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#194225 - 03/14/16 12:42 PM Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip..
Bee-man Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/14/16
Posts: 2
First things first. I'm as newb as they get. So, I'm starting from scratch here. I was interested in someday being able to go to a national park and go on a solo backbacking trip that spanned over 5 to 7 days.

How long would it take for me to get to the point where I could manage this if I practiced on a smaller scale for a while?

In regards to survival skills, I'm a blank canvas. I know that I have a ton to learn before taking something like this on.

In regards to physical shape, I'm in decent shape. I am a runner. I get out and run 5 days a week. I'm slightly overweight, but I am in good cardio condition. I'm certainly not a couch potato. I can run 6 miles non-stop on my long run day. I know running isn't the same as backpacking, but my point is that I think the physical task of a week long backpacking trip would be less of a concern than the survival skills aspects.

Going solo is a must for this. It would be a bit of a "go out in the woods, get away from society for a while, and find myself" kind of trip. I'm sure that going solo is much more dangerous than doing something like this within a group, so am I being unrealistic? Is this a really bad idea?

I'm not really looking for a primer on backpacking in this post. I'm mostly just wondering if my vision is realistic and if it is, how much work is required to get there.

Also, the sun and I don't agree. So, I am envisioning a national park that is heavily shaded. I'm thinking what would be perfect for me would be an early fall trip when the sun is less harsh and the leaves have started to turn. Any suggestions for a national park that would fit the bill for this?

Thanks in advance.

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#194229 - 03/14/16 02:05 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2862
Loc: Portland, OR
The short answer is: yes, this is not an unrealistic goal and you can almost certainly reach it. Like most skill sets, how long it takes to learn it will depend on how vigorously you pursue your goal. Really single-minded devotion to preparation could see you ready by next autumn, but most of us have too many responsibilities to be single-minded, so if you've never really done any camping or hiking before, give yourself a year at least to study up and start practicing your skills.

Most of the skills required for backpacking are simple to learn, but not all of them. The easy skills are things like how to pitch your tent, tarp, or hammock, or how to select your food so you neither go hungry nor walk back out to your vehicle carrying 5 lbs of uneaten and unnecessary food, and how to pack your pack and adjust the hip belt and straps for maximum comfort. These simple skills, once you've practiced them a bit and are comfortable with them, can be applied with minor variations to most of the hikes you'll do in the future.

Read up as much as you can before you spend any money! There are many good books, websites and forums out there, but read more than one, until you find an approach that makes sense to you. Carefully select your gear and clothes, then take a few short 'shakedown' overnight trips. That ought to cover most of the easy-skill learning curve. Oh, and the best way to get in condition for carrying a pack is... carrying a pack.

The skills that take longest are more connected to developing a keen sense of the place where you hike, such as understanding what clothes will keep you comfortable and safe in all conditions you are likely to meet, recognizing a change in weather several hours before it arrives, and knowing the topography of your surroundings well enough to predict a water source or a good campsite. The less well you understand the place you hike, the more safety factors you need to build into your plans to compensate for that lack of knowledge.

If you choose a national park for your adventure that is far from home and unlike anywhere you've ever been before, it will present a greater challenge and be harder to prepare for than if you seek out a place nearer home. But don't confine yourself to national parks. They can be crowded and have many restrictions on where and how you can camp in them. National forests and wilderness areas may provide a better opportunity for the kind of trip you envision.

By the way, I live in the Pacific NW. The shadiest NP near me would be Olympic National Park. It's a rain forest!

Others here will add many more valuable bits that I've forgotten to mention. Taken together, our members represent a huge amount of practical experience and hard-won wisdom. Good luck!

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#194236 - 03/14/16 03:14 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: aimless]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2752
Loc: California
Solo backpacking on trails in National Parks is not truly "solo". Most trails are quite popular and you will run into people a lot. Some parks require you to camp at established campgrounds, where there will be others. Not that great for those of us who like solitude, but really great for a beginner like you.

I find that to truly be solo, you almost have to go off trail. In this case you need many more skills- particularly navigation skills and micro-route finding. This may be a goal for you after you perfect solo backpacking in more popular places.

Going solo is more mental than anything else. It is all a matter of confidence and self-reliance, which are built by experience. At some point (and only you will know when that is) you will feel enough confidence to be really comfortable solo. Do not expect this at first, so do not get discouraged. Also, if you never adjust to it, do not feel defeated. Some people are just very social and do better and have more fun around other people. You will not know until you try it.

Remember, if you solo, be sure to leave a detailed travel plan with your family so if you go missing you have a chance of being found.

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#194239 - 03/14/16 03:54 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
We could give a lot more specific advice if you would fill out your profile so we can see in what region you live and where you'll be hiking.

I agree with aimless--start close to home! In fact, start in the back yard (yours or a borrowed one). Once you're familiar with your gear, branch out into car-camping and day hiking. Don't make your first real backpacking trip a week-long trip far from home; make it an overnighter no more than a mile or two from your car. If you mess up (we all do every now and then; that's how we learn!), you need to be able to bail out quickly back to your car or your warm dry bedroom. Once you do well in good weather, deliberately schedule some of these practice sessions close to home or your car in wet. windy, cold weather. The important skills you need to learn are to keep your gear dry in all sorts of weather and to regulate your body temperature.

I avoid national parks, which are overcrowded and full of bureaucracy. I've found equally good or better scenery, far less crowding, and far less rules and regulations in national forest wilderness areas. The myth that national parks are the place to go is just that, a myth.

Some research sources which will keep you busy for a while:

Home page of this site, left-hand column

Section Hiker blog--go down to the right and click on "For Beginners"

Backpacking--a beginners primer

The Frugal Backpacker--$300 gear chanllenge

Budget backpacking kit (an upscale version of the $300 challenge)

Andrew Skurka blog --lots of good articles

If you find a hiking club in your area (try googling), consider going out with them to learn skills.

I am also extremely sun sensitive and, worse yet, allergic to sunscreens. I always wear long sleeves, long pants, hand coverings (you can make your own that fit over the backs of your hands), and a really shady hat (Sunday Afternoons Adventure). I wear clothing that has sun-blocking properties. You don't need to avoid high altitudes or open spaces just because of sun! Always hiking in a green tunnel with no views gets boring really fast!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#194242 - 03/14/16 05:51 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 848
Loc: Torrance, CA
Originally Posted By Bee-man
...I'm sure that going solo is much more dangerous than doing something like this within a group, so am I being unrealistic? Is this a really bad idea?...


Q1: No
Q2: No

How green are you? Have you ever camped? Do you go hiking in the wilderness now? If you have done that stuff, then you are really not that far from reaching your goal already.

There really aren't that many "skills" to learn. You just need to get comfortable doing this kind of thing.

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#194243 - 03/14/16 06:08 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: BZH]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1382
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I'd agree with BZH - a 5-day trip doesn't really require any additional skills; to oversimplify a bit, it's just several overnighters taken without a break.

So, what do you need to figure out? First, how often you're comfortable changing clothes. Personally, a spare T-shirt and maybe spare pair of nylons shorts or pants (depends mostly on whether there's rain forecast), and an extra pair of socks, is all I take; wearing dirty clothes doesn't bother me. However, I have friends that want fresh clothes every day; some take 1 spare set (quick-dry material) and wash one every night. Others take a spare set for every day. It's all personal preference and how much weight you're willing to carry.

Second, somewhat related, is how much body cleaning you need to do. If you insist on a complete, hot wash-up every night, you'll have to practice the technique of washing from a pot (or a folding nylon basin) and figure out how much extra fuel you'll need to heat the water. If you can get by with a quick, cold wash of vital spots (i.e., face, and anywhere that might chafe), it's much easier. I fall into the latter category, and just take an extra microfiber towel for drying off. (Soap isn't needed; I just want the grit and grime rinsed away.) Naturally, you wash away from water sources and don't dump your dirty water directly into the source (especially if you use soap.) I'm not exactly sure of the ethics, but in the right circumstances, a little swim takes the place of a rinse-down. (Taking soap into a creek to lather up is a no-no.)

Beyond that, just make sure you can put together a varied enough menu that you're willing to eat it every night. Freeze-dried food and Quaker flavored oatment make that really easy.

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#194246 - 03/14/16 09:24 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Glenn Roberts]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 677
The Appalachian Trail is also called the "green tunnel", many sections are heavily forested, have shelters placed within a days walk apart and will have sections not heavily traveled come the fall. Also has places for re-supply, rather than having to carry 7 days food. It also is fairly well watered for most of it, having you carry less with you at a time. Worth a thought. It is also not a rain forest, as hiking in lots of rain and constant wet brings more skills in to play. It may sound like a highway at times, but I live very near it in Vermont, and it is very much like wilderness outside of 6 weeks or so a year. Another incredible place of heavy forest is Isle Royale NP. Can't get much more wilderness sounding than listening to wolves. Good luck on your journey.
_________________________
Charlie

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#194247 - 03/14/16 10:09 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1382
Loc: Southwest Ohio
You mention "it's all about survival skills." If you find yourself in a survival situation, something has gone horribly off the rails. We don't go backpacking to stagger out of the wilderness, having somehow managed not to die one more time.

Properly equipped (here's where you need the backpacking primer) and knowing how to use the equipment, backpacking is a very relaxing and comfortable activity. Will you be tired at the end of a long day of walking? Sure - but it will be the "good" kind of tired, like you probably are when you finish a run.

There are camping skills you'll need to know (note: building a shelter from branches and setting snares for small game are not among them) - get a good book on backpacking, and/or take a course and beginner's trip from someone like the local REI or independent shop, the Sierra Club chapter near you, or the local college or community center. Or, volunteer with a Scout troop, as an assistant Scoutmaster - most troops are always looking for a second adult for a trip, or for talent to develop.

It's also not "much more dangerous" to go solo rather than with a group. You have to carry all your own gear (adds a few pounds to your load), and you have to lower your level of acceptable risk, since there's no one to go for help. But, unless you intend to do dumb stuff like climb without ropes or run down rugged trails in the dark, that's not difficult either. The biggest problem I've ever had going solo for more than a night or two is that I miss having someone to share the trip with; solitude is a personal choice, and all of us tolerate it differently.

Start with shorter trips, then just add a day or two at a time. If you have zero camping experience, then you might start by simulating a backpack trip. Go to a local park with, say 5-10 miles of trail and a public campground. Park your car at a campsite, put on your loaded pack (including 5 days' worth of food, if that's what you're working up to), lock the car, and go hike the trails. While you're out, eat lunch (maybe fix something hot, so you can practice lighting your stove), practice reading a map and finding routes, practice using your water filter, practice picking out a campsite (and maybe practice pitching your tent in a couple of those sites, so you can judge how good a site they really are), and end up back at your campsite at the public campground. Set up camp, cook, and sleep overnight. If all goes well, you've got the beginnings of "experience." If something goes wrong (you find out the tent leaks when it rains, or your sleeping bag won't keep you warm enough at its rated temperature, etc.) - you pack up, unlock the car, and go to a motel or go home.

When you're comfortable with this, head out on a real overnight, perhaps on a loop trail. Try to make your night camp about a mile or mile and a half from the car (again, if you need to bail, it's only 15 minutes to the car.) Then work up from there.

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#194251 - 03/15/16 12:36 AM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Glenn Roberts]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1731
Loc: Napa, CA
You're getting good advice here. I'd start with a few car camping trips just to get a sense of what it's like to sleep on the ground, live in a tent, and cook with no refrigeration. You don't need different equipment, just a tent and a sleeping bag--but by car camping you give yourself the option to bail if things aren't going well--something that's a lot harder to do when you are backpacking. Even your backyard is a worthwhile experiment. (You'd be surprised to know how many of us veterans here try out new equipment or techniques in our backyards!)

It's a pretty simple transition from that kinds of camping to an overnight a couple of miles in from the trailhead. And once you do one or two of those without any problems, then the only big change for a longer hike is that you have to carry more food, and you have to go longer before you get a hot shower.

And as many have mentioned here, if you were hiking "solo" in many of the major parks, you'd still see between 15 and 50 people a day on the trail, and probably camp near another group each night. If you're worried about the wilderness, that might be comforting.

Take it easy and slow, and have fun. We'll see you out on the trail in no time.
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#194256 - 03/15/16 09:24 AM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
Bee-man Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/14/16
Posts: 2
Oh wow! Thank you all for such detailed replies! I can tell this forum has lots of friendly helpful folks in it. I'm really glad to have found all of you! smile

I probably won't be able to reply to all of you in detail, even though I'd like to. I will touch on some common things that were said though.

I suppose my thought process on what backpacking was like was a bit flawed. I suppose I imagined it being more intense. That's not a bad thing by the way. I'm not disappointed to hear that it is a much safer activity than I first imagined. I have to say that I did even wonder if I would need to know how to hunt for food along the way. *blush* After reading a bit on here about what to pack and reading your replies, I'm now realizing that it's not quite like going out into the wild and living off the land for 7 days. smile lol. So, I'm starting to realize that this may not be all that difficult to get up to speed on.

The topic of solitude is an important one for me to cover. I love solitude. Part of the reason I want to take this trip is just to kind of get away from it all (including the hectic family life). I just want to be able to get lost in my thoughts for a few days. At first, I really felt like I wanted to not see a person ...at all ... during the full hike. Now that I think about it though, I wouldn't mind if I saw the occasional fellow backpacker or group along the way. I wouldn't be inclined to strike up a conversation with them or anything but a friendly hello here and there along the way wouldn't ruin the solitude aspect of the trip for me. ...and as some mentioned, it may actually be nice to have some peace of mind knowing that others are nearby or likely to be nearby in case of an emergency situation.

Thank you very much for all of the park recommendations with shade by the way. I'm going to check them out in more detail.

I'm also going to fill out my profile as other's have suggested.

Keep the replies coming! They are very helpful! Thank you all! smile

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#194258 - 03/15/16 09:36 AM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: balzaccom]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I think everyone has mentioned these things, so I will just list them:

Go on day hikes in the woods. This means drive to trailhead, park, walk a distance, walk back to car, drive home, sleep in your bed at home. You can practice navigation skills and hiking technique (ie, rest step) etc.

Go on overnight trips. Start in backyard to get familiar with new gear purchases. Move to car camping, and then to overnight backpacking.

Look at a hiking group like on yahoo or something. They will have beginner trips with experienced people who can individually teach you skills that you won't even know you needed to know.

There really isn't a lot of skill in backpacking. It is pretty much walking with a pack on. Sure, there is skill in making it more comfortable and safer, but just doing it will help you there.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#194259 - 03/15/16 09:49 AM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By Bee-man

I suppose my thought process on what backpacking was like was a bit flawed. I suppose I imagined it being more intense. That's not a bad thing by the way. I'm not disappointed to hear that it is a much safer activity than I first imagined. I have to say that I did even wonder if I would need to know how to hunt for food along the way. *blush* After reading a bit on here about what to pack and reading your replies, I'm now realizing that it's not quite like going out into the wild and living off the land for 7 days. smile lol. So, I'm starting to realize that this may not be all that difficult to get up to speed on.


For background, I also participate in forums that talk about wilderness survival and bushcraft. I have to constantly remind people there and here that backpacking and wilderness survival are two totally different activities. You are either backpacking, or you are trying to survive. Foraging for food and backpacking do not go together. If you look at any example of either explorers or native peoples, those who traveled, had prepared foods. If they didn't have prepared foods, they didn't travel. If they were collecting food along the way, they would stop for a few days to secure the food, and then move on when they had enough. You actually don't need to know any survival skills to backpack. You don't need to know how to start a fire, or find food, or build a shelter. All you need to know is how to keep your pack contents dry, how to set up your tent, how to stay warm in your sleeping bag and with your clothes, how not to get lost, and how to keep your food (and yourself) safe from animals. Knowing first aid and other survival skills aren't necessary.... they just might come in handy. So, don't ignore them, just don't think you absolutely need them.

Originally Posted By Bee-man

The topic of solitude is an important one for me to cover. I love solitude. Part of the reason I want to take this trip is just to kind of get away from it all (including the hectic family life). I just want to be able to get lost in my thoughts for a few days. At first, I really felt like I wanted to not see a person ...at all ... during the full hike. Now that I think about it though, I wouldn't mind if I saw the occasional fellow backpacker or group along the way. I wouldn't be inclined to strike up a conversation with them or anything but a friendly hello here and there along the way wouldn't ruin the solitude aspect of the trip for me. ...and as some mentioned, it may actually be nice to have some peace of mind knowing that others are nearby or likely to be nearby in case of an emergency situation.


I have found that the farther you get from cars, the friendly people are. Every time I have passed someone on the trail, we end up talking to each other for a few minutes. The farther from the parking lot we are... the longer the conversation.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#194276 - 03/16/16 01:41 AM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
BrRabbit Offline
member

Registered: 03/15/16
Posts: 58
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I will try no to repeat anyone and I agree with everything said before me - especially the part that backpacking is not a survival thing - all sound advice.

I am also in a very similar shoes as you, maybe started a few years earlier, but one can never stop learning new things smile or pushing the limits.

1) Even on day hikes, have enough gear to survive the night if you happen to be lost, sprain your ankle, and it's unsafe to continue. A young couple were lost for 4 days in some very popular park near Los Angeles (with a search party actively looking for them) not more than 2 miles from their car. Look up for "Essential 10 items", you might not need all of them, but you better think about it smile

2) Map, compass and other gear is not your main asset. Your common sense is. Don't lose it, don't panic if things go bad. People died in the woods from hypothermia while having full backpack of gear. And people survived with nothing for weeks.

3) If you can, starting from June, go each weekend for a 2-nighter, rain or shine. Do the first night near the car and second after a full day hike (return on the second day). Second night is always more difficult than the first, so whenever you can do a 2-nights trip. By next June, you'll probably be very comfortable sleeping outdoors. If you cannot do every weekend, stick to once a month, go camping with your family too, kids love camping, wives love a break from cleaning the house and cooking.

4) If you invest into Ray Jardine's book "Trail Life", you'll probably save a lot of $$ on your gear. And don't listen to REI (or any other store-paid) experts - not even if you take their free classes, their job is to sell to you what they get. If you don't want to buy the book, just check his website. Andrew Skurka's site is good reading too, but Andrew is top level athlete and full-time adventurer, and as such, his gear choices might not be best for you.

5) For longer trips, learn to plan your meals. So, I'd suggest to bring just enough for so many days, as you plan to be out. If you happen to have no food for a day or two, it's not a big deal. Bring more snacks than dinners.

6) For off-trail travel, one needs to practice with map, compass and GPS (and know how to live without it too). Not like theoretically know how to use it, but practice going exactly by the route you planned with a compass in hand, or actually finding your location on the map now and then.

7) As the old saying goes, if it's light on your back, it must worth a lot. But be weight-conscious from the very beginning, especially if it is expensive. I personally prefer a tarp and a quilt summer or winter to a tent and sleeping bag (but I own a sleeping bag now and don't have much funds to replace it) for their weight savings. Even overloaded with so many extras, my bag was not weighting more than 20LB (with food, but not counting clothes worn on my body) on my recent 3 nights winter backpacking trip. So, sometimes, it's worth not to buy the cheapest gear, nor the most expensive one (recommended by a salesman), but the lighter - the better.

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#194280 - 03/16/16 11:17 AM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: BrRabbit]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1731
Loc: Napa, CA
One more thought

You mention a desire for solitude. I think you'll find that if you get off trail, even fifty yards, you'll get that solitude. I am not suggesting that you immediately head off into the wilderness off trail and get lost. We want to see you again.

But if you are on a trail, and want a little time to yourself, it's amazing how alone you can be while still staying with 50-100 yards of a popular trail. A quiet place for lunch, meditation, reading a book--all waiting for you there.

N.B. Except along a creek or lake. There you can expect a fisherman every fifteen minutes to walk by!
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#194293 - 03/16/16 08:37 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Please note that there is a lot of difference between backpacking skills and "survival skills" as in the reality TV programs (Bear Gryllis et al).

With backpacking, you take what you need with you (although trying to keep it relatively light) and don't depend on the environment for your basic needs (except for "grazing" along the trails during huckleberry season, perhaps fishing, and, of course, obtaining water). You try to disturb the environment as little as possible, following the Leave No Trace Principles. These principles are the basis for the general rules for backpacking in national parks, national forest wilderness areas, and other areas where it's necessary or desirable to limit human impact. You're carrying what you need for survival with you; the skills you need are how to use your gear to stay warm, dry, fed, and hydrated in adverse conditions.

"Survival skills," involving living off the land, making your own shelter, etc., involve considerable effect on the environment and therefore should only be practiced in already impacted places where it doesn't matter that you cut green vegetation or otherwise disturb the surroundings. Most of this activity would be illegal in national parks, national forest wilderness, etc. It may be fun, but because of its effect on the environment, you won't use it very often.

I hopes this help you differentiate between the two. Because most of the areas you'll backpack are under rules to protect the environment, the two activities are generally mutually exclusive.


Edited by OregonMouse (03/16/16 08:40 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#194358 - 03/19/16 04:17 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: Bee-man]
bobito9 Offline
member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 385
I'm not sure if I'm adding anything to the excellent advice that you are already receiving by saying this, but:
It sounds like solitude and being alone are a big part of your goal, yet at the same time, you are concerned about your ability and knowledge to spend 5-7 days backpacking through wilderness. One option, something I like to do sometimes, is not be so focused on traveling a long ways everyday. Instead, hike in a good day or two in on an established trail and then head off trail to establish a basecamp, some place where you can be confident of finding your way back to the trail from. As others have noted, you don't have to get far off trail to get some solitude. Then use that camp as a base for dayhiking, peak-bagging, or (a favorite of mine) just sitting in quiet with my thoughts or a good book. Backpacking does not need to be about covering great distance and ambitious goals, though that is fun sometimes.
Also, check out hiking guidebooks. You can get a lot of really good ideas from them, coupled together with a nice topographical trail map. You can talk to a ranger in advance, for planning purposes: they aren't always that helpful because a lot of their orientation is towards trying to keep people from over-doing their adventure and getting hurt or lost, so they might try to dissuade you from getting off trail, but they can let you know about things like which areas are more private, where the water sources are, fire use regulations, current trail conditions etc. Oh, and tell people (friends and rangers) where you'll be going, for safety (not that I generally remember to do so, but it's smarter to).

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#194362 - 03/19/16 07:17 PM Re: Thinking of building up to a week long solo trip.. [Re: bobito9]
Glenn Roberts Offline
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1382
Loc: Southwest Ohio
You may not be sure you added anything, but I am: you definitely did.

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