 11:04 AM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: finallyME]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
I like to think I am a real doctor when I stay at a Holiday Inn Express <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

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#77575 - 01/17/08 12:17 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: midnightsun03]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
It is common for anyone in other fields, besides medicine, to call themselves doctor if they have a Ph.D. College professors do it all the time and rightly so. It indicates a certain level of academic accomplishment and sure, maybe some people flaunt it, but it doesn't bother me at all.

According to Wikipedia, Ryan Jordan has several degrees, including a masters and a PhD in biofiilm engineering. He taught at the college level and headed a research program on groundwater. Pretty arcane stuff, but quite important work in my estimation.

Say what you want about him, but his backpacking credentials are pretty impressive-a number of long distance (300+) miles unsupported hikes, plus a lot of other adventures.

I'm not suggesting anyone has to reveal their favorite hiking trail to anyone, but at the same time, if someone wants to promote their sport, whether for profit or just because they think others might get some enjoyment out of it, that is their right to do so.

Like Yogi Berra once said, "No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

If you want wilderness, it's out there; if you want to go where no one has been before at all, even that can be found if you are willing to look for it. There are probably places in California where no one has ever been or if you go certain times of the year, you will be alone.

Heck, last winter, I went camping and went out to Dewey Point, one of the more accessible and popular lookouts in Yosemite and was alone the whole day. In summer, no doubt a different story. In the three days I was camping, once I turned off the road, I saw only a handful of people snowshoeing. Hardly a crowd. When I talked to a couple of them, they had no idea I was even camping there. At night, I was totally by myself. The one group of campers I saw one night was pretty far away from me.

I was camping midweek, but that weekend-the 3 day Presidents' Day weekend, the Valley floor was full of tourists. I went down there with friends who came up for the weekend. A very different experience. Do I find the crowds annoying? Sure, but it's not my park.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#77576 - 01/17/08 02:04 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: TomD]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Quote:

It is common for anyone in other fields, besides medicine, to call themselves doctor if they have a Ph.D. College professors do it all the time and rightly so.

You are correct that a lot of Ph.D.'s call themselves doctor every chance they get, heck they even put it on their auto license plates. All I can say is that when I was a faculty member it was generally considered poor manners to mention it outside the academy unless it was necessary to establish ones credentials. Maybe things have changed since I retired.

This is definitely not a major issue but personally, I feel it is a bit tacky when someone advertises their academic credentials in a social setting; most particularly when nobody has asked.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#77577 - 01/17/08 02:24 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Pika]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
This is definitely not a major issue but personally, I feel it is a bit tacky when someone advertises their academic credentials in a social setting; most particularly when nobody has asked.


I know I said this joke before, but it fits here so well. Can't resist.

How do you know if there is a pilot in the room? He tells you.

Ok, so it is cheesy, but I had too.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#77578 - 01/17/08 02:55 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Pika]
azcanyon Offline
member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 264
Quote:
All I can say is that when I was a faculty member it was generally considered poor manners to mention it outside the academy unless it was necessary to establish ones credentials. Maybe things have changed since I retired.

This is definitely not a major issue but personally, I feel it is a bit tacky when someone advertises their academic credentials in a social setting; most particularly when nobody has asked.

I don't think things have changed much, and I think you captured the general etiquette of academic titles precisely.

On the other hand, I don't know whether "Doctor Jordan" has gone around flaunting his title or if that's just something BPL groupies have glommed on to. In any case, I'm glad for Jordan's contributions and for the BPL site.

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#77579 - 01/17/08 04:45 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: azcanyon]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2801
Loc: NorCal
Hey, I know, let's check the Masthead.

Tempest, meet teapot.
_________________________
--Rick

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#77580 - 01/17/08 05:36 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Pika]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Tacky perhaps, common, of course. Medical doctors are the worst though.

What's the difference between God and a doctor?
God doesn't think he's a doctor.

Jordan also has a technology education company, which he started that offers e-learning courses in biomed and other related fields. This site does advertise his credits, since it is aimed at medical professionals and others in hi tech and medicine, so academic credentials are important.
Cytergy


Edited by TomD (01/17/08 05:42 PM)

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#77581 - 01/17/08 06:02 PM Re: Ul & Mainstream [Re: Pika]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
Mugs is good people. He's been looking at lots of things in his life, like we all hopefully so at various times. I suspect this was a look at some things that concerned him when he was out looking for a bit of peace and found himself surrounded by too many other hikers for any decent contemplation.
_________________________
http://www.trailjournals.com/BearpawAT99/

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#77582 - 01/17/08 07:28 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Pika]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Turn this story inside out and you can see why many MDs use their title in routine social transactions. I believe my dad would have signed the guest register in this motel as xxxx, MD, which would have been completely unambiguous.

There were plenty of situations where he was content to be addressed as "Mr.," especially if money was involved, because he felt he often got a better deal. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#77583 - 01/17/08 09:55 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: finallyME]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
That's not cheesy, finallyME, that's lactose-free!

How do you know a pilot is in the room? When it's time to pay the check and you find you're $5 short on the tab and somebody didn't leave their part of the tip.

(You know, cause they're so frugal, yet still can't manage their money, a hackneyed story. I take great pleasure in tormenting my pilot friends with that kind of thing.)

When protesters in Bolivia shut down the airport in Santa Cruz last fall and demanded the pilots pay the landing fee -- something like a grand -- in cash before they would be allowed to take off, my joke was "what pilot has more than $5 in his wallet."

I had a flight attendant tell me about the pilot boarding the crew bus back to the Caracas airport after a layover. The crew's all onboard and this woman comes running out of the hotel screaming and banging on the door of the bus, which they have the sense not to open. Another F/A asks, "What's up with her?" "Cap'n didn't pay for his hooker" was the reply.

I could go on, but this might be considered off the topic.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#77584 - 01/18/08 03:16 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: midnightsun03]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
I like to think I am a real doctor when I stay at a Holiday Inn Express <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


That's just what came over me MNS when i ageed with Hooty; see how it can fog one's thinking <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I campletely disagree with Hooty's post now that the errors of his ways have been delicately pointed out to me........What? i'm nort allowed to change my mind unless I edit my post? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#77585 - 01/18/08 03:25 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: kevonionia]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
FinallyME and Kevonnia <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My Dad was a pilot for Sebena Airlines...He could make two Linclons sing opera <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...Lincolns as in pennies!

ME: "Dad, do we have enough fuel to make it in to Mastic beach?"

Dad: "Sure son, this 185 was made to glide!" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#77586 - 01/18/08 05:42 PM Re: Dr. Jordan [Re: Earthling]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Someday I would like to be a pilot. I would love it if people made fun of me, if I got to be one. If I get a plane that is fitted to land on lakes, then I can get to better BP destinations.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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