I am trying to reduce pack weight and not spend a lot of money. I don't know how people can do it! Right now my backpack is the Osprey 65 women's, I have a 2lb sleeping bag, klymit v2 sleeping pad, kelty salida 2 tent, platypus bladder... And that all weighs 12lbs. Add my jetboil, Nalgene, trekking poles, camp stool, canteen cup, charger, 4 liters of water and now it's a little over 25lbs and I still have to add a light, first aid kit, map, extra clothes, toiletry and food...so I'm looking at around 30lbs for a three day trip. I know most don't count food, water and fuel in the lightweight estimates but does it all fit in a lighter pack? What about a bear canister? Is 30lbs a decent weight including food water and fuel for 3 days? How can I go lighter?

Have a look at this:
http://www.pmags.com/dirt-bagging

But in particular, this:
http://www.pmags.com/300-gear-challenge

It is all personal. It depends on your needs/goals for the trip, your skill level, and desire for comfort. I think 30 pounds isn't too bad. That is usually where I end up with food and water.

If you want to go lighter you probably have to leave stuff behind. That is the best and cheapest way to lighten your load. "jetboil, Nalgene, trekking poles, camp stool, canteen cup, charger, 4 liters of water" all of those things would be considered superfluous to many ultralight/superlight backpackers. (not necessarily me... but many). Let's take a look at just those items (you have to decide if they should stay in your pack):

jetboil: no cook foods or an alcohol stove (if legal where you are packing) would be lighter
Nalgene: plain water bottle (that comes with water already in it) is much lighter
trekking poles: not needed depending on your balance/hiking style... many ultralight hikers do use trekking poles
camp stool: sit on the ground, a rock/log, or a piece of foam/sleeping mat
canteen cup: drink out of you water bottle, eat out of your cooking cup
charger: get rid of electronics.. I go backpacking to get away from this stuff
4 liters of water: why so much? If water is available along your hike, just keep refilling and treating water as you go. If you're hiking in the desert, this is probably not enough.

In the end you have to decide what you need. One good rule of thumb is to evaluate how much you actually used each piece of equipment at the end of each trip.

Thanks for the advice! There are several things I don't really need that I will cut out from my pack such as the camp stool. I am new to backpacking but have been car camping since I was a baby and day hiking frequently. Recently started to do weekend backpacking trips and want to work up to a week long trip in the Adirondacks. It is fairly cold most of the year here in NY so I will probably use my winter stuff in the late fall and early spring. Lots of rock scrambles and inclines, I also go snowshoeing and mainly got the trekking poles for that since I fell over a lot last year. I usually day hike without poles, a two liter camelback with two small pockets for granola bars and a small first aid kit, very light. Once I started backpacking I decided I needed everything, then realized I couldn't walk, and am now cutting down weight and taking less each trip.

My camelback froze last time, I figured the Nalgene would hold up better... Or should I just put my camelback in my sleeping bag at night? The hose froze overnight and I have the insulating sleeve for it.

I will look at what I didn't use or eat and take out those items...

That is a heavy tent.... Nearly 5 lbs. for one persons' shelter is pretty darn heavy. You already got some good advice on what to jettison. For me poles are a must, as they take a lot of the strain off my knees coming down off the steeps. I went up Giant a few weeks ago, and would not have made it down without them, though I had to get rid of them for the scramble to the top. You could lose close to 3 lbs. with a different shelter. A garbage bag on a log makes a great seat for me. My wife and I may do an overnight loop of the Tongue Mt. Range this weekend (or go do a bunch of miles in Harriman/Bear Mt.), A nice hike if you haven't.... For a week, depending on how much water has to be carried, we average about 27 for me, 17 for my wife. Add a few to mine for a bear can- have to have them for the Eastern High Peaks http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7225.html., just in case you hadn't run across that. We have a Garcia- the big black keg- which you can do better than for weight and size. Good thing is- you can sit on it! lol

I stopped using a blatter sometime ago and have been happy with that decision. The water always tasted "off" to me. And, at least for me, I would roll into camp with the thing half full having passed streams or lakes every half hour/hour or so. That is an awful lot of weight to be carrying all day for no reason. I do use a wide mouth, nalgene like, bottle because they work better with my steripen, but I carry much less water weight.

I always struggle with food. I usually bring way too much and get home scold myself for bringing soo much food up and down a mountain. Plus I am phat (but with an "f"), so it really wouldn't be all that bad if I went a little hugry on a trip.

I live near the Bear Mountain area and frequently hike Bear Mountain, Harriman, Breakneck, the Gunks, Stormking, etc... All right in my back yard. I like a tent because it keeps bugs out of my face and need a two person for me, the boyfriend and dog. I never use the stakes. Any suggestions for a lighter 2 person tent that packs small?

I live near the Bear Mountain area and frequently hike Bear Mountain, Harriman, Breakneck, the Gunks, Stormking, etc... All right in my back yard. I like a tent because it keeps bugs out of my face and need a two person for me, the boyfriend and dog. I never use the stakes. Any suggestions for a lighter 2 person tent that packs small?

Nich, there's many choices out there, from cottage mfg.s like Tarptent, to bigger mfg.s like Big Agnes and Sierra Design. You can stay under 3 lbs. and still fit a couple of people and a dog in a vestibule. Brian Le talked about his Lightheart in another thread. I looked at the Duo and I would buy it in a minute if my Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 failed. I've been to all the places you mentioned, especially the Gunks when I still climbed, the only one I haven't been to is Breakneck, and another member here, Dylan's dad recommends it highly. I'll get there. I just may end up in Big Hill shelter Sunday night and hope it's clear enough for a view of the skyline. H/BM is an awesome place, I grew up in North Jersey and it feels like home to me, especially the lakes,rock jumbles and old abandoned iron mines . If I have some specific questions for that area, I'll know who to ask. Any snow? We got some in the 'dacks and Greens, I imagine you got a little , but it's gone. Ask specifically about tent choices in another thread or do some research on past posts here. Be specific about your needs and wants and you may get the perfect fit for you. There's a large knowledge base here just in a few people! Experience counts. I hope you stay around and share your trips, it'd be great to hear.

I'll start researching tents. Breakneck is a rock scramble the whole way up, stay to the right of the trail for increased difficulty. It splits toward the back and you can get out towards the north or south, south trail back leads toward the Cornish estate ruins which is also fun and there are trails there and some good overlooks toward cold spring. Don't go to breakneck on a nice weekend, too crowded. There is also a little cave near little stony point across the parking lot of the Cornish estate trail, Anthony's Nose is also a great trail with get views of the bear mountain bridge. We have no snow yet, just flurries and coldness. I went up breakneck last year in snow shoes.. Probably would have been easier in just some boot spikes.

I an a beginner too. All of these guys have way more experience than me but I have done a little research and understand the budget. Get rid of the tent and get a $10 8x10 blue tarp. There are videos on you tub how to make a shelter out of it. You just need a trekking pole, a couple stakes and if you want a guideline. You even have a floor. That will cut 4.5 lbs off your pack. Ditch the jetboil ( i have one too) and make a cat can alcohol stove. get rid off all the water and get a sawyer mini.

While one of the heavy duty blue tarps is an option, it won't work for everyone in every situation. You may need bug protection depending on where and when you go. Also, I don't think you'll save 4.5 pounds. Maybe 2 pounds, those things are heavy! Factor in the weight of the trekking poles, and (depending on model) you're right back where you started.

Having said all of that ^, if you're going out in winter or somewhere bugs aren't much of an issue (the desert?), the blue tarp would be a great way to save money. And believe me, I understand how important that is! Furthermore, if you go somewhere where you can depend on there being plenty of deadfall to rig up as supports (or just rig to trees), you wouldn't have bring the poles.

The 25 buck Sawyer mini is a good choice- just don't let it freeze, I keep mine in a pocket. Saves you from boiling water to drink, and allows for filling up in a puddle that's 3" deep. I use a 2 liter Evernew as a "dirty bag", instead of the small one supplied with the filter. Bring a paper coffee filter to take out the big stuff like leaf matter. Unless I'm in the desert somewhere or forced to dry camp, I rarely carry more than 2 quarts. Tarps are useful and cheap, but I've spent too many nights getting spindrift, dust, sand and sideways rain on me. Did it for years. Blue tarps aren't light, they weigh almost as much as a tent (near 2 lbs.). By the time you add some mesh for mosquitos, guylines and stakes, you're still cheap , but not that protected and getting on the heavy side. Tents will also add warmth when its chill. Sil-nylon tarps are lighter and far stronger. Blue tarps SHRED in heavy wind. I've been a builder and using them for 40 years, they will not withstand wind over 30. My wife put her foot down long ago- No tarps! They're the same material as you find in garbage Wal-Mart tents. The same ones you find filling dumpsters in campgrounds after storms. I often bring a 6 by 8 sil-nylon tarp for a cooking shelter when we expect rain. I pay the 1 lb. penalty for the luxury of having it. The tent you have is heavy, but you can put it in another perspective if you like it and don't wish to upgrade. Shelter weight is divided by the number of people using it. With that formula, you're significant other gets half the weight like the fly and poles, leaving you with 2 1/4 lbs. in your pack, rather than the full weight. When we brought our Lab, may she rest in peace, I found tarp camping was out, as she would get up and investigate noises in the night and I'd constantly be calling and fussing after her. When she was semi-enclosed in a vestibule or lying between/on us, she'd settle in and be far less inclined to chase the noises and smells of the night.
The Sawyer suggestion can save you some real weight. If you aren't carrying an extra 2 qts. of water, that's 4 lbs less- basically the same as buying a Cuben Fiber shelter as a tent replacement that will go north of 800 bucks. Food is another heavy item- look at it closely and you can pare some weight there, too. Clothes also can add tons of excess weight. You need enough to keep you warm and dry, not enough to keep you sweating from carrying them around!
Until I was 50, I carried a 90 liter pack, often with full SLR camera gear and a tripod. fishing equipment, and lots of luxury items. You do sound as if you're very active and healthy. That's a great, great thing; IMO, fitness will outdo weight savings by a long shot. That's not to say some weight savings won't make things more enjoyable and help you go farther.

Clear plastic "Visqueen" works good too. You can buy a grommet kit and tape the corners with duct tape to reinforce them, and even tape seams to make a tent.

You can also use those SOL emergency blankets and tape to make a UL tent. It's a lighter and stronger plastic. I've been using one I made for a few years now and it's held up well. I bring a few yards of duct tape for repairs and I've used it a few times, but the repairs have all worked fine.

I went through all this about ten years ago and got my 7-day total pack weight down to about 25 pounds. Of course a lot of that gear is now 10 years old (I have only two items younger than 5 years, except for non-durable supplies), so my gear list is no longer valid as far as models go. Here are some gear lists to look at, to compare to your own for suggestions:

The home page of this site, left hand column, especially the "27-lb., 7-day gear list." If you read the articles there, you'll find lots of ideas for lightening up. The "27-lb., 7-day gear list" was my model (more for weight than for models/brands) when I started lightening up.

Phat's gear lists in his "sticky" post at the top of the Backcountry Beginners section of this forum. He's from Canada just east of the Rockies, so is in a very cold region.

Lots of stuff on PMag's blog--here is one, but look for more in past blogs:
The Budget Backpacking Kit (New, and a step up from his "frugal" and "$300 challenge" lists)

Our very own Topshot's thesis, written for Scouts but equally good for the rest of us.

Andrew Skurka's gear list template with lots of ideas. I recommend his other articles, too.

Section Hiker , one of my favorite blogs, has lots of articles on gear as well as New England hiking. He provides an index to his articles so that, for example, you can look for "Tents."

This one is, IMHO, rather extreme, designed for the Southwestern US in very mild weather. I'd most definitely add at least more insulation and a more supportive pack! But it does show what's possible if you don't mind sacrificing some comfort and are in dry, mild weather and have lots of experience coping when conditions get nasty. Will Rietveld's Mountain SuperUltraLight Gear List

Why don't you use the stakes? Even free-standing tents should be staked or guylined down so they won't blow away.

I always set up and climb inside or put my pack in to weigh it down. We also try to set up in the tree line or near a ridge so the wind is blocked and it is warmer. I avoid camping on an open peak where there is a lot of wind and nothing to block it. Also if I am on a windy peak it's too rocky for stakes anyway. If I'm going car camping or staying in the same spot for more than one night I use stakes and guy lines.

Thanks for the links

Thanks for the links

Hi Nich!
I'm just spit-balling here, so take what you want from it:

When weather permits, take just the rain fly or just the tent.
If you're not already, use a tyvek ground cloth.
You sit on the groundcloth instead of a camp stool.
Ditch the Nalgene for a smart water bottle (surprisingly durable)
By all means, bring enough water, but 4 liters?! That's reasonable if you mean for the three of you combined. Correct me if that's what you meant or not.
Consider taking less toiletries with you (but don't skimp on TP!)
If a bear canister is not required in your area, go with an UrSack or other bear bag.
Consider leaving some/all of your extra clothes at home or choose lighter ones.
Modify your existing gear (be safe).
Share the load with your BF.
Get a dog pack so your dog can carry his/her own food and water.
Try using a homemade alcohol stove or going no cook.

You're already doing the best thing possible - research!

Hope this helps. Cheers!

Just don't let this happen to you




When I was overnight in the Boulderfield on Longs Peak, I certainly used lines attached to rocks to keep my shelter from having a chance of leaving without me.

You have gotten some great advice. If I were you, I would wait a little to ditch the tent. Make your boyfriend carry more of it! Now you are at least down to 2.5 lbs. The first thing to look at is water. Out here in the Rocky Mountains, it is very dry. I rarely carry more than 1 liter of water. Water is your heaviest item. Every time you walk past a water source, think about how much water you have on your person. Sure, you don't want to stop at every water source to fill up, but after 5 or 6.... 1 liter is a good amount of water. I ditched my camelback and have no regrets. If I know it will freeze overnight, a bottle is much easier to manage. I will carry a metal bottle in the winter, a little heavier, but I can put it next to the morning fire and thaw out any frozen water. If I don't carry the metal bottle (think the other 3 seasons) then early spring or late fall, the bottle gets put in the bottom of my sleeping bag. I carry a gatorade bottle instead of a nalgene. It even came with free gatorade inside. It is much lighter than a nalgene.
After you look at water, look at your clothes. Most people take too many "extra" clothes.
After clothes, then look at food. Obviously everyone is different, but 1.5 lbs of food per meal is a good target.
Get a light flashlight or headlamp. Ditch the camp stool. Ditch the charger and bring a few extra batteries for the flashlight and maybe your gps and camera. Turn your phone off at the trailhead, take out the battery and store both separately in plastic bags. Look at an alternative to the canteen cup.
After you have done all that...look at the jetboil. You will have to do comparisons knowing a lot of variables to decide if it is worth changing out. Of course, you could just buy another stove and see if you like it better.
And then....look at your tent. I would put it last on your priority list, especially if you share it. If you are going solo with the dog, then maybe move the tent farther up the priority list.

water needs depend on you and trail. 4 liters will cover me for a long time. You can treat water as you go along if there are streams/rivers.

i use a thermarest sleeping pad as my camp stool. If you're bringing bear cans, I sit on that.

for water 1l aquafina or smartwater bottles lighter. treatment i use aquamira.

alcohol stove vs stove depends on how many times you boil water. gas stove actually beats it in weight as you use more fuel since it's more efficient. i cook for 2-4 people so i use the cheapy amazon $10 stove

If you are going solo, I just cook out of pot and eat out of it.

for you first aid I keep mine minimal. a few of each item in a ziploc bag.

costco has carbon fiber trekking poles for 30 right now.

You got some good advice, now I'm just going to throw in some light-weight cheap food advice: if you want to save money don't bother with that freeze-dried backpacking food in pouches. Expensive, and I personally don't think it generally tastes good either. If you have a dehydrator, you can make your own stuff cheaply. But if you don't have a dehydrator (I don't), try some of the dry types of soup-in-a-cup products like Nile Spice and Dr McDougall's make. Cheap and light, and taste decent, I think. I usually add some olive oil, maybe a few sun dried tomatoes, a clove of garlic, a bit of cheese, walnuts, whatever, to add some flavor. They also don't require cooking, just add boiling water (though I usually cook them a minute or so). You can also often buy bulk type products like that at health food stores. I also use a lot of powdered instant hummous: just add water and ready to go. I prefer to add a bit of olive oil to it for flavor and eat it on crackers. Pretty cheap.Also you can buy couscous in a box or bulk: cheap, takes no cooking, just add boiling water, salt, and a spoonful of olive oil (are you seeing a pattern here? and let sit. But couscous alone is bland, so it's good to doctor it up with some sort of flavors.