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#199596 - 11/28/17 11:26 AM What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
TL;DR:
I think there's a version of Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (aka Dyneema/Spectra) fabric that is woven and is 100% UHMWPE instead of a composite like [what used to be called] Cuben Fiber. I need to get my hands on some. What is it called? And, where can I get it?



The Long Version:

I opted to post here instead of the DIY subforum, because this isn't camping related, but someone here should definitely know about these specialized fabrics.

My 10 year old son, who has special needs, is chewing, ripping, and destroying his shirts. When the weather was warm, we just let him go without a shirt at home, but now that it's getting cool, he's going through 1 or more shirts PER DAY! Most of what he's destroyed has been hand-me-downs, but obviously, we can't keep this up; it's going to get very expensive very fast!

So, my thought was to make him a collar out of something with extreme abrasion and cutting resistance. I think dyneema fits the bill, but when I looked up "Dyneema Fabric" on ripstop by the roll, this was the new name for Cuben, which is a non-woven composite. That's not what I need; I need pure woven UHMWPE. Kevlar might work in a pinch, but UHMWPE would be better.

Does anyone know where I can get a fabric like this? Or, do you at least know what it's called so I can do a web search for it?

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#199597 - 11/28/17 11:20 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2860
Loc: Portland, OR
Can't help you with the fabric. Sorry. Can say I have a 31 year old daughter with a different set of special needs, so I've got an inkling what you're dealing with. Good luck with the shirt problem.

P.S. Remember to take care of yourself, too. Both my wife and I find that hiking, camping and backpacking are really potent restorers of sanity, calm and happiness.

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#199600 - 11/29/17 11:10 AM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
BZH Online   content
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 848
Loc: Torrance, CA
Gridstop?

EDIT.... hmmm I guess grid stop just has Dyneema grid in it. I don't think I've ever seen anything like what you are talking about. Cuben is woven dyneema but it is laminated. I think without the laminate it would fall apart. I am wondering why you feel this would be the best choice?


Edited by BZH (11/29/17 11:15 AM)

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#199601 - 11/29/17 12:57 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
JustWalking Online   content
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 128
Loc: PNW
I've never used Ali Express before, but they do sell it: UHMWPE

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#199602 - 11/29/17 01:43 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6400
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I have a special needs grandson who has always refused to wear long pants--he wears only shorts, preferably shorts made out of a soft knit material (like sweatshirts). He did manage to wear long pants for his recent 7th grade band concert, where they were required, but insisted on changing back to shorts right after the concert. We were, of course, very proud of him for overcoming this problem, even temporarily, and praised him to the skies.

Would there be a fabric or style or motivation that might work for your young man? One question is, is the shirt itself uncomfortable for him (like my grandson's long pants), or does he just need something to chew on? If it's the shirt itself that bothers him, I'd think that a material he couldn't rip would be even more uncomfortable (and might have to be of metal mesh). Of course he has to wear something to go outside in the cold, but could he continue to go shirtless indoors?

Just throwing out some ideas here. Have you consulted his teachers?


Edited by OregonMouse (11/29/17 01:45 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#199622 - 11/30/17 11:42 AM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: JustWalking]
BZH Online   content
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 848
Loc: Torrance, CA
hmmmm..... JW's link proves this stuff exists!

Here's another link (perhaps even less reliable:
http://www.jeelysports.com/e_productshow...-Cloth-987.html

JW's link mentions it is used to manufacture high end snowboards and kayaks. My link mentions defense applications.... all possible leads... I'm still looking for a US source.

edit: These guys may be able to help you: https://www.skarrarmor.com/uhmwpe-fabric

edit2: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1500-Denier-50-...m4383.l4275.c10

edit3: I think Spectra is the same material you are looking for. You could contact Ursack and see if they would be willing to sell you some, or get you in contact with a source for the material.


Edited by BZH (11/30/17 11:59 AM)

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#199627 - 11/30/17 12:15 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: BZH]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By BZH
I am wondering why you feel this would be the best choice?


We hammockers use cord made of this material for ultralight suspension (Amsteel Blue, Dynaglide, etc.). And it is almost unreal how strong it is. A 12 strand braided cord of 1.8mm diameter can reliably hold my weight with a more than comfortable safety margin (not for climbing mind you, but for hammocks). From having put together my own suspension from scratch, I can vouch that it's also incredibly tough to cut and very very slippery. It's so slippery, in fact, that it won't hold a knot; you have to use buries to put it all together.

I thought I'd vaguely remembered seeing this stuff on DIY websites for use in backpacks, but I guess I was thinking of gridstop. When I was trying to figure out if Kevlar might be better, I googled for "UHMWPE vs kevlar" and found this. That's on a cut-resistant glove manufacturer's site, so I knew it existed, but I didn't know their source. Based on the information on that page, I'd say UHMWPE is the clear winner for my application.

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#199628 - 11/30/17 12:17 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: BZH]
GrumpyGord Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 862
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By BZH
hmmmm.....
edit3: I think Spectra is the same material you are looking for. You could contact Ursack and see if they would be willing to sell you some, or get you in contact with a source for the material.


It is my understanding that car air bags are the same stuff and there are a lot of blown air bags in the junk yard.

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#199629 - 11/30/17 12:17 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: JustWalking]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By JustWalking
I've never used Ali Express before, but they do sell it: UHMWPE


Thanks. I might go that route if other suppliers don't pan out.

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#199630 - 11/30/17 12:25 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: OregonMouse]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
One question is, is the shirt itself uncomfortable for him (like my grandson's long pants), or does he just need something to chew on?... Of course he has to wear something to go outside in the cold, but could he continue to go shirtless indoors?

Just throwing out some ideas here. Have you consulted his teachers?


It's definitely chewing needs and not the shirt itself that's the problem. Even when he's not wearing a shirt, he's going to find something to chew on; it's just that his shirt is the most convenient thing to put in his mouth if he's wearing one. We've tried multiple other chewables, but he prefers fabric. As far as going shirtless indoors, keeping our drafty old run-down rent house a comfortable temperature in winter would be more expensive than the shirts.

And yes, we've been back and forth with his teachers on this a lot.

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#199631 - 11/30/17 12:29 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: BZH]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By BZH
hmmmm..... JW's link proves this stuff exists!

Here's another link (perhaps even less reliable:
http://www.jeelysports.com/e_productshow...-Cloth-987.html

JW's link mentions it is used to manufacture high end snowboards and kayaks. My link mentions defense applications.... all possible leads... I'm still looking for a US source.

edit: These guys may be able to help you: https://www.skarrarmor.com/uhmwpe-fabric

edit2: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1500-Denier-50-...m4383.l4275.c10

edit3: I think Spectra is the same material you are looking for. You could contact Ursack and see if they would be willing to sell you some, or get you in contact with a source for the material.


Good catches on all of these. I wonder if 1500 denier would be way overkill though? I really don't know what an appropriate weight would be. I guess I'll just have to try one and see. And, come to think of it, he might like the extra weight. A lot of folks with special needs like weighted blankets.

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#199632 - 11/30/17 12:31 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: GrumpyGord]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By GrumpyGord
It is my understanding that car air bags are the same stuff and there are a lot of blown air bags in the junk yard.


That's a great idea! However, I think the material used to rapidly inflate the bag is toxic. I'll look into it.

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#199633 - 11/30/17 12:33 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: aimless]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
And aimless, thank you for the encouragement.

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#199634 - 11/30/17 12:44 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By 4evrplan
Originally Posted By GrumpyGord
It is my understanding that car air bags are the same stuff and there are a lot of blown air bags in the junk yard.


That's a great idea! However, I think the material used to rapidly inflate the bag is toxic. I'll look into it.


OSHA information on air bags.

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#199684 - 12/04/17 06:44 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I have bought stuff from Ali Express. It was slow getting here (compared to Amazon) but it made it and was as described.

One of the orders was for cheap sunglasses. I don't recall exactly what else but I think it was something for a tech project, like a sensor or relay.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#199723 - 12/06/17 11:53 AM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: billstephenson]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
So nobody goes out of their way, I should mention that the boss asked me not to pursue a DIY solution to this.

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#199725 - 12/06/17 06:03 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1378
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I’m not sure whether this might be relevant, but here goes. I was watching a segment that featured interviews with caregivers of special needs children, and included the child with the parent.

One of the children appeared, to my admittedly uninformed eye, to have a need to chew similar to that which you described. I noticed that he had some sort of pad or sturdy fabric object attached to his shirt button or belt (I forget which), and that when he needed to chew, he would insert the chew-object into his mouth and chew on that.

Would it be possible to modify/pattern your child’s behavior to use an always-available object to chew on, rather than a shirt collar?


Edited by Glenn Roberts (12/06/17 06:07 PM)

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#199728 - 12/06/17 08:38 PM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: Glenn Roberts]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6400
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
That was my thought, too! It might take a while to change his behavior, but that would certainly solve the problem--let him chew, but not his shirt!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#199729 - 12/07/17 12:58 AM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
JustWalking Online   content
member

Registered: 01/12/16
Posts: 128
Loc: PNW
Didn't realize that there's actually a company that makes bite-resistant clothing. Expensive stuff - $250 for a shirt. But if it lasts, it might be feasible.

Bite-Pro

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#199734 - 12/08/17 10:08 AM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: Glenn Roberts]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Yes, I think this might be possible with him, but we've tried to redirect his chewing to other things, and so far it's a no-go. He does have rubber things he can chew, but he prefers fabric. We tried tying bandanas loosely around his neck, and somehow they never seem to stay on long. His care-taker at school removes them herself when he's there. We can ask her not too, but we have little control over what they do when we're not there (that's another battle I won't go into).

Anyway, teaching him to chew on acceptable alternatives may be the way to go long-term; it's just going to take some time.

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#199735 - 12/08/17 10:17 AM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: JustWalking]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 653
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By JustWalking
Didn't realize that there's actually a company that makes bite-resistant clothing. Expensive stuff - $250 for a shirt. But if it lasts, it might be feasible.

Bite-Pro


The short sleeve version is over $180 + shipping. That's not $250, but it's still a lot of money for an experiment. I have a feeling they would hold up well to the occasional bite but not constant chewing. No fabric will. So at that price, it's not worth trying (and even if it was worth a shot, I still can't afford it).

So, I think really the best option is going to be for us to always have something sacrificial that he's allowed to chew handy for him and teach him to use that instead of his shirt. This may be a battle. He knows he's not supposed to chew his shirts, but he can be pretty willful.

Out of pure interest, I looked up the fabric that bite-resistant clothing is made of, Cut-Tex® PRO, and I see it's a blend made largely of UHMWPE, so at least my thinking was on track.

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#199736 - 12/08/17 11:09 AM Re: What's Non-Composite Woven/Knit Dyneema Called [Re: 4evrplan]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6400
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Wishing you the best of luck in "reconditioning" the young man. Please let us know how it works out!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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