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#193481 - 02/04/16 04:41 PM silk mummy liners
the-gr8t-waldo Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Tacoma, Washington
I've been thinking about buying a silk mummy bag liner to take my quilt down a few more degrees, and help keep the gear a bit cleaner too. And have sorta zeroed in on the cocoon expedition ( I particularly like the hood idea). Have been reading the reviews and they'd giving me pause to re examine this possible purchase. From the reviews I'm starting to get the impression that they don't add any appreciatble warmth to a sleep system. Last camping season I was a cold one night when the temps got down to around 34 ( diy down quilt that I targeted for 30) I was hoping that a silk liner would add 5-8 degrees . anyone else using such an animal? If it doesn't improve cold range, I'll have to change tack

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#193482 - 02/04/16 05:01 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6389
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I got one back in 2006 and ditched it in a dumpster after two nights!

(1) By morning, I was so tangled up in it that it took me several minutes to get out of my sleeping bag!

(2) Once I ditched the thing, I didn't notice that I was any cooler, under comparable conditiions (rainy and upper 30s/low 40s F.

IMHO, save your money. If you're down to marginal temps for your sleeping bag, that's what your insulating clothing is for.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#193483 - 02/04/16 05:50 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: OregonMouse]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1722
Loc: Napa, CA
I agree. IN fact, if you really want silk next to your skin, wear silk pajamas.

And we want photos..
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balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#193485 - 02/04/16 07:26 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: balzaccom]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: Southwest Ohio
"We want photos"

Well, maybe not ALL of we. smile

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#193487 - 02/04/16 09:32 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2852
Loc: Portland, OR
I have a long-sleeved silk t-shirt and a pair of silk long underwear that I wear to keep my sleeping bag clean (or 'cleanish'). They are more versatile than a sleeping bag liner, since I can wear them at other times, if I need to.

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#193489 - 02/05/16 08:07 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: aimless]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 677
My silk underwear didn't have much longevity, though it was comfortable. Liner? I've tried non-silk ones and though I was well cocooned I did not emerge as a butterfly. Actually I felt more like a trapped, rabid wolverine trying to get out in the middle of the night to keep my bag dry! Getting back in is another story with a bad ending. I've gone to my puffy (which generally is relegated to "clean" use around camp and in the tent, and some light fleece pants. I'd much rather use a military poncho liner or a fleece blanket as an extender. They absolutely kick up the rating 10 degrees.
_________________________
Charlie

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#193495 - 02/05/16 11:52 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: bluefish]
the-gr8t-waldo Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Tacoma, Washington
Well you all saved me 70$! Rather than going the silk route, I think I'll just buy a cheap pair of fleece bottons and start using the puffy jacket. I already use my polyprope thermals . sorry no pics. Maybe I could leave them at home next outing. Thanks to all for the replies


Edited by the-gr8t-waldo (02/05/16 12:16 PM)

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#193497 - 02/05/16 12:13 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3882
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
FWIW I use a Coleman Fleece Bag as a liner and it will give you some added warmth. They claim it adds 12⁰ of extra warmth. I don't about that, but it certainly will keep you warmer. It's not very heavy but I don't know what it actually weighs. Certainly more than a silk liner though.
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#193524 - 02/06/16 11:15 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1146
Loc: Washington State, King County
If warmth-to-weight is your focus, I'd skip the liner in favor of the equivalent weight of additional down in your bag or quilt.

I personally find liners to be a PITA, only use them in hostels and similar situations where they're required. But I know others who really like them, so I think this is yet another area where you're best off establishing your own preference. Perhaps you can borrow one from a friend, promising to gently wash it before returning it? The warmth-to-weight ratio isn't THAT unbalanced, so it's always possible that you'll find that it works for you. One other benefit that liner fans mention is that in warmer weather, sometimes the bag is a bit warm and having the bag as a sort of blanket plus the liner gives them some temperature flexibility.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#193533 - 02/08/16 10:55 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: billstephenson]
Johannes Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/16
Posts: 34
Loc: NE
Originally Posted By billstephenson
FWIW I use a Coleman Fleece Bag as a liner and it will give you some added warmth. They claim it adds 12⁰ of extra warmth. I don't about that, but it certainly will keep you warmer. It's not very heavy but I don't know what it actually weighs. Certainly more than a silk liner though.

From what I can tell online, it weighs 1.5lbs (680g). That's probably not precise, though. Not bad for the comfort and price.
_________________________
"Without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind." - Johannes Brahms

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#193537 - 02/08/16 12:00 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: Johannes]
the-gr8t-waldo Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Tacoma, Washington
24oz's....ouy, that seems alot! I already carry a puffy jacket(costco) that I've never used when sleeping.....Looking back at the last outting, what bothered me the most was cold legs/feet. I like the idea of having clothing that in a pinch could also be used for cold mornings/evenings milling around camp. Fleece pants and down beeine are now on the wish list. And diy fleece booties are in the preliminary planning stage. Fairly sure these should come in at around 8 >10oz

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#193545 - 02/08/16 06:52 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 838
Loc: Torrance, CA
The only experienced backpackers that I have come across that claim to use a silk liner are the ones trying to sell a used sleeping bag.

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#193548 - 02/08/16 08:24 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
Johannes Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/16
Posts: 34
Loc: NE
I agree. 24 oz is pretty heavy. If you're looking for a liner, though, that may be the way to go.
Of course you could bring a blanket for about half the weight or go with a mylar blanket... In my experience, the mylar blankets don't add any warmth of their own. They only preserve existing heat. If you have a sleeping bag or underquilt and/or top quilt already, a mylar blanket or bivy may be just the thing. I have an SOL escape lite bivy and it weighs 148g!
If more layers works for you, that's brilliant. If you're like me, though, you sleep COLD.
_________________________
"Without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind." - Johannes Brahms

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#193550 - 02/08/16 09:34 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: Johannes]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6389
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
My 20* sleeping bag (WM Ultralite size short) weighs only 25 oz. I'm not to sure why I'd want to double the weight to add maybe 10*.

Why not add a few ounces more down instead? Or wear your insulating clothing inside the bag? Or, ir it's below freezing, try a vapor barrier?
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#193553 - 02/09/16 03:06 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: OregonMouse]
the-gr8t-waldo Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Tacoma, Washington
Sorry O.M., I wasn't clear- the mentioned gear was to be worn as part of my sleep system. The current quilt would remain a part of that system.

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#193555 - 02/09/16 07:47 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 677
https://www.heatholders.com/
I've been using these as my sleep socks/back-up, and surprisingly, they work. My wife bought them for winter fishing(wading in 34 degree rivers for hours on end) and they worked so well compared to merino wool blends, I started to use them for backpacking. I question if they'd survive putting lots of miles on them, but I did use them a few weeks ago to hike out 11 miles , as my darn new boots are still breaking in and I had a hot spot developing. They're very soft and warm. 3.7 ozs. on my scale.
_________________________
Charlie

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#193560 - 02/09/16 09:59 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: OregonMouse]
Johannes Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/16
Posts: 34
Loc: NE
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
My 20* sleeping bag (WM Ultralite size short) weighs only 25 oz. I'm not to sure why I'd want to double the weight to add maybe 10*.

Why not add a few ounces more down instead? Or wear your insulating clothing inside the bag? Or, ir it's below freezing, try a vapor barrier?


If there is a reason, it may be...

If you're a hammock camper:
-You may have a very warm underquilt, but no top quilt and you want something over top to trap the heat in. A liner could potentially be lighter or more compact than having extra clothing.

If you're a ground dweller:
-You may have no sewing skills/equipment.
-Money may be more important than weight right now.
-You may not like vapor barriers because you sweat a lot.

If these situations aren't the case, I think your ideas are the way to go, OregonMouse.
_________________________
"Without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind." - Johannes Brahms

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#193562 - 02/09/16 11:07 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: OregonMouse]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1146
Loc: Washington State, King County
You can buy a 40-degree rated quilt that weighs around 12 oz.

Admittedly more expensive than this 24-oz thing, but ... wow. If you're looking to layer your sleep system, I'd think in those terms if $$$ allow this. I have a 30-degree bag and a 40-degree quilt that layer together just fine to provide a good deal of total loft.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#193568 - 02/09/16 02:20 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: BrianLe]
Johannes Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/16
Posts: 34
Loc: NE
That's a pretty good solution, especially if you're looking for a modular system. I may have to steal that.
_________________________
"Without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind." - Johannes Brahms

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#193579 - 02/09/16 08:46 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: Johannes]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1722
Loc: Napa, CA
Originally Posted By Johannes
That's a pretty good solution, especially if you're looking for a modular system. I may have to steal that.


I think you should buy your own, Johannes. ;^)
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#193580 - 02/09/16 09:13 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: balzaccom]
Johannes Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/16
Posts: 34
Loc: NE
Nope. I'm comin' to Napa. I'll drink all your wine, too.
_________________________
"Without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind." - Johannes Brahms

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#193600 - 02/11/16 12:32 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: BrianLe]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3882
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I have to agree with you Brian. I've had that fleece bag for a long time now and it's held up great, but I haven't used it in a few years. I don't think it weighs that much, they come with a stuff sack so maybe with that added to it, but the biggest drawback I found was that it collects dirt and debris like a magnet.

I've got a decent down coat that I wear all day unless it warms up to the 40ºs and if I need too I lay it on top of my bag and it keeps me warm down to the low 20ºs. I'm sure it's not as good as a down quilt though.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#193626 - 02/12/16 07:01 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: Johannes]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1722
Loc: Napa, CA
Sub
Originally Posted By Johannes
Nope. I'm comin' to Napa. I'll drink all your wine, too.


LOL! We sure do K more at home than we do on the trail...
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#194151 - 03/10/16 08:48 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: balzaccom]
rodwha Offline
member

Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Texas...for now
I've been looking at liners as well, though inexpensive ones. For me it's not so much about adding to the warmth as it is keeping my bags cleaner as I have oily skin. And then I figure it would make an excellent summer bag for TX.

I can't wear clothes unless they are tight fitting as I move a lot. But this has me wondering about the liner getting twisted much as clothes would.
_________________________
Bob


"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

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#194158 - 03/10/16 11:08 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: rodwha]
bobito9 Offline
member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 385
yeah, I've wondered about that factor, too, keeping my sleeping bag cleaner. Not just my oily skin but dirt, sunscreen, bug repellent. I really hate washing my sleeping bag, always afraid I'll tear it up. But I suspect the liner would bind up on me.

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#194232 - 03/14/16 02:54 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: bobito9]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2745
Loc: California
My rule is to never wear outer clothing in my sleeping bag. I have a quick drying base layer that I wash every day after hiking and wear that and my summer weight long johns in the bag. I also wash myself (jump in the lake or a bucket bath) at the end of every hiking day. Do it immediately after you stop hiking, when you are already over-heated, and it will not be that bad. Just rinsing off the sweat and dust helps. I have washed my bag once in 10 years. It really did well- even had more loft after I washed it. I think OM posted some really good instructions on how to wash a down bag. I followed her suggestions and it really worked!

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#194235 - 03/14/16 03:08 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: wandering_daisy]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6389
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Not my instructions; they are on the Western Mountaineering website. If those instructions are good enough for the Cadillac of sleeping bags, they're good enough for any down sleeping bag!

Mine also had quite a bit more loft after washing than when I bought it.

I'm not into jumping into cold water, but I do sponge off with a damp rag and lukewarm water (leftover from what I heat for dinner) in the tent at bedtime. I normally wear my base layers to bed--I never wear item for hiking except in colder weather than we get in the Pacific NW, so they never get sweaty. My hiking shirt and pants stay off; if they're damp they go inside a plastic bag and then in the bottom of my sleeping bag (they don't dry but at least they aren't cold when I put them on in the morning!). I also wear a cap to bed, which keeps the sleeping bag hood from picking up hair oils.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#194252 - 03/15/16 01:28 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: OregonMouse]
rodwha Offline
member

Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Texas...for now
I am an exceptionally warm sleeper and the idea of using base clothing to sleep in sounds absurd at first, but then this could easily excuse me for bringing a lighter and smaller bag! Hmmmm....

The thought of a liner screams to me to be twisted and bunching. I'd not sleep well.
_________________________
Bob


"Were I to leave where else would I go? Your words of life and of truth You hold." - Third Day

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#194278 - 03/16/16 10:50 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: OregonMouse]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1146
Loc: Washington State, King County
Quote:
My rule is to never wear outer clothing in my sleeping bag.

Here's a great example of how different people approach things differently.

Unless my clothes are fairly wet, I always wear my outer clothing --- just the same clothing that I hiked in --- in my sleeping bag at night. It's just one less thing. If it's cold enough I'll add a light puffy jacket, and likely a warm hat (I'm bald ...) but otherwise, same clothes.

I've washed my bags more often than once in ten years, but then I've used them quite a bit and haven't washed them THAT often. Maybe twice each? Maybe three times. I've owned these two bags (a 30F and a 20F bag) for quite a few years, and did send them both in to be restuffed (and in fact overstuffed), but I'm confident that this was just to losing down while using the bags, not to washing.

I guess bottom line is that if keeping your bag really clean is important to you, and/or if you just like the process of cleaning up and wearing clean(er) clothes in camp and during the night, the process that WD and OM use is a great one. But FWIW, you can certainly make it work getting in touch with your inner cowboy ("just throw down your bedroll and start sawing logs"). Or perhaps inner hobo is a better (olfactory) comparison.

Note that my process doesn't necessarily save a lot of weight carried, as I do have something to sleep in when my clothes are all wet. But not much --- for me it's typically a light t-shirt and a light pair of shorts, which double for me as 'town' clothes (i.e., clothing I wear in a trail town, resupply stop, when I'm washing my trail clothes).

For so many backpacking "process" things, there's more than one right approach.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#196992 - 11/24/16 05:53 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
EMT Dave Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/24/16
Posts: 14
Loc: MA
I have limited experience but I understand the real reason for using them is to keep the bag clean/er. Seems like they would most be welcome on a long thru hike like the AT.
Perhaps a very light set of long sleeve/ long legged underwear might take its place while serving another function.
But...a big but, is what happens when the weather is hot and you want to be naked?
And what about the twisting about your body question?

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#197003 - 11/28/16 12:27 PM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: EMT Dave]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 838
Loc: Torrance, CA
Originally Posted By EMT Dave
I have limited experience but I understand the real reason for using them is to keep the bag clean/er. Seems like they would most be welcome on a long thru hike like the AT.
Perhaps a very light set of long sleeve/ long legged underwear might take its place while serving another function.
But...a big but, is what happens when the weather is hot and you want to be naked?
And what about the twisting about your body question?


Many of us have found it is more enjoyable to have less weight on your back than to have every luxury on the trail. The only experienced backpacker that I've ever come across who claim to use liners are ones selling a used sleeping bag.

In terms of temperature management in a sleeping bag.... check out quilts!

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#197605 - 02/07/17 09:47 AM Re: silk mummy liners [Re: the-gr8t-waldo]
Ender Offline
member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 779
Loc: ME
I use a silk liner, but not for warmth or to keep the bag clean. I just find it more comfortable, especially in warmer weather when I tend to sleep in less clothing. End result is I don't end up sticking to the nylon of the sleeping bag. And in really hot weather, I push the sleeping bag off to the side and use the liner alone as a sheet, which is just warm enough. So, for me, it's well worth the weight.

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