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#54856 - 07/18/06 08:51 PM Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Im sure many of you have heard of/ read this book.
Its a great book with many topics of discussion and debate but aside from themes and motifs I have this one question:

What do you think Chris carried in his pack aside from some few pounds of rice? What would be the weight he probably carried on average?

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#54857 - 07/31/06 02:07 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp)
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Just read that this book is being made into a movie:

Sean Penn Filming 'Into the Wild' in Alaska
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#54858 - 08/02/06 09:43 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: midnightsun03]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I'm pinning my hopes low.

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#54859 - 08/03/06 10:09 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: billk]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Why is that, Bill?
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#54860 - 08/03/06 09:04 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: midnightsun03]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I've never seen a movie that was nearly as good as the book. I hear they may exist, but I remain doubtful.

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#54861 - 08/04/06 07:15 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp) [Re: midnightsun03]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Timothy Treadwell . . . Alexander Supertramp . . . how many more unique characters are there up there to make a book/movie about?
Suppose next they'll do one about the "The Pilgrims" of Wrangell/St. Elias, that rather large family (who's patriarch mistook himself for God) living on an in-holding in the park. They were trampling on NPS land and got all the land-rights people behind them until the entire, accurate story about this strange-to-say-the-least family came out. Their story would make a great American Tragedy.
_________________________
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(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#54862 - 08/04/06 07:59 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp) [Re: kevonionia]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
How about a movie about the 1000K Alaska Traverse? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

We have no shortage of 'interesting' characters here...
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#54863 - 08/04/06 09:27 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: billk]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
> I've never seen a movie that was nearly as good as the book.

Jaws.

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#54864 - 08/04/06 11:19 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: Hector]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I must admit I didn't read the book, but the movie was pretty formula.

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#54865 - 08/14/06 07:36 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: billk]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I hope the movie was as interesting as the book.

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#54866 - 02/18/07 08:13 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: billk]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I had started readin the book, but after it was less his journey into the wilds and more a "crime scene" type setting, I quit. I'll just stick to Hatchet, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#54867 - 03/26/07 05:18 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: billk]
TwoTrees Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 22
Loc: Jeffersonian
< movie as good as the book... inconceivable!
...the princess bride. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#54868 - 03/27/07 02:23 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
3030
I have to agree with you. I didn't like the book and I did read it start to finish. Its about a stupid arrogant kid who ignored all warnings and without first trying to learn something about a totally new area - one strange enough to kill him - and ventured into it with no respect. It killed him like many before him. What adventure? Wheres the story? Who cares what his mother thought?
I definitely do not want to see a movie about an idiot who dies in the wilderness. Whats this thing about making movies that sensationalise people for being candidates for the Darwin award only they managed to survive?
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#54869 - 07/17/07 08:26 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: Jimshaw]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Regardless of what you think of Chris McCandless, one thing's for certain: he followed his convictions and desire to live the life he wanted, a life free of virtually everything and everyone...something that can't be said about most people.

I think I understand him fairly well. I would've liked to have met him.

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#54870 - 07/18/07 08:03 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra
jshannon Offline
member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 410
Loc: North Texas
I should have done a search..didn't realize Andrea mentioned the movie coming out a dang year ago..lol.
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#54871 - 07/21/07 03:55 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: jshannon]
Gary_N9ZYE Offline
member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Indianapolis, Indiana
Chris McCandless lived (and died) his dreams. While he made an effort to understand how to live in the wild, he failed or chose not to prepare for the challenges he would meet.
_________________________
Gary

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#54872 - 08/20/07 11:11 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra
mockturtle Offline
member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA
Just finished this book last night. While I don't share Krakauer's obvious fascination with the subject [Chris McCandless], I admire and enjoy his writing style [this is the second book I've read by JK.] Toward the end, though, he became almost obsessed with defending McCandless' choices, down to a drawn-out investigation of the seeds he may or may not have eaten which may or may not have poisoned him.

I found the best part of the book to be Krakauer's account of his own Sisyphean attempts at the summit of Devils Thumb. He has a knack for balancing the material with the abstract without exploiting either. I'd like to read his story, as he is a more interesting [IMHO] and worthy adventurer than was McCandless.

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#54873 - 08/20/07 03:58 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: mockturtle]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
I wonder, while reading some of the things folks say about Chris, in how much regard folks would hold John Muir if he'd gotten himself killed hiking around the Sierras in just a coat with biscuits in the pocket...

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#54874 - 08/20/07 04:57 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Hector]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Quote:
I wonder, while reading some of the things folks say about Chris, in how much regard folks would hold John Muir if he'd gotten himself killed hiking around the Sierras in just a coat with biscuits in the pocket...
Well said. I don't think you can every judge someone else with any certainty based on what they are wearing or carrying or doing when they meet their end. All you can do is try to figure out your own plan from what you might see as others mistakes and triumphs, and your own, and then see where it takes you.

I would love to say I could do the same as Chris some day. Not the last bit of course, but most of the rest, and there are far worse things than the last bit even. Anyhow, I've got other adventures in mind, more modest and closer to home, but something. We never know how our lives might end, but we should at have the courage to start living.

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#54875 - 08/21/07 01:01 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Hector]
mockturtle Offline
member

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA
Since your post directly responded to mine, I must ask you to re-read my review. Nowhere was I critical of Chris McCandless, nor did I impugn his motives or his methods. I merely stated my opinion that his story was not particularly interesting.

Perhaps, because he came from a 'well-to-do' family, his experience elicited more coverage than might have been the case had he been some poor Joe, down on his luck, who wandered north in search of his destiny.

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#54876 - 08/21/07 03:56 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: mockturtle]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
Not accusing you of anything at all, I promise. I think his story might have been quite interesting to those who identified with his particular enthusiasm, though. But then, someone out there is even buying turgid romance books, know what I mean? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Takes all kinds.

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#54877 - 08/21/07 04:21 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Hector]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
I think what one gets out of this book depends entirely on the perspective one has while reading it. It isn't an adventure story at all... it is a mental health story that just happened to take the subject of the story into the Alaskan wilderness. I suppose if my brother in law had ben found dead in Alaska instead of turning up alive in Santa Fe NM, 4 months after disapearing from Iowa, he might have been the subject of a book too. Thousands of people take off into "the wilderness" (whether urban or otherwise) every year because of mental health issues... there really was nothing remarkable about Chris aside from the fact that his wanderings took him to Denali National Park. Maybe Krakaur should write a book about the guy who disappeared in Denali NP a couple of summers ago... searchers spent 6 days trying to find him and came up completely empty handed. Oh, but he didn't come from a wealthy family... sorry, I suppose he isn't a worthy subject.

Into the Wild is more about the wilderness of the mind and soul than it is about being smart or dumb about going into the Alaskan wilderness "unprepared."

MNS


Edited by midnightsun03 (08/21/07 04:22 PM)
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#54878 - 08/21/07 04:36 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: mockturtle]
grit Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 207
Loc: Happy Jack, AZ
500 bonus points for being the first person on this site to use the word "impugn". No, I don't want to play Scrabble with you.
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#54879 - 08/21/07 06:17 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
azcanyon Offline
member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 264
mockturtle wrote
Quote:
Perhaps, because [McCandless] came from a 'well-to-do' family, his experience elicited more coverage than might have been the case had he been some poor Joe, down on his luck, who wandered north in search of his destiny.



midnightsun wrote
Quote:
Maybe Krakaur should write a book about the guy who disappeared in Denali NP a couple of summers ago... searchers spent 6 days trying to find him and came up completely empty handed. Oh, but he didn't come from a wealthy family... sorry, I suppose he isn't a worthy subject.





I was mulling these ideas over when I stepped into my neighborhood bar, and who did I see except the man himself: Jon Krakauer. I introduced myself and then steered the conversation towards the _Into the Wild_ rich kid angle. Here's what Krakauer had to say:


Jon Krakauer said
Quote:
It's true--they're on to me. I had wanted to write a book about dead young man in the wilderness for a long time, but I just couldn't find the right subject. Most of them were really poor, reportedly kinda smelly, and frankly not very attractive. Then I heard about Chris McCandless, and it was like striking gold: a wealthy kid, high-school athlete, white, knew how to read. I knew this stuff would pump up sales. I mean, twenty-four grand in his savings account--can you believe it?

Of course, I was a little worried at first about the downside. I mean the way McCandless gave all that money away to charity, and then ditched his car, and then burned the last little bit of his cash. Plus there was the whole philosophy thing, his Thoreauvian rejection of materialism, the Tolstoy-esque embrace of poverty and purity, his love and longing for the natural world. I thought readers might be turned off by all this stuff.

But it turns out readers don't even notice much of that. They pick up on what's important: McCandless was a rich kid, and that's why his story is worthy. I'm thinking of building a franchise around the concept. Like, "Rich Kids Gone Wild," except, you know, different.


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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#54880 - 08/21/07 06:26 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: azcanyon]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
LOL AZ, but to be fair, IIRC, Krakaur didn't choose the subject himself... it was originally an assignment for Backpacker Magazine, but grew too long for an article. At the same time, it was too short for a book, so Krakaur added the bit about the Devil's Thumb to fill space.

Anyway, who knows why Backpacker picked up on the story... IMHO there really is very little of interest to backpackers or armchair adventurers in what really is a story about apparent mental illness. I suspect that the acclaimed and well known adventure author has more to do with why so many people have read this book than the subject himself. One wonders if Joe Schmoe had written the book whether it would have even gotten off the editors desk.
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#54881 - 08/21/07 06:39 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: azcanyon]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
I've got to know, sitting here with bated breath -- or is it baited breath? -- what was Krakauer drinking?
_________________________
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(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#54882 - 08/21/07 06:58 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
azcanyon Offline
member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 264
Outside magazine, not Backpacker. And they didn't make him write it. And they didn't make him have enough interest to write a book.

And...your theory about the Devil's Thumb chapter is just wrong. It was not added as filler. It's taken (mostly) from an essay Krakauer had written prior to knowing anything about McCandless, but it's absolutely essential to the fabric of _ITW_.

You referred to Krakauer being a famous adventure author. The thing is, he wasn't known to anyone except a few magazine industry people (and fervent readers of Outside) until the whole ITW thing blew up.

You've said a few times that McCandless was mentally ill. What are you referring to? Do you mean a specific diagnosis or just like, "that guy was crazy"?

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#54883 - 08/21/07 07:05 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: kevonionia]
azcanyon Offline
member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 264
Quote:
I've got to know, sitting here with bated breath -- or is it baited breath? -- what was Krakauer drinking?
When I walked in it was Miller Light--I called him on it and he was totally embarrassed. A question of manliness, you know. Later we had a couple shots of Jim Beam Black Label with Guinness as a chaser, and everything was made better.

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#54884 - 08/21/07 08:32 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: azcanyon]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Before I reply, I'm curious... do you have any personal experience with mental illness (friend, family member, self)?
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#54885 - 08/22/07 06:56 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
azcanyon Offline
member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 264
Um, sure. Yes.

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#54886 - 08/22/07 08:29 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: azcanyon]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
That's convincing.

Nevermind. It is a very serious subject that impacts the daily lives of millions of people. It is easy to see when you live with it every day... hard to explain when you don't.
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#54887 - 08/22/07 09:22 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
JAK Offline
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Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Well everyone's account of Krakauer has now got me interested in reading the book. Mockturtle's critical review was excellent, and azcanyon's narrative in particular has raised by interest up several notches further. I don't care too much how much of an outdoorsman he is, or what he drinks, though that is all useful background material. But the fact that he may be more than just a little twisted, well, that's good enough for me. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#54888 - 08/22/07 10:52 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
azcanyon Offline
member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 264
I'm sorry you found my answer unconvincing, but it was not tongue-in-cheek. I just felt that your direct question was inappropriately personal in this public context. That's why I didn't elaborate.

I agree that mental illness is a serious condition and issue. My question was about why you think McCandless was mentally ill, and if so, how so?

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#54889 - 08/22/07 11:14 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: azcanyon]
jshannon Offline
member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 410
Loc: North Texas
He was smart, outgoing, charismatic, but he held things in like his anger against his father's polygamy history. He was rebellious, but many college aged kids are. He didn't like taking recommendations from anybody and was very hard-headed. I don't see "for sure" traits of depression, mania, pychosis or personality d/o...but what can we really tell from a book.


Edited by jshannon (08/22/07 11:26 AM)
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#54890 - 08/22/07 11:53 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: jshannon]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
They are subtle, but they are there in the book. He wasn't really old enough for his behavior to be 'diagnosed', but if you've lived with someone (or multiple people) who has gone off on an unexpected "adventure," and they survived it and were later diagnosed with a significant mental illness (like schizophrenia or bipolar, for e.g.), there are just certain signs you start to see that cross the line from being eccentric (or "outside the box") to potentially caused by an undiagnosed mental health issue. People can live with undiagnosed schizophrenia for a long time (my brother in law was in his 30's when he finally reached his breaking point)... although my BIL was always "different," there was absolutely no indication whatsoever that he had anything diagnosable - at least not until he was diagnosed and we started looking backward at all the subtle clues. Since my BIL's "adventure," there have been other members of his extended family (cousins) who have had similar breaks with reality... one disappeared completely for 3 years, but has now made contact with his family (though he hasn't come home yet). I can't remember the source for this, but remember hearing more than once that many of America's homeless are people who are battling mental health issues, and being homeless has nothing to do with being lazy or not wanting to work, but simply being unable to conform to society's expectations. There is nothing wrong with that - everyone is entitled to live the life they choose to live. My only point is that "Into the Wild" is not about a wilderness adventure at all, it is about someone who chose to walk away from society and who just happened to be drawn to a large wilderness area instead of a large urban area. I don't recall getting any feeling whatsoever that Chris intended to return to society at any point in his life.

MNS
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#54891 - 08/22/07 12:40 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
Quote:
My only point is that "Into the Wild" is not about a wilderness adventure at all, it is about someone who chose to walk away from society and who just happened to be drawn to a large wilderness area instead of a large urban area.

But that's kinda by definition going to be a wilderness adventure.

But what, really, is so wrong about walking away from society now and then? Remember, Chris did return to a society of his liking from time to time. I'm unconvinced that just because someone follows their dream with the passion of youth that we should call them crazy.

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#54892 - 08/22/07 01:29 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: azcanyon]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
"The thing is, he wasn't known to anyone except a few magazine industry people (and fervent readers of Outside) until the whole ITW thing blew up."

Pardon me if my dates are off on this, but I first knew about Krakauer from Into Thin Air, which was (I believe) published a couple of years before Into the Wild. If it weren't for the TV broadcast of Into Thin Air, I think many people would never have noticed Into the Wild. I noticed it because I knew of Krakauer from his Everest summit, which would put him into the category of famous adventure author. When I first looke at it, I even thought it might be a sequal to Into Thin Air

As for the whole issue of mental illness, I work every day with emotionally diturbed youth. Some have severe anger management issues, depression, bipolar disorder (which if they were older would be diagnosed as schizophrenia more than likely), oppositional-defiant disorder, severe attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder, higher functioning autism, etc. Many of McCandless's traits fit a pattern consistent with a number of my kids, the chief exception being that he was old enough to step out and make his own choices. But if he were interviewed and assessed by a licensed practitioner, it is reasonable he might be diagnosed with some of the more common emotional and psychological disabilities I routinely work with.

The idea of donating all worldly possessions could be a way of refuting the standards of his society. Or it could be the common act before one commits suicide. It is hard to tell.

If I were diagnosed, I'm sure a psychologist would have a field day with all my ideosyncracies. When I was 24 I was jumping out of moving planes, blowing stuff up, and playing with WAY too much live ammo. The only thing that kept me from getting myself blown up, or frozen to death, or dead of some communicable disease contracted from local women, or any number of other likely nasty endings was the fear of accidently taking some fellow Marines with me and the hand of Providence.

Was I mentally ill? From certain perspectives, yes, I probably was. Certainly I was depressed after a string of bad relationships. Certainly I was young enough to find incredible joy from just barely escaping something that SHOULD have killed me. Looking back, I would definitely say I was crazy. I guess it really depends on how you define mental illness. You could make the case with me. You could do the same for McCandless.
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#54893 - 08/22/07 05:22 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
jshannon Offline
member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 410
Loc: North Texas
It was definitely weird how McCandless knew he wanted to go on his adventure yet he cried and would tell people he may never return from his trip. He knew he may die from an adventure that he didn't entirely prepare for and didn't want to hear even Alaskan local's warnings about equipment, IIRC. Supposedly, that kind of risk-taking is what Krakhauer (?sp) saw in himself.
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#54894 - 08/22/07 05:26 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Hector]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Quote:
But that's kinda by definition going to be a wilderness adventure.
That's not how I, personally, define a wilderness adventure.

There is nothing wrong with walking away from society now and then. What makes the difference between the need some people have for taking a break (or seeking extreme adventure) and someone who is not having a 'normal' response to society is that most people still have ties back in society that they look forward to getting back to when the adventure is over. Families, associates, friends, lovers... those are our ties to 'normal' humanity. Some of us can only handle a few connections at a time. Others can live full, robust social lives and still be ok when they take the occassional break from the norm. Most people just don't go breaking their ties to their social network when they take off on one of their adventures. Chris made connections along the way, but he broke those ties when he moved on. That is generally a mental health red flag.

Bearpaw... you aren't crazy dude. If anything your behavior was a reaction to your situation, but I suspect you never fully lost touch with reality. As long as you weren't doing the bidding of the voices in your head... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

MNS
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#54895 - 08/22/07 06:32 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: jshannon]
jshannon Offline
member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 410
Loc: North Texas
I am no psychologist but there must be some connection between poor father-son relationships and risk-taking behavior in young men? Need to look it up. Also, it seems we have seen extreme sports become more prevalent in the last 10 to 20 years. Could that have anything to do with a more dysfunction in the family? Just thinking out loud.
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#54896 - 08/22/07 07:07 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Bearpaw]
azcanyon Offline
member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 264
Quote:
Pardon me if my dates are off on this, but I first knew about Krakauer from Into Thin Air, which was (I believe) published a couple of years before Into the Wild.

No pardon necessary, but the dates are off. Krakauer's original article in _Outside_ was January of 1993. The book _Into the Wild_ was published in January 1996. _Into Thin Air_ was April of 1997.

I appreciated your compassionate thoughts, though, and I wanted to say that I haven't by any means ruled out the possibility that McCandless was mentally ill. I just don't want to jump to conclusions. In particular, I would regret people pinning a label on him that precludes us from engaging with the full and messy complexity of his real life.

In a way, the book isn't even about Chris McCandless. I think what makes it an outstanding story is Krakauer's frank account of his own ghosts and passions, as well as his profound empathy with a young man he never met.

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#54897 - 08/22/07 09:23 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
Bearpaw Offline
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"As long as you weren't doing the bidding of the voices in your head... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />"

Hey, I have my most fun when I do what the voices in my head tell me. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
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#54898 - 08/23/07 05:57 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Bearpaw]
JAK Offline
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Posts: 2569
I'm not sure how mental health issues neccessarily changes the story any more than what his physical abilities and disabilities might have been. Perhaps I'm wrong, but we are all somewhat crazy just as we are all somewhat adventurous, both to varying degrees. I am sure there might be some hard lines that can be drawn here and there but there are also many shades of grey, and it is all so complexly mixed and multidimensional that even professionals have difficulty understanding and diagnosing and treating such matters, though I'm sure they do their best, and in many cases they do very well.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm getting at. I guess what I'm saying is whether or not someone like Vincent Can Gough or Ernest Hemmingway or Jon Krakauer or Chris McCandless might be a little crazy or totally insane doesn't change the art. It might change our understanding, but it doesn't change, or diminish, the art. Also, I don't see the significance of him lacking any intention to return to society, other than making it a more compelling adventure. I don't see that as an indication of being any more or any less sane. Our society is pretty crazy after all. Moses had no intention of returning either.

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#54899 - 08/23/07 03:54 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
Hector Offline
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Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
Quote:
That's not how I, personally, define a wilderness adventure.

If you walk away from society into a large wilderness area, surely you'd be hard pressed NOT to have a wilderness adventure! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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#54900 - 08/23/07 04:08 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Bearpaw]
JAK Offline
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Registered: 03/19/04
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Quote:
"As long as you weren't doing the bidding of the voices in your head... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />"

Hey, I have my most fun when I do what the voices in my head tell me. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
From your avatar you've still got that crazy look in your eyes too. Kind of crazy that would make me feel quite comfortable sharing a trail though, and hearing lots more about what those voices in your head have been telling you. I haven't seen all that you have seen but who knows, maybe your voices and my voices might know some of the same people. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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#54901 - 08/23/07 04:11 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: JAK]
JAK Offline
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Frankly, dismissing the adventures of people on the AT and PCT and such places on account of being more than just a little crazy would be rather like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500.

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#54902 - 08/23/07 04:24 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: JAK]
JAK Offline
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Posts: 2569
I did a lot of competitive sailing when I was younger, at the national level and at the international level. I was never amongst the very best, but I new the very best and got to the point where I could see the very best, up close where it mattered, on the race course as well as off. Frankly, we were all a little crazy at that level, and the very best were perhaps the craziest. I never new Paul Elvstrom, but from what I've heard that man was totally insane. Most survived those issues during and subsequent to their adventure years. Some did not, including one of my dear friends. But I would never discount their abilities or achievements because of any mental illness on their part, whether real or perceived. This one was given at my friend's eulogy, after he jumped from that bridge when perhaps he should have just kept sailing, despite those telling him to stop and move on with life.


Sea-Fever

I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by;
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's shaking,
And a gray mist on the sea's face, and a gray dawn breaking.

I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.

I must go down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way, where the wind's like
a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover,
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over.

John Masefield

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#54903 - 09/07/07 01:02 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: JAK]
Earthling Offline
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Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Mns your post poignantly point out the fralities of the human Spirit and the places it can take someone. BeaarPaw and I have similiar histories and wanderings so to me he seems normal <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jak, you and I might have crossed circles in my younger days as I did quite a bit of extensive sailing myself. Mostly in New England, Newport RI and the like, but also out of DownEast ME. I started out small and made my way up through the 12 meters, at one point helming the good ship, 'Intrepid', before I called it quits in the racing circles. I match raced DC a few times and even got the best of him once, and a fair number of starts on him too, but alas, it was'nt 'my show'.

It ended with me searching the North Atlantic for a friend, and mentor of mine, named Mike whose boat I helped rig for the 'Around the World Challenge'. After much searching we found the vessel but never recovered his body. RIP Mike, Fair Seas to Thee <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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#54904 - 11/27/07 08:49 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: midnightsun03]
2brnot2b Offline
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Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 22
Quote:
IMHO there really is very little of interest to backpackers or armchair adventurers in what really is a story about apparent mental illness. I suspect that the acclaimed and well known adventure author has more to do with why so many people have read this book than the subject himself. One wonders if Joe Schmoe had written the book whether it would have even gotten off the editors desk.


One, what do we know about the interests of backpackers/adventurers? Can their interests be known, guessed, or summarily proscribed? Clearly there is enough interest in the book to make it a best seller (NY Times).

Two, pinning Chris M.'s behavior on mental illness is quite an unfounded assumption. He was different, a non-conformist, and in many ways a rebel. He was young, unpredictable, and perhaps eccentric, but saying he was mentally ill is going too far as you yourself admit it in a later post when you say that he was undiagnosable at that age. I think we are too quick to label people as mentally ill. We should err on the side of tolerance.

Personality analysis using a Myers-Briggs profile reveals that many people are:
1. introverted (vs. extroverted) and focus their attention on the inner world of ideas and impressions
2. "feeling" and "make decisions based on values and subjective evaluation" (vs. "thinking" or relying on logic and objective analysis)
3. "perceiving", who prefer being flexible and spontaneous (vs. "judging" which is defined as preferring planned and organized approaches)
4. Intuitive, defined as taking information from patterns and possibilities (rather than focusing on the outer world, or "sensing")

Granted, I don't know how Chris M. would have scored on a personality profile. Also, one is free to argue that some personality traits may be counterproductive in risk-taking scenarios, but psychology can easily account for Chris M.'s behavior without unnecessarily (and without foundation) labeling him mentally ill. One could also account for his behavior by giving him the benefit of the doubt and, if you want to use a label, try "spiritual."

Three, you wonder if the book, if written by someone else, "would have gotten off the editors desk"... are you kidding me? This book is on many high school AP curricula and college curricula because, besides being well written, it deals with many of the same great themes that predominate much of American Literature: the importance of the individual (vs. society), the American relationship to nature as explored by Thoreau, Bret Harte, Twain, Emerson, William James (and many others), and the ongoing influence of American Romanticism and Transcendentalism. I see more than one doctoral thesis opportunity here... perhaps an analysis of Into The Wild as it relates to the history of "environmental" literature.

Of course, not everybody will like the book, but it can not be easily dismissed as fluff. There is surely enough meat on the bones of this story to make it part of a high protein diet for the mind.


Edited by 2brnot2b (11/27/07 10:08 AM)

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#54905 - 12/07/07 06:10 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: mockturtle]
kevonionia Offline
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Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Resurrecting this dead-soldier-of-a-thread, I just finished Into the Wild, after having been given it by a friend via mail last week. Have not seen the movie, but will wait for the rental DVD, soon to be out after Christmas, no doubt.

I, unlike mockturtle, found the diversion chapter(s) of Krakauer's own Devils Thumb escapade just that, diversive. Everyone has a reason for writing, and I found Krakauer's rather elaborate description of his youthful adventure as a sort of author's hijacking of another's biography to somehow relate or equate Chris's and his adventure and found it a bit too much. Krakauer could have summed up what he did on Devil's Thumb in 2 paragraphs in "Into the Wild," or turned it into 3 chapters in another book about himself.

But I was still thoroughly captivated by the book. For Krakauer to have gained access to the family to find out what dynamics were going within the McLandess's home certainly shows that Krakauer is a very decent person, or they surely would have told him to get lost.

Naivity and happenstance did poor Alex in. One person stumbling upon that bus in July or early August and they would no doubt be the recipient of a periodic Supertramp postcard and we would never have read the book.

Krakauer makes reference near the end to the "small stature" complex of Chris McLandess. And, of course, I think of one of my favorite persons of smaller stature, the other Chris -- Chris Townsend. Their differences are apparent. Chris T. knew what he is doing when he hiked the Canadian Rockies south to north, so instead of there being one book about the late him, we've got a library of books about his adventures written by him.

Despite my small criticism above, I love to read all that Jon Krakauer writes. I agree with mockturtle, JK is as interesting as the characters he writes about.
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#54906 - 12/08/07 07:29 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: kevonionia]
mockturtle Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 251
Loc: WA
IMHO, Krakauer writes best in the first person and I found his rendering of this irrelevant segment superior to that of rest of the book. I do agree with you that it was a diversion and not a parallel.

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#54907 - 12/16/07 02:28 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Hector]
Jimshaw Offline
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Hector,
The obvious answer is - John Muir didn't die doing what Chriss did <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. John Muir knew what he was doing, and chris was another unequipped ill-prepared kid from the big city who ignored all local advice and died in the bush because he lacked the skills and knowledge required. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I wonder how many people are romanticising his way of life. He died... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And the book sucked too.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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#54908 - 12/16/07 03:06 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Jimshaw]
Hector Offline
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Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
> The obvious answer is - John Muir didn't die doing what Chriss did .

And that is the only pertinent part of your comments. Had Muir died in his often ill-advised adventures, you'd view him much as you now do Chris (if you knew of him at all). If Chris had lived a long life and written about his adventures and close-calls, you might venerate him as some sort of Muir-like guru someday (whether both or either were crazy or not).

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#54909 - 12/16/07 05:12 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Hector]
phat Offline
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Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Horsecookies.

It's not so much the fact that he died as to *How* he died. Muir may have gone into areas somewhat minimally equipped by today's standards, but from reading his biography, usually spent some time in the
area first and was aquianted with what he was getting into and what to expect - no matter what the season. While Muir very well could have died in an accident or unusual situations, he was prepared
for what he would face and had the knowledge to deal with where he was. John Muir very well might have bought it in his travels - but probably not from Ignorance.
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#54910 - 12/17/07 03:52 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: phat]
GrumpyGord Online   content
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Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 846
Loc: Michigan
If you call swinging around in the top of a tree during a lightning storm being prepared, then JM was prepared. Starting out with just some bread and tea, scrambling across scree slopes and across ridges, having no shelter and having to stay up all night to tend a fire for warmth etc. does not look like a prepared hiker to me. I have a lot of respect for JM but he is not exactly a role model for preparedness. He could very easily have died during many of his trips.

Quote:

Horsecookies.

It's not so much the fact that he died as to *How* he died. Muir may have gone into areas somewhat minimally equipped by today's standards, but from reading his biography, usually spent some time in the
area first and was aquianted with what he was getting into and what to expect - no matter what the season. While Muir very well could have died in an accident or unusual situations, he was prepared
for what he would face and had the knowledge to deal with where he was. John Muir very well might have bought it in his travels - but probably not from Ignorance.

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#54911 - 12/17/07 09:23 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: GrumpyGord]
Earthling Offline
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Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Granted John Muir was'nt the picture of the 'prepared hiker' by today's standards. Back in the day folks were much more casual about their wanderings, and waxings IMO. Folks were'nt exposed to Fox's 'Most Dangerous Animals V' or whatever, every week on TV; so they went out ignorantly at times. John Muir spent his life trying to let folks know what was special about being outdoors and it has furthered our cause for conservation as an end result.

Chris was a spoiled rich kid, who, with money out the wazu could'nt make it in sight of the city limits. I have to agree that he could have availed himself of local knowledge and maybe lived to tell the tale. As far as folks doing what he did, they'll be plenty of wack jobs/newbies to follow in his footsteps <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> You can tell the ones' who are looking for 'instant' info on just about every topic...as if their butts are on fire <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Same ones who pee themselves in their sleeping bags when they hear a 'deer' for the first time at night <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Phat, ya' know what I'm talking about eh? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Can you say Greenhorn <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#54912 - 12/17/07 09:38 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: GrumpyGord]
JAK Offline
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Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
People had somewhat of an advantage growing up in the days before motorcars and central heating, but there have always been stories about greenhorns that have made mistakes; people getting lost in the woods and panicking, or ill prepared for storms, or caught in one as part of everyday making a living back then. Then and now I think its mostly a matter of people being unlucky before learning what they needed to know, or skilled people doing what they love until probability catches up with them. This story is a bit different, because it unfolded a bit slower than most, and its a combination of the two, plus the effects of long periods of solitude I think. When you decide to do things less normal you tend not follow norms, even the neccessary ones. It happened far more often in the past though. Today it just happens to be more of a recreational hazard than an occupational hazard or matter of everyday life. It wasn't all that long ago that winter was always expected to take its toll. It still does today, but mostly on highways. People don't write books on those fatalities. Even news stories rarely go into the details.

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#54913 - 12/17/07 09:53 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: phat]
Hector Offline
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Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
> It's not so much the fact that he died as to *How* he died

And had Muir died swinging from a tree in a lightning storm, for one example, you'd be talking about him now instead of Chris, assuming you even knew who he was. Muir zigged, Chris zagged, if you know what I mean. Very often the difference between guru and fool is purely luck.

I'm dropping this discussion -- people are making up their minds based on things other than facts on both sides, I suspect, so there's no use arguing. Besides, it's more fun to go for a walk. You may consider me fool rather than guru with my blessing. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#54914 - 12/17/07 11:20 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Hector]
Pika Offline
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Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1726
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Chris McCandless was introverted, young, bright, idealistic and naive. He was also unlucky in some of his decisions and thus came to an untimely end. In my years working with college students in the natural resources area, I came in contact with a lot of young people like Chris McCandless. I enjoyed their enthusiasm and curiosity far more than I enjoyed the standard "what do I need to know to pass the final" students.

If Chris McCandless had lived, he may have eventually become someone well known for his creativity in some field; like Jon Krakauer. Or, he may have finished his life in obscurity. We'll never know.

I look at people like him as being a lot like Henry Thoreau, John Muir, Everett Reuss or "Pete" Starr. They too, were introverted, young, bright, idealistic and naive. John Muir did some solo climbs he was lucky to survive. Everett Reuss just disappeared and Pete Starr died doing the same sort of climbing that John Muir lived to write about. Thoreau died of tuberculosis. But they had a lot in common. In my mind, they all shared the same sort of questing personality and disenchantment with conventional society that I like to think I have. Did they always "know what they were doing"? Probably not; but do any of us really? To me, the spirit of their endeavors was the important thing; not the skill or knowledge or publicity with which it was pursued.

Did I enjoy the book? Yes, I did, although I found it to be more that a little unsettling.


Edited by Pika (12/17/07 11:23 AM)

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#54915 - 12/17/07 12:28 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp)
Trailrunner Offline
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Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
I read the book some time ago and I just saw the movie yesterday. I feel for his family and the needless loss of such a young life saddens me.

But this article sums up my opinion. The only exception is, based on his apparent passion for life, I don't think Chris really wanted to die.

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#54916 - 12/17/07 01:00 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Earthling]
phat Offline
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Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
Phat, ya' know what I'm talking about eh? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Can you say Greenhorn <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I guess as someone who butchers his own game, it rubs me the wrong way when someone starves to death when they can manage to whack a caribou, but doesn't know enough basic field dressing to quickly get the meat off the bones and smoking so it spoils. Not to mention everything else.. That's what I call dying of Ignorance.
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#54917 - 12/17/07 10:54 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Pika]
billk Offline
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Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Pika, as usual, your comments are intelligent and insightful. Wouldn't surprise me if you've got some of that mental illness yourself <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Edited by billk (12/17/07 10:54 PM)

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#54918 - 12/18/07 06:16 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: billk]
jshannon Offline
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Loc: North Texas
lmao
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#54919 - 12/18/07 09:50 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: phat]
Earthling Offline
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Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Like I said Phat, greenhorn! I've seen the same thing in spike camps where the guy with all the whizbang guns 'n gear does'nt know how to dress out the game he's killed <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I think that a course in it should be mandatory in gun classes for hunting licenses; just so game is'nt wasted by folks who don't know <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> If you're too sqeamish to dress your game, then you have no business shooting it in the first place IMO. I'd say a good 80% or better of the US population has never seen, let alone slaughtered, their own meat or even fish <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
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#54920 - 12/18/07 06:28 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Earthling]
phat Offline
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Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
Like I said Phat, greenhorn! I've seen the same thing in spike camps where the guy with all the whizbang guns....


Trouble is they also can't shoot worth crap either usually - exacerbated by the whizbangness (or should I say extrabangness) of the calibre they're shooting since everyone knows that if you shoot at a critter with a gun that doesn't take your shoulder off, you must have the smallest male equipment on the planet, and all the wee little forest creatures will laugh at your insiginficant equipment and make you
feel all girly...

Forget just dressing it.. Butcher it too. I haven't found a butcher yet that'll treat wild game with
any respect. I just do it myself. tastes better after.
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#54921 - 12/18/07 06:43 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: phat]
Jimshaw Offline
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Speakin of Girly, now yer dressing up dead animals? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Geez guys.

I remember the squirrel I hit with a 180 grain boat tail from a 30-30. I didn't have to "dress it". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> There was 4 legs, the back, a tail and 4 clawed feet. I still have the tail. Just remove feet and tail and hold over fire on stick. That was in Alaska where meat was hard to get, and man are alaskan squirrels lean!

A real man hunts with a .22 looooong rifle... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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#54922 - 12/18/07 06:58 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Jimshaw]
JAK Offline
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Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I am going to try snaring rabbits this winter. I would like to try squirrel with a 22. Also rabbits with a 22. I understand the best time to shoot rabbits here (Varying Hare) is in an Eastern Cedar grove after a few frosts but before any snow, as they are then white against the brown backdrop. But I really want to try snaring first. So far I have eaten deer, moose, caribou, rabbits but I haven't shot anything yet, other than partridge. I don't intend to go after large game until I have more experience with the smaller game, and get a larger fridge. Feel like a kid starting life over. I think another advantage of butchering your own meat, bigger stuff I mean, is that you are less likely to get cross-contamination. Just a theory. Beer is also easier that way when first starting out.

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#54923 - 12/18/07 07:07 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: JAK]
JAK Offline
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Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I vaguely recall reading something about sub-sonic and super-sonic and air temperature in winter but I can't remember what the relevance was. Interesting stuff though. Anyhow, my buddy told me an interesting thing about snaring Varying Hare is that when the temperature gets down around 0F you have to make the loop bigger because the bunny's ears are frozen. Interesting eh. I wonder how they can let them freeze and thaw without falling off like a true rabbits would. The other thing he mentioned was to set the snare higher off the ground when there has been enough snow that there is no longer food near the ground as the rabbit will then run with his head up higher. What else? Oh yeah. Not so much luck on a full moon as they can see the snare. Much to learn from such activities I think, that you might not learn about these fellow creatures otherwise.

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#54924 - 12/18/07 07:36 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Jimshaw]
phat Offline
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Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
Speakin of Girly, now yer dressing up dead animals? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Geez guys.


Of course we dress 'em.. you have do that when you Hunt Moose <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Quote:

I remember the squirrel I hit with a 180 grain boat tail from a 30-30. I didn't have to "dress it". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> There was 4 legs, the back, a tail and 4 clawed feet. I still have the tail. Just remove feet and tail and hold over fire on stick. That was in Alaska where meat was hard to get, and man are alaskan squirrels lean!


A couple years ago my son and daughter were along and we'd spent the morining kicking bush, and on the way back my son and I put up a grouse that sat and looked at us. No .22 along as my son likes birds, and wouldn't shoot any. I had no such compunctions as lemon roughed grouse works reall good in camp. Now I know *exactly* where the 'ol .06 will go at 10 meters so I put the scope an inch over it's head and BANGO -- bird does the flop flop flop - just like they do when you take the head off. My son (who was of course saying "miss miss miss") says "darn". I walked up to pick up the bird and was never so suprised as to have the thing suddenly sit up and look at me right at my feet, then fly off! right from me feet!

I've shot tons of grouse like that, near as I can tell I must have just missed his head and the sonic crack from the bullet going by concussed him.. If he'd woken up 2 seconds later I'd have been wringing his neck.. Ya should have heard my son cheer as that bird went up...

Anyway, I'm sure I couldn't repeat that shot if I tried, but I'm kinda glad it turned out that way <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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#54925 - 12/18/07 10:15 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: phat]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Phat
Please forgive me <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I was target shooting in the Sierras with my .44 super blackhawk. I saw a grouse in the bushes so I switched to snake shot and shot the grouse at about 30 feet on the ground, but it ran into the bushes. Anyway I ended up chasing it and shooting 4 times (hitting it each time) until a round at point blank range killed it, I should have wrung its neck instead, but I was so shocked that a 1 pound bird took 4 .44 loads. The bird was full od lead shot - couldn't eat it afterwards.

The squirrel was above me at close range in a tree and I put the sights on his ear.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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#54926 - 12/19/07 05:12 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Jimshaw]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
And that Jim is why I shoot a .22 over under shotgun. If I see a bigger critter it gets the big load, something smaller gets the .22. I still hunt small game with a slingshot, rabbit, squirrel, etc. No lead = more food value.

I'm with you Phat, I swear I hit a B'quail dead in the head one day; walked over to it and it got up like a drunk and wobbled around then headed straight for the briar patch never to be seen again. Of course it was a marble shot with the ol' slingshot, but still <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, the bigger the caliber the farther I stay away from THOSE type hunters. If you place your shot properly you don't need a safari rifle caliber IME <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
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#54927 - 12/19/07 06:53 PM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Earthling]
Tango61 Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 931
Loc: East Texas Piney Woods

Earthling,
Your story about the quail reminded me of a time I was hunting pheasant. I had shot one (I thought) and saw him go done about 30-40 yards away. I walked over and found him in some heavy cornstalk brush (still alive). I reached down to grab him and and he exploded out of that brush flapping and cackling. Scared the pooh out of me! I pointed my finger at him, shouted BANG, and said to my buddy, "There flies a dead bird".

I don't know if I had barely winged him or what, but he flew strong and kept on going.

What a day that was! I was kidded about that shot all weekend.

Tango

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#54928 - 12/20/07 09:15 AM Re: Into the Wild [Re: Tango61]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
That'll do it! You probably 'feathered it' as we say in the East; and the concussive stunned him momentarily....then WHOOSH! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Sadly, the ground nesters like ringtail and bobwhite have diminished greatly IME in the NE since the late 1970's <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I think cold damp Springs, and tons more feral critters have led to their demise.
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#54929 - 03/04/08 09:16 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
My son and i went to see the movie the other day and, lo and behold, my boy called it : " Dad...he was a spoiled moron, but i can understand why he did it. Just not the WAY he did it". This from a kid who has told everyone that he's been " dragged into the woods since birth"...against his will . Makes me feel like i did an o.k. job ...so far <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> As for what he carried in his pack? Probably the same as in his head...air! He lived off the generosity of others until his luck ran out in a big way.


Edited by bigfoot2 (03/06/08 10:09 AM)
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#54930 - 03/05/08 06:22 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: bigfoot2]
DayStar Offline
member

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Dad...he was a spoiled moron

Pretty well sums up what I think him, 'cept I'd use a few more adjectives in addition to moron

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#54931 - 03/05/08 07:34 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: DayStar]
BobEFord Offline
member

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 72
Loc: SE AZ
I just reread this tale again after about 6 years in prep for watching the DVD.

Chris was definitely carrying over 45 pounds.

Great author, great book, rivetting story in my opinion.

Krakauer could tell bin Laden's life and Christians would argue he was a hero.

Krakauer would probably be interested in continuting his series on polygamist themes with an Osama biography anyway.

Unfortunately, poor Chris was a major wack job - not even considering his actions that led to his final demise.

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#54932 - 03/15/08 08:25 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: bigfoot2]
movingwalls Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 6
I dont think Chris was a spoiled moron...

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#54933 - 03/15/08 08:31 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: movingwalls]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
I do.
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#54934 - 07/19/08 02:42 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: BobEFord]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1153
Loc: Florida panhandle
I hate to resurrect an old thread and this reply isn't aimed at anyone in particular.


Last weekend I watched the Sean Penn docu-drama and this afternoon I watched the Ron Lamothe documentary. Both interesting. So I'm thinking maybe I should read the book. You know, act the the educated-beyond-my-intelligence person that I am.

Is there something substantial in the book not covered in the DVDs?

Is there a difference between the 1996 and 2007 editions of the book?

Thanks.


PS I wish I had been more aware of this in January. I went dogsledding with an outfitter located on Stampede Road. I probably was within 20 miles of the bus.

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#54935 - 07/20/08 07:10 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: PerryMK]
BobEFord Offline
member

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 72
Loc: SE AZ
I just watched the hollywood version last night for the first time. I did not see a documentary.

I would not call the hollywood true to the book.

I would say the additions in the movie were the more prominent aspects relative to the book. I doubt they did more research, so expect those are just B S.

The greatest difference for me was the meagerness of the character development in the movie and not presenting the full story of the determined cause of death.

It did not occur to me that the death site would now be a tourist destination, but that makes complete sense. Probaly have an annual gathering.

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#54936 - 07/21/08 08:55 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp)
alanwenker Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 812
For the first time I just read this post in it's entirety.

There are many questions we'll never know the answers to in regards to Chris's death. That said, for all of us with vastly more wilderness experience than Chris, few of us would survive as long in the bush with as little as he took with him into the bush. Beyond the possibility of mental illness, beyond being naive and a rich, spoiled moron, Chris had something going for him that allowed him to survive for as long as he did with as little as he had along with him. I do have a certain amount of respect for that fact.

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#54937 - 07/21/08 07:51 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp) [Re: alanwenker]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Well, to be honest, a sheer belief in one's own survival can have an incredible impact on one's ability to survive. Whether real or delusional, Chris believed that he would survive his adventure, and until the very end never had any reason to believe he wouldn't.

Apparently the site is a 'pilgrimmage site' for tourists, for reasons I'll never understand.

MNS
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#54938 - 07/23/08 05:19 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: midnightsun03]
jshannon Offline
member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 410
Loc: North Texas
Andrea, I thought Alaskan "officials" were going to remove the bus from that area and place it somewhere close to a populated area so tourists would not be at risk in going on a pilgrimage to the original site?
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#54939 - 07/23/08 10:00 PM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertra [Re: jshannon]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
No plans that I'm aware of, and there was recently an article about it in the paper.

MNS
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#54940 - 07/25/08 04:52 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp)
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I'm sure that when he started his journey, his pack was heavy with hopes and dreams. As his adventure progressed and towards the end, his pack emptied of hope and the dreams were long gone by then.
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#54941 - 07/25/08 04:57 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp) [Re: midnightsun03]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
If you've ever been to Graceland (the home of Elvis) and seen people sobing at his grave, you might understand why that site is popular. Myself, I just know that Elvis has left the building. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#54942 - 07/25/08 08:43 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp) [Re: chaz]
alanwenker Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 812
I've been to Graceland and although I did not cry while there, the visit reaffirmed my belief that you can't buy good taste.

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#54943 - 09/22/08 12:17 AM Re: Into the Wild (The Story of Alexander Supertramp) [Re: alanwenker]
intrek38 Offline
member

Registered: 11/29/03
Posts: 430
Loc: Hesperia, Calif
I think as a movie it was very well put together and the music really fit well. We may never know what was going though his head but I'm sure he must have enjoyed some awesome freedom from this sometimes draining society we live in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRUGvArWXLk

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