Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 
Backcountry Gear Clearance and Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#72967 - 10/25/07 08:08 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
What that information tells me is that the biggest worry for a group of novices is probably getting lost. Also treacherous footing. And the consequences of either are quite severe.

Have you considered a different route?

Top
#72968 - 10/25/07 08:38 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
tarbubble Offline
member

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 996
Loc: ca-li-for-ni-a
please, please read what i am about to say to you.

are you all novices? do your buddies have extensive Grand Canyon experience? and i mean EXTENSIVE experience. the New Hance/Red Canyon trail is NOT NOT NOT suitable for beginners. i've been down in the Grand 6 times and i don't consider myself at all skilled enough to do the New Hance.

read this trails desription from Kaibab.org, the best GC website out there:

http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/bc/gc_tr_rc.htm

an excerpt:

"Like the Tanner Trail this trail should not be used by any but the most experienced canyoneers, especially you are travelling solo. If you should run into trouble along it your chances of rescue are very slim. This trail has additional disadvantages because its trailhead is not easily accessible and also because none of the trail is visible from any of the rim lookouts, meaning that all a signal mirror will do for you is let you signal aircraft. Another problem in that area is that in the winter months most the upper sections of the trail never get any direct sunlight making a signal mirror useless. At least on the Tanner Trail you can use a signal mirror to try to get help from people at the Desert View lookout. If you run into trouble on the Red Canyon Trail your best bet, depending on how far from the rim you are, is to keep heading for the river and to get help from a river party."


this is a completely unmaintained trail. it is not visible from most of the south rim. if you are going to do it, and i strongly recommend that you do not, you should rent a satellite phone or contact the GC backcountry office to ask what kind of personal locator beacon might work in there. i'm serious. if somebody gets hurt you are a loooong way from help. the trailhead itself is a quarter mile walk from the highway, and there is no parking, no view point. you'd have to wait for a car to drive by.

snow is absolutely a possibility. i have encountered snow, hail, and ice at the south rim, and in months closer to summer than November.

please, i'm not being an elitist "you can't do this" snob. you can do this in a few years, after you have some more Canyon experience under your belt. i just strongly suggest that you not do it this time.

Top
#72969 - 10/25/07 08:48 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: oldranger]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
Thanks for the warning.

It is going to be a 3 days/2 nights backpacking trip.
So Far, I have decided not to bring a poncho.

Instead, I am bring my:
Ski Jacket... Poly shell waterproof and wind proof with hood
Poly shell pants (got it a Walmart) as rain pants and since it is oversize I can double up for warmth.
A Golfer's Umbrella
Magellan Nylon Convertible Cargo pants (very thin and lightweight but quick drying).
One UnderArmor Coldgear Turtleneck (too warm for hiking, but good for base camp).
One UnderArmor T-Shirt
One UnderArmor Long Sleeve t-shirt
One Cotton T-Shirt
One poly type material ski mask that can be folded into a hat.
Three pairs of socks
Two pairs of underwear
Two Hiker Poles (SwissGear from Walmart at $10 each)
Energy bars, Almonds and 1lb of Beef Jerky.

After reading about the trail condition, I am going to leave the Weather Radio in the car.
Also leaving (the group agreed upon) 3 cans of beer and just bring a flask with a couple of packs of crystal light water bottle mix.

So far, Just my base weight (Tent (4.5), Pack (6), Sleeping Bag (2.5), and Pad (1)), I am at 14 lbs.

My goal is 25 lbs before water (2 Liters).
The Group of 6 will have a Purifying system as well as a Filtering system and a stove and propane. (Yet to be assigned.)

So maybe I should aim for 20 lbs.
Been hiking level ground for 3 miles at 31 lbs. I would like to get lighter than this.
BTW, I was kidding about the umbrella. hehe

Top
#72970 - 10/25/07 09:02 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
After re-reading some of your posts, I would like to respectfully suggest that you try something other than the Hance Trail. You and your party do not seem, to me at any rate, experienced enough to do the Hance Trail. My suggestion is that you contact the backcountry office at GCNP and see if you can get a permit for the Hermit Trail with camps at Hermit Creek and at Hermit Rapids. I have done both the Hance Trail and the Hermit Trail. The Hermit Trail is a gem, the Hance Trail is an ordeal, to say the least, and is dangerous in spots. Please re-think your plans.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

Top
#72971 - 10/25/07 09:02 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
In the Group of 6. (All drinking neighors)
Only me and one other guy are novices and ex-Army.
The only advantage for being ex-Army is that we have carried 50 lbs rucksack and hike (oops) marched in a circle in the sand in unbroken in boots over 15 years ago... hehe.

4 People with experiences:
One guy (Leader) has been on this Hance trail twice.
2nd guy has just came back from a Mt. Whitney hike. (Athelic type Probably will be the first one out of the Canyon)
3rd guy was from Arizonia and has hiked in the past.
4th guy has backpack experience many moons ago... He was the one that told me to chuck the Nevados and get Vasque boots. (Brother in law of 2nd guy, Probably will be the last one out of the Canyon and the man to outrun if there is a bear)

I am the only one training with full gear hikes in the neighborhood.

Top
#72972 - 10/25/07 09:06 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Pika]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
Pika,

I will definitely reconsider Hance Trail.
That is why I am on this forum.

Top
#72973 - 10/25/07 09:21 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: tarbubble]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
Thank you for the warning.
I don't want to mark this as stupidity backcountry novice on Hance Trail.
I will bring this warning up to the Team Leader and see if he will agree to changing the trail to Hermit Trail.

We are bring a Satellite Cellphone.


Edited by Imager (10/25/07 09:24 AM)

Top
#72974 - 10/25/07 10:53 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Pika]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
I forward all the comments, concerns and warnings about Hance Trail to the Leader of the Group.

Being that he had been on the Hance Trail twice before and knowing everyone's current physical ability in our group (ie. we had a softball team for 4 seasons and other activities). He say we are up to doing Hance Trail.

"I forgot to mention that my last trip to Hance, my two friends and I hiked out in the dark with our headlamps because we wanted a night time hiking experience. We won't do that one this hike but we were able to follow the trail at night."... Erik the Team Leader.



Either way, I will still be very cautious and mindful of the warnings.
My goal is still Preparation, Training and going Lite.

Top
#72975 - 10/25/07 12:10 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Pika]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
"a lot of people take light-weight instep crampons for this possibility."

What are light-weight instep crampons?

I've got Vasque Breeze with GoreTex and Nylon Shank.

Top
#72976 - 10/25/07 03:12 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Here's one version (from Campmor)

_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

Top
#72977 - 10/25/07 03:49 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
I forward all the comments, concerns and warnings about Hance Trail to the Leader of the Group.

Being that he had been on the Hance Trail twice before and knowing everyone's current physical ability in our group (ie. we had a softball team for 4 seasons and other activities). He say we are up to doing Hance Trail.

"I forgot to mention that my last trip to Hance, my two friends and I hiked out in the dark with our headlamps because we wanted a night time hiking experience. We won't do that one this hike but we were able to follow the trail at night."... Erik the Team Leader.



Either way, I will still be very cautious and mindful of the warnings.
My goal is still Preparation, Training and going Lite.


I think this guys TROLLING major league, let's let him become another statisic in the GC <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Too stubborn to know better, he'll go no matter what any advice is given to him here.
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

Top
#72978 - 10/25/07 03:54 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
tarbubble Offline
member

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 996
Loc: ca-li-for-ni-a
well, two prior trips down Hance is more experience with it than i have. i hope all goes well, but being prepared for bad weather is vital. fatty foods, backup dry clothing, extra fuel & food. that's a heck of an introduction to the Grand. i don't want to sound ominous or snarky, but i truly hope that you guys don't end up in any accident/rescue statistics.

Top
#72979 - 10/25/07 11:48 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: midnightsun03]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
Thanks for the info.
They kinda look like spikes that you tie onto the bottom of your shoe.

Top
#72980 - 10/26/07 12:00 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: tarbubble]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
tarbubble,

We are still actively seeking more info.

Erik our leader did me another favor by asking his hiking buddies.

".......I've gone on numerous Grand Canyon hikes with these guys. We did the Monument Creek trail 3 years ago and it was a very long trail. New Hance is shorter in distance but it's strenuous because there are very few flat areas. C.H. (first discussion below) is in great shape and an experienced hiker. D.N. is also an experienced Arizona hiker but not in the same cardio shape as Chris."

Basically, Erik forwarded my concern about the trip and these guys had their own opinion about New Hance Trail vs Monument and Hermit Trail.

Some excepts:
Erik... friend is asking about New Hance Trail......how would you briefly describe it?
CH... Unmaintained but well travelled.
Erik... do you like the trail?
Chris... Short and less steep than most trails in the park.
Chris... A good inital GC backcountry hike.
Chris... Yes.
Erik... you think it's less steep? compared to what?
Chris ... Yes, compared to the trails to the west like Hermit. New Hance does not cut down into the Vishnu shist - the canyon is not as deep in the east as it is in the west.
Chris ... Coming out of Monument Creek was much harder than New Hance. We did that in one day, Monument was two hard days.
Erik... so you think you're a geologist....vishnu shist......DN would love that comment
Erik ... Yes....Monument was tough
Chris ... Plus we had DN crying because he was afraid of the dark.
Erik ... he's afraid of the dark and heights.....
Chris ... DN does could not tell a sedimentary rock from a metamorphic or an ignious.
Chris ... Can you?
Erik ... of course
Erik... those are the 3 main types
Chris ... Plus conglomorate...
Erik ... how many times have you hiked the canyon?
Chris ... Hmm
Chris ... 12ish
Chris ... Last question for you...
Chris ... Is DN a JA?
Erik... Hmm
Erik... most definitely

Top
#72981 - 10/26/07 12:16 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Earthling]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
What do you mean by calling me "Trolling"? Is that good or bad?
I will consider that comment as a jest.

You guys brought up a valid concern and I am seriously evaluating both sides of the argument by asking questions.

Heck this thread needs a little bump up with Trollers and their backcountry stupidity.

I am even taking the time to edit and post the info I am getting.
Either way Thank you and everyone else for your concern... really do appreciate it.



Here is another Hiker's opinion:

Dan... here now
Erik... How would you describe New Hance.....I have a friend who is asking about it
Erik... how tough do you think it is?
Dan... is he a wuss like u?
Erik... ha......not
Dan.... i wld say most people can get down without too much trouble...most people would struggles a lot getting out in one day
Erik... I don't remember any cliffs. Nothing that someone would fall off
Dan.... whats his condition?
Erik... never hiked
Erik... never hiked canyon.....probably decent shape
Dan.... no cliffs really just that one part towards the end where the trail is real narrow and the steap rocky part where we all took different routes
Dan.... overweight?
Erik ... 10 - 15 lbs....mabye.....
Dan.... if he can walk it flat without much of a prob then we can struggle through this
Erik... but do you think most people could get out if you hike halfway one day and then the other 1.2 the next morning?
Dan.... ask him if he can walk 9 miles without struggling
Dan.... definitely
Dan.... but depending on his ability it might take a long time
Erik... did you like New Hance better than Monument Creek?
Erik... Monument Creek was the place we hiked to via Hermit Rapids Trail
Dan.... yes..
Erik... but we hiked half way in the dark with our headlamps.....at least Hunkins and I had headlamps.....you just shook in your boots between us
Dan.... and i had to hike another mile to see nothing with chris
Dan.... lol
Erik... but you wanted to do the side trip with Chunkins
Dan.... BS
Erik... lol
Dan.... i liked new hance the best
Dan.... especially first time...remember hearing the river roar
Erik... that';s because you hung out with Jose from NAU
Dan.... great location...sandy area...kayackers
Dan.... lol
Dan.... and hearing chris scream like a bird in the am
Erik... ha...he set up his bivy too close to the Colorado not knowing that they were scheduled to release water from the dam
Dan.... lol..yup
Erik... even Feldman made it up New Hance
Dan.... and he saw a bug
Erik... by himslef and he was a rookie

Top
#72982 - 10/26/07 12:24 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Earthling]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
ugh... everyone has one... an advice that is. hehe..

I am at least weighing my options.
I am also posting it so that you know... I really do have a concern and not being stubborn without facts.

If anything... I get good challenging questions here to ask my Team Leader.
I am new. I don't even know enough to ask him the simple questions or to test his abilities.

Top
#72983 - 10/26/07 06:41 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I do not know where your "leader" is getting his information but there is no Monument Creek trail, unless he is talking about the trail from Monument Creek camp to the river. That trail goes down a gentle wash. The nearest trail access to Monument Creek from the rim is either the Bright Angel trail from the South rim to Indian Gardens and then the Tonto Trail to Monument Creek or the Hermit Creek trail to the Tonto Trail and then along the Tonto Trail to Monument Creek. Also, if he claims that the Hance Trail is gentler than the Hermit, he has either a poor memory or is BS'ing about one or the other. Even if your "leader" has been in the canyon a few times, the rest of the crew sounds more like the Albanian militia preparing for war; you do not sound ready for a safe, pleasant hike at that time of the year.

If this is serious inquiry rather than a troll, would you please look at a map and google a few websites about various GC trails and read up on hiking in the Canyon before you take up any more of our time? You need a much better information base before we can provide any meaningful help. Thanks!
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

Top
#72984 - 10/26/07 08:09 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Pika]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
Pika,

Thanks... you guys really do make me feel welcome here.

The first half of your message is informative about trails, but than it gets ugly.

SORRY, about wasting your time. (What else would you be doing if you are not backpacking? Go on the website to talk about backpacking? Hey, I just got the bug for backpacking, myself.)
I thought this was a forum. Don't forget anybody can get on and register and ask questions even without any base information. IF that is Trolling than maybe that is why this website was created to get more people informed about backpacking. I am here to get informed.

Labeling me a "Troller" is not nice.... even if what I am doing is "Trolling".
Getting information is "Trolling"?
It implies that I am less than... It also implies you are more than... when the only separation between us is knowledge and wisdom about a walk in the park... in the middle of nowhere... in bad weather.... down a canyon... with no help in sight... hehe...

All I am saying is Thank you for your time and please don't get so frustrated with me just because I am not talking at the same level as you. I am learning the terms myself. My friend means well and I came on this site to find additional answers and questions that I didn't even know existed.

If you disagree that is fine. but don't get frustrated.
I am not here to challenge your knowledge or wisdom of the GC.

The stuff I quoted was an Instant Message between my friend (the Team Leader) and his hiking buddies... they probably know the trail they were on wasn't Monument Creek Trail... but maybe that is how they refer it among friends. If they had talked to another Hiker like you maybe they might use the terms that you commonly use.

Thank you for your time and I am deeply appreciative of the time you spend in spreading your knowledge.

Top
#72985 - 10/26/07 08:52 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Imager, the point in calling you 'trolling' is because of the such basic knowledge you're lacking for attempting such a trail. Partly in jest, partly from concern for your lack of apparent understanding of the dangers that this level of trail presents to a newbie in the GC.

The GC is a very unique environment with concern to the weather, water, physicalness of the terrain. Even experienced and multiple visit backpackers encounter trouble there. It's not like you're taking a trip to Myrtle Beach, you dig?

I'm known for being sarcastic here in the forum, more of a tongue in cheek kind of thing. In your case I'm serious that you could endanger the rest of the party, let alone yourself with just one misstep. It's a serious trail with exposure that takes a knowledgable eye to traverse. Just a bit of morning ice, wet soil, loose stone could have you meeting your Maker. Are you really prepared, knowledgable enough, and confident that you can self rescue yourself if the rest of your party is gone? I doubt it, just my opinion.

I have 35 years of backpacking experience and the Hance is the one trail in GC that i have'nt hiked, because I decided the risk is not worth it to me. I've done plenty of risky things with regard to backpacking, sailing, and motorcycle racing; but I refuse to knowlingly put myself at unnecessary risk with regard to exposure. I'm sure the Hance trail has great views, but none that you can't get from another trail with less exposure risk.

Good luck, enjoy your adventure.
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

Top
#72986 - 10/26/07 09:39 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Earthling]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
Earthling,

Thank you for your response.

I am acknowledging the concerns and warnings and I for one is not tongue and cheek about the seriousness of this issue.... and I really do appreciate it and have tried to change the Trail from Hance to Hermit from the knowledge I gained from the experienced people on this site.

Once again, I am at a disadvantage. I have no experience and no crediability and have not claimed anything other than what I am. The well-meaning people like yourself and tarbubble and Pika and others are very gracious in providing some very important information. As a novice I cannot single handedly change expert people's mind without creditials like yours. Hance, I used your information from this site to challenge with a question and they answered back to my satisfaction.

Now, I am curious why there is such a big difference in opinion.
Like this is not even politics or a religious issue.
It is a Trail that both side has gone.
The people that have known me for a few years, says it is ok for me to go.
The people from this site is stating this trail is not for novice.

I don't know what to say.
The three guys that do hike on that trail and around GC says it is more of a physical challenge than skill.

Top
#72987 - 10/26/07 10:09 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Imager, here's how I can equate it for you with an analogy. Since you were Army you know well enough your running ability; you don't know me but want me to go run a race with you. I've run before 'but not too far'. Now do you take me to the local 5k to check me out or do you take me to a 26k <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> The answer should be 5k, so you can observe my running style and see if we'll be compatable as running buddies. Same in backpacking, I need to observe your strengths and weaknesses, if any, with regards to 'trail life' before I invite you to join me on a trip that I know I am prepared for, but you may not be. I have lots of friends, but few who would go backpacking with me knowing my level of hiking vs their own. It's not that they can't hike my hike, their just not into being tortured <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> because I'm 'always ready to go' and rise before the Sun and set up camp frequently in the dark, not for the light-hearted or city types <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You may end up the 'whipping boy' for all that goes wrong on this trip if everyone else is at the same skill level and you can't keep up. They know what to expect, you're going on a crap shoot IMO. There's nothing wrong with beggin' off a trip, I've done it for various reasons and I'm sure I'd do it if I felt uneasy about anything about a trip. 'Drinking buddies' don't necessarliy make the best hiking buddies, note to self.
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

Top
#72988 - 10/26/07 11:11 AM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Imager...

One thing to bear in mind here is that this board is populated with people who can give objective advice about the difficulty of the trail in question. The people who have been giving you advice have been hiking for decades and have lots of trails under their belt to which they can compare the relative difficulty of this trail. Your friends, while perhaps having been down the trail a couple of times, are still basically young bucks who probably haven't had any close calls that they've recognized. It takes experience, not just on the trail in question, but on difficult terrain in a variety of different places, to recognize the significance that one misstep could truly lead to death.

Overdramatic? Perhaps, but this is a public forum read by people from all over the world, and any downplaying of the dangers of a difficult trail on such a forum would be seriously irresponsible. I also feel it is seriously irresponsible of your team leader to put you or anyone else on that trail without first doing several shake-down trips on difficult, but LESS DEADLY terrain. Would you go rock climbing for the first time with someone who insists you can do a 5.10 climb? Or skiing for the first time with someone who says you can do a black diamond trail? And they know you can do this, how? Because they hang out with you and BS with you over beers?

Only you can know what you are capable of, what you're comfortable with, and only YOU can say no to doing something you're not comfortable doing. Save the trail for another time. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. People who can't respect you for standing up for what you feel is right aren't real friends. Period.

MNS
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

Top
#72989 - 10/26/07 12:18 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: midnightsun03]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Point well put MNS <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

Top
#72990 - 10/26/07 12:48 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Imager]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I'm sorry if you were offended by the troll comment. The way the word "troll" is used is to describe a provocative or argumentative post aimed at getting a (hopefully angry) reaction from forum participants. The word had nothing to do with you it was in reference to your posts. That sort of thing happens often enough that most participants are a bit wary. Again, I was mistaken; I apologize.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

Top
#72991 - 10/26/07 01:10 PM Re: backcountry stupidity ? [Re: Pika]
Imager Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Texas
Thank you very much for your apology and especially your time spend on discussion with me. Really really appreciative.... even though I might not follow your wise advice.

Top
Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Bivvy Sack combo Arrangement
by Jim M
10/18/17 01:58 AM
what is the lightest framed backpack around 40L
by toddfw2003
10/16/17 07:23 PM
a worthy challenger to the msr pocket rocket2
by the-gr8t-waldo
10/16/17 01:28 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Napa Fires
by balzaccom
10/11/17 07:43 PM
Backpacking the Ouachita Trail thanksgiving
by toddfw2003
10/05/17 11:54 PM
Rockfalll on El Capitan in Yosemite
by balzaccom
09/28/17 09:47 AM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
alcohol stove comparisons
by Bike_packer
10/03/17 08:56 PM
Can footprint plasticizer harm tent ground-sheet?
by Weston1000
09/10/17 02:24 AM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LivelyLiz, Weve, Tones21, Pasquale, Rahultravel
12423 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com