I've been starting to look into heading to Yosemite this fall if my brother isn't interest in Zion this year. I was wondering if you guys might be able to educate me a little about the area.

I'm interested in knowing what/if there are any requirements for back country camping. I will need a campground to stay at before I start as well to acclimate and to possible set out drops. Where are some good base camp sites, how hard is it to get a site, are their reservations? How far in Advance do I need? Can I camp anywhere in the backcountry or is their designated sites?

I'm looking a for a hike around 5-6 days. I will be going solo, so if it's not a loop I will need some kind of shuttle to stage my car. Are their any companies I can look into?

I understand I will need a bear canister? I have a katabatic gear palisade 30 degree back and a thermarest xlite. I sleep cold, would this be sufficient? I will be using a copper spur ul1 and some light weight wool base layers.

It's a lot to ask I know. Since this is my first trip there, I just don't want to show up not knowing where I can sleep at the very least. If this trip goes well, I plan on spending more time there and eventually doing the JMT.

Thanks for any help.

Ps, dumb question but how do you go about setting a tent in the rain? Assuming ground is decent enough.

I'm not that familiar with Yosemite and will leave most of your questions to those with more info to offer. However, I live in Oregon and can say something about setting up tents in the rain.

First, know your tent.

Some tents are single wall and therefore the entire tent body is waterproof. This makes them less hassle to set up in the rain. All you need to do is make sure the interior is exposed as little as possible as you set up. Some double-wall tents, but not many, make it possible to set up the fly first and then the tent inside the fly. If yours allows this approach, use it.

I will assume you own a double walled tent that cannot be set up fly-first. You already said you'll be solo, so you won't have a partner to help you out.

Next, plan everything first, before you start.

In rain, the first step is choosing your site. Don't set up where water may pool once the ground is saturated. Also, don't choose a site at the base of a slope that will collect water and sluice it all toward your tent. Choose a site with a slight tilt, preferably with the highest point at the head of your tent and the lowest at the foot. Best possible choice is at the crown of a small rise, where the rain will head away from you in each direction (but ideal placements are never available when you actually need them).

In intermittent rain it makes sense to wait for a break in the rain, then set up your tent, even if you have to wait half an hour. In continuous moderate to heavy rain, I will do as much as possible to place the least water-vulnerable tent components where I can deploy them as rapidly as possible. For example, I assemble the poles and lay them down in easy reach, and place the stakes on the ground next to where I'll want them. I keep the tent body packed away out of the rain until the last moment.

Before I begin, I mentally rehearse my steps, visualizing them all beforehand. If you've set up your tent a dozen times already in the past, you ought to be able to see each step in the process in your mind. Concentrate on speed and efficiency, up until the tent body is up and the fly is covering the tent body. The final tweaks and adjustments, tightening guy lines, adjusting stake placements, etc., should wait until the tent is under the fly.

Rain often comes with wind and that can complicate matters. You may need to stake things down as you go, or weight things down with a rock. Plan these steps before you get down to business. Some rain always gets in the tent while you are setting up. Bring a small camp towel to wipe up water inside your tent after it is set up.

Finally, protect your critical items: your sleeping bag and a few dry clothes to wear inside your tent and inside your sleeping bag. There is no perfect way to stay dry in the rain. Success is measured by staying the least wet you can be.

Final hint: rain covers that fit over the outside of your pack do a poor job compared to using a pack liner that can completely enclose what's inside your pack. A plastic 'contractor's bag', similar to a big leaf bag, but thicker, makes a cheap, effective pack liner. You can find them at hardware stores, Home Depot or Lowe's.

That's kind of what I figured. Should I considered purchasing a single wall tent for this region?

First, get a good map and learn the basic features, roads, trails, drainages. If you have Google Earth, it is really fun to use.

Go the the Yosemite web site.
https://www.nps.gov/yose/index.htm
There is a lot of good information here. Especially about the regulations and permits. It is a bit confusing at first.

You can rent a bear can. It is about $5 a day. If you buy, they range from about $80 to $250. All your food has to fit in the can. This means you have to be careful on re-packing food and avoid bulky food.

You get a backcountry permit. You can reserve ahead or get a first-come permit (about 40% of permits are first-come). As a single hiker, I rarely reserve a permit. Reservations are good for larger groups. The permit just allows you to start on the given date. Do not be discouraged if you see that a trail quota is filled. Lots of people reserve, and then cancell or do not show up. If you do not show up by 11AM and do not call to notify you will be late, your permit is given out to a first-come hiker. The status of the quotas are on the internet, but this is really a bit useless as they usually say "Full". But , after Labor Day permits are easy to get. After about September 15, on many trails you can simply self-register.

You usually have to get in at least 4 miles before camping is legal, but you can camp anywhere (there are a few exceptions). You are asked to give a daily schedule, but this is just to help them find you if you are reported as missing. You are not obligated to exactly follow the daily plan. You can camp pretty much anywhere, as long as you are about 200 feet away from water and trails. There are a lot of visible used campsites. Fires are permitted under certain elevations,about 9,000 feet. (actually quite a bit of Yosemite allows campfires). Except in dry times and often in the fall, fires are not allowed due to forest fire season.

"fall" in Yosemite is September - Oct 15 if you go in on Tioga Road. Even if the road is open, parking is not allowed after Oct 15. Most high campgrounds close by Oct 1. Lower elevation trails are often open year-round. Some campgrounds in Yosemite Valley are open year-round.

During September - November, weather can change for beastly hot to winter conditions. A lot depends on altitude. Tioga Road usually closes by mid-November (but no parking after Oct 15). If you do, they will tow your car.

No dogs allowed on trails in Yosemite. If you have a dog you need to do your backpacking on surrounding Forest Service land.

Not sure what you mean by "base camping". Do you mean staying one place while on a backpack or car-camping at a campground?

Camp 4 is a walk-in (really short walk-in, you just cannot have a car at your site), no reservations, first-come, and only $7 a person per night. It is located in the Valley, close to all the concessions. There are also "backpacker" campgrounds, that you are allowed to use the day before and day after your permitted trip.

There is a lot of free bus service, but it usually ends after Labor Day, so if you are going in the fall you will have to hitch hike or drive your car.

There are several good guidebooks. It is well worth the money to buy one. I like Jeffrey Schaffer's "Yosemite National Park, A Natural-History Guide to Yosemite and its Trails". It is quite old- I am sure there are new ones out there now.

Do your homework first. Then come back to backpack forums and ask more specific questions about routes.

As for gear, it is not that different from what you are probably used to. It can get quite cool at night in the fall, especially if above 10,000 feet. Plan on a few nights below freezing. September and early October can also be hot and dry, like summer. If really hot, just stay up high. Most trails are well maintained. Most use light hiking shoes, not boots.

Many trails have a LOT of elevation gain. Not unusual to gain 3000 feet in a day. From Yosemite Valley, everything is UP, big time!

If you do not already know how to navigate, this is essential!

All good advice here. Following up on Daisy's comment, most of us who backpack in Yosemite do not start in the valley, but prefer to start somewhere along the Tioga Road, which eliminates about 4,000 feet of hiking uphill. Yosemite Valley is at roughly 4,000 elevation, and the rest of the park ranges from 8,000 to 13,000, so starting a bit higher makes life a lot easier.

You don't specify when in the fall you are thinking about visiting, but most of us think that late summer (late August and early September) are just about perfect for Yosemite. The mosquitoes have died back, the kids are back in school, and the high country is beautiful. But note that it can and has snowed on the upper elevations of the park every month of the year, and your chance of getting colder temperatures and snow increase with every day after September 1.

We have a ton of suggested hikes in Yosemite on our website. You can find a link for that in my signature line. And if you really need to hike with a dog, you should look at some of the neighboring wilderness areas, like Emigrant, Hoover, or Ansel Adams. There are some wonderful trips in those areas as well--also covered in our website.

Ok, awesome lots of great info. Ty Rwandering_daisy and balzaccom.

So from what I understand, I will need a bear can, that ok. Are bears common along the trail?

Reservations, I only need a permit to start, correct? And as long as I show up before 11am I should be able to get one. Will I need to get their early to get a better chance, Just in case? I've had to get in line at Zion at 4am, just to make sure I was first in line to get the backcountry sites I wanted.

I really like that I can camp anywhere, should make planning a bit easier.

You mentioned that the higher campgrounds close after oct 1. Is this because of snow and cold?

As far as temp goes, my last Zion trip was upper 90s, and I barely noticed. But I do better in hot weather anyway. Not sure about cold weather.

No pets for me, so that's good.

Basecamping I meant as a place to camp before and after the trip, two nights maybe three to get permits and acclimate. Looks like camp 4 might be the place to go, are their any others, or does that place generally have enough space. If not, do I need to be there by a certain time to ensure a spot?

Bus service is great, are their any taxi services? Like, private companies that do this?

I will definitely get maps and books, this is just a information gathering mission

The elevation gains could be interesting, Any idea how they may compare to the whites, near mount Washington.

I'm not sure when I plan on going or where. i think for my first time, I'd really like to stay out of the snow. How do you find trails when they are covered?

I have some land nav skills from the military, I can do map orientation, and some terrain association, I don't remember much else. I live in Iowa, so it's now like I can practice, and the paths at Zion are clearly worn through, I only used the map once.


I appreciate all the help and info, I always like to learn as much as I can!

Lots of questions...and a few answers!


Reservations, I only need a permit to start, correct? And as long as I show up before 11am I should be able to get one. Will I need to get their early to get a better chance, Just in case? I've had to get in line at Zion at 4am, just to make sure I was first in line to get the backcountry sites I wanted.

>> you can reserve a permit in advance, and many trailheads have space right now for after Labor Day. As a single person, you can probably get a walk-up permit. At that time of year, unless you are starting on the Friday or Saturday of Labor Weekend, it shouldn't be a problem.

I really like that I can camp anywhere, should make planning a bit easier.

>> As long as you are four miles in from the nearest road. When you get a good hiking map of Yosemite, those areas are marked.

You mentioned that the higher campgrounds close after oct 1. Is this because of snow and cold?

>>Yes. But that refers to the car campgrounds. High country is still open for backpacking.

As far as temp goes, my last Zion trip was upper 90s, and I barely noticed. But I do better in hot weather anyway. Not sure about cold weather.

>> Plan on the temps getting below freezing at night after Labor day

Basecamping I meant as a place to camp before and after the trip, two nights maybe three to get permits and acclimate. Looks like camp 4 might be the place to go, are their any others, or does that place generally have enough space. If not, do I need to be there by a certain time to ensure a spot?

>>A car campground. That's what Daisy meant by Camp 4, But if you really want to acclimate, you might look at some of the campgrounds higher up--nearer to Tuolumne Meadows.

Bus service is great, are their any taxi services? Like, private companies that do this?

>> Not that I am aware of---unless you try an Uber? Yosemite is a long way from where most people live.

I will definitely get maps and books, this is just a information gathering mission smile

The elevation gains could be interesting, Any idea how they may compare to the whites, near mount Washington.

>> Every trail is different, but a steep Yosemite trail can gain 1,000 feet per mile. And remember that some of those are at 10,000 feet. That's a mile higher that Washington. Thin air!

I'm not sure when I plan on going or where. i think for my first time, I'd really like to stay out of the snow. How do you find trails when they are covered?

>> Good question. If you've never done this, please be careful. You can sometimes see where they've cut logs to let the trail through, or a blaze on a tree, or a glimpse of the trail between patches of snow. But I don't know anyone who doesn't lose the trail from time to time in these conditions. Add time to allow you get get lost and found again. And if you've never done this, I would think twice about tackling a remote trail in Yosemite. The popular trails will probably have someone's footprints ahead of you...

I plan on staying out of the snow for this first couple trips. This trip may wait until spring. Is there a decent time to go then?

How difficult is it to find water?

I find that Tuolumne Meadows is mentioned quite a bit on the site, would you consider that a decent place to start for a first time go around?

You will have more snow on the ground in the Spring, unless it is an unusually dry winter (such as 2016). This year (2017) is almost 200% snowpack, so this spring would be very difficult. Tioga Pass may not even open this year until July.

Campgrounds on Tioga Road close when weather gets poor or when there are so few users that the concessionier cannot make any money. The Yosemite Website lists the historical opening and closing dates of all campgrounds and projected dates for the upcoming year. There are campgrounds east of the park entry out of Lee Vining (Forest Service campgrounds) that stay open longer. The Oct 15 parking regulation applies to Tioga Road from the east entrance to the Crane Flat junction (where there is a gas station). They close the road off and on, unexpectedly, for various reasons after Oct 15 and you would not be able to retrieve your car. In the past I have parked for a short overnight trip and got away with it, but they are getting more picky about the regulations lately. There are lots of other trailheads you can still use after Oct. 15.

I would not postpone until next spring - this fall should be perfect.

There are lots of bears, but most people do not see them. If you really look closely you will see them just off the trail. Bear-proof food storage is really necessary, not just a stupid requirement. I have seen more bears north of Tioga Road, especially on the trails north of the Tuolumne. They used to move the problem bears from the Valley to locations in the northern part of the park.

There is also access into Yosemite from Forest Service traiheads just outside the park. In this case, you get a permit from the Forest Service (offices in Lee Vining (east side) and near Groveland (west side). For example, the northern tier of Yosemite is usually accessed from Cherry Lake on the west, or Hoover Wilderness on the east. The southern (west) part of Yosemite can be accessed from several trailheads along the Besears-Minarette Road. You get the permit from ranger stations along that road, or in fall, usually you just self-register. The southern east part of Yosemite is accessed from Silver Lake trailheads or Minarets. These permits can be obtained from the Visitor Center at Mono Lake (just out of Lee Vining).

I'm not sure if I can make it this fall, if my brother wants to go, he will want to go to Zion. Which is fine, I really like that place. So maybe next fall for sure.

I could go during the summer, but I try to get two hikes in a year, and the span between them would be too short.

I understand the bear canisters, do people carry any kind of bear spray or bells? It sounds like these bears are brown bears? The less aggressive ones? I should probably do some searches on what to do if I see one.

I read a while back that bears will go for anything that smells like food, How does one deal with cook wear and clothing? I'm assuming the bear canister would be stored away from camp, some say in sight and in between two large branches so they can't roll it away. Or should it be farther?

Should I be looking into a single wall tent if temps are around freezing?

Black bears, NOT grizzlies. They are specifically after food, or will defend cubs if you get between a mother and cub. They have the ability to differentiate between the smell of food on people and a bag full of food. They may sniff you but will prefer the actual food. Making noise helps. If there are bears, you will likely see signs- tracks, poop. Then I click my poles together and fake a 2-way conversation with myself. I do not use bear bells. Bear spray is not legal in Yosemite. They will not hurt you unless they feel threatened. They are know to raid campsites at night to try and get food. Maintaining a clean camp helps a lot. Wash your hands and face before going in the tent for the night. You need not over-worry about the bears.

Your tent and sleeping pad are fine. I use the older (not UL) copper spur 1. The only advantage of a single wall tent is that you save some weight. I prefer double wall tents in freezing conditions. I have done a lot of week-long trips in Yosemite using a bivy sack. For the most part, there is not a lot of rain in the Sierra in the summer. Some years are more "monsoonal" with more frequent afternoon lighting storms.

Most streams are snowmelt fed, raging in the spring (not easily crossable) and may even dry up entirely by late fall. Thankfully there are plent of bridges where trails cross large streams. One reason for a spring trip would be to see the waterfalls and high flows in the streams. A classic hike is the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne as soon as Tioga Road opens. Mosquitoes are fierce for the few weeks after the snow melts at any given elevation. Summer is crowded and I avoid the Valley- stay up high. I personally prefer other parts of the Sierra for high altitude trips in the summer. Fall is still very nice, and you can hike either the higher altitude treks or the ones that go into Yosemite Valley. But many waterfalls will be dry. You will not have to worry about finding trails- by the end of the season snow has melted and the heavy summer use makes the trails very visible and well-worn. Also much more solitude in the fall.

To me, the main reason to go to Yosemite is to see the huge granite walls of the valley and the waterfalls. There is truely no comparison. My favorite trips are the lower elevation trips from the Valley floor up raging rivers with tons of waterfalls. I also save one full day to day-hike the valley trails just to photograph. You can hardly take a bad photo in Yosemite Valley. There is more spectacular high country in the High Sierra to the south. Yosemite Valley is NOT a wilderness experience, but it is uniquely scenic. I also love Yosemite Valley in the winter. When there is snow on the valley floor, you can ski a 12-mile trail that circles the valley. Two campgrounds are open. It is chilly, but beautiful. And there are warm public lodges to sit in during the dark evening hours. Then just walk across the street to your tent at Camp 4.

By the way, Yosemite is a day-hiking paradise. Many backpackers spend all their time in less scenic spots in the Yosemite simply to backpack, whereas they could go farther, see more and have more spectacular scenery simply day-hiking. You could easily do a very rewarding 7-10 day trip in Yosemite JUST day-hiking. There are challenging long day-hikes, for example you can day-hike the 22-mile north rim. I have day-hiked from Tenaya Lake to the Valley (21 miles). Climb Cloud's Rest in a day. Up Four Mile trail, down Panorama Trail and the Mist Trail. These are butt-kicking spectacular hikes.

That's what I like about Zion, it's so open. My trips to the whites were kind of depressing. Nothing but thick great forest, and when I finally did get to the top of mt McKinley, it looked like rolling hills of green and then back into the forest.

For some reason I really like the aspect of taking everything with you, being out there with nothing but what's on your back. Day hikes for me feel like I'm just walking down the street. A very rocky street. It doesn't feel as satisfying when you complete the journey.

It's good to hear that bears should t be too big of an issue. Outside of the bear can, do you leave anything outside? Pack, stove?

From the pictures I've seen, it seems very open. Is this true of the lower elevations?

I'm curious what the wind I can be like there. I'd assume the wind chill can be pretty fierce.

I was also wondering why you would suggest low top shoes. Is it because of the gortex in the boots? I have a pair of breeze III that are not Gtx. They still seem warm, but they help keep the sand out.

Again, i really appreciate all the info!