Hi all!

I need your help and recommendation about my sleeping bag.

So the question are:

- I am looking for spring, summer and early autumn bag.

- I am expecting to sleep in single layer tent (cotton/poly) and also outside with no bivy

- I am expecting to have external temperatures outside (tent or no tent) around -2C to 20C.

- I am not a cold sleeper and I usually have some base layer on (merino) when sleeping.

- I prefer having collar option just in case but not sure if I really need it for this temp range.

- full zip is a must to be able to use bag as quilt

- prefer snap zip closure compare to velcro (FF or PHD can do this), from reading reviews people hate WM velcro zip closure.



I am looking into below bags where i put some short comments on each , like pros and cons for me.

1. WM UltraLite - collar, might be to warm for my usage but i am on safe side here.

2. 4. WM AlpinLite - same as Ultralite but bigger.

3. WM SummerLite - no collar, nice summer bag but it might not enough for temperatures lower than 0C ?, to narrow for me

4. WM MegaLite - more down as SummerLite, top inner collar, up to -2C, wider cut-not sure if i prefer it

5. PHD Minim 400 (not sure if you know this UK based company)- CUSTOM DESIGN: I would add Drishell-PU coating, inner collar, mummy hood, full zip

6. FeatheredFriends Swallow or Osprey - both no collars, reading down fill weight seems both are warmer compare to SummerLite or Ultralite. Material similar to Drishell (PU coatings on back fabric)

7. WM Apache MF - collar, better material compare to SummerLite or Ultralite, still not as water resistant as Drishell or Pertex Endurance (FF bags). I guess also to warm for my needs which means extra weight which is not needed. On the list just because of good deal at the moment.

I am 181cm, 75kg, around chest 98cm , around arms in chest area 120cm.

Looking into WM i am thorn between narrow (150cm shoulder area) or wider cut like MegaLite or AlpinLite.

Anyway i just want to get one bag quiver as much as possible.

Thank you for help.

Take care.

First, temperature ratings: You've answered the "do you sleep warm or cold?" question, but I include it here for others: If you look at the EN13537 ratings, you'll notice that there's about a 10*F (about 5-6*C, I think) difference. Despite the labels on the ratings, whether you want the "comfort" or the "lower limit" depends more on your metabolism than your sex! While WM, for a reason I've never understood, doesn't publish the EN13537 ratings on their website, you can find those ratings on sites for outdoor gear retailers in the UK (which we Amercans with our antiquated measurement system will have to convert from Celcius to Fahrenheit).

Second, rather than looking at average temperatures, look at record low temperatures for the time of year at the place you'll be backpacking and take 5* to 10*F above that. Be sure also to compensate for altitude. Frankly, I haven't found that the tent configuration makes any difference. Even with a double-layer tent, you still need to keep it ventilated to avoid condensation, especially when it's cold. The EN ratings are based on the dummy's wearing a base layer and a knit cap. For 20*F ratings, the pad used for testing has an R rating of 5.

Third, the dimensions of the bag are extremely important, both girth and length. Please note that shoulder girth is NOT your chest measurement! For shoulder girth measure over your arms at the widest part of your shoulders while wearing your puffiest insulated jacket (if you get a really cold night, you'll need it). and add maybe two inches for ease so you don't compress the insulation. Also, if you're on the borderline between sizes for height, get the longer size, especially if you sleep on your back stretched out. When you relax in sleep, your toes point downward, adding as much as 2 inches to your body length. If you always sleep curled up on your side, that won't matter so much.

Re the waterproof coating--please avoid it! While you want the shell of your sleeping bag to be water repellent (Durable Water Repellant or DWR), you do NOT want it to be waterproof! The primary source of moisture in a tent or a bivy is your own body (what's technically known as "insensible perspiration.") With a DWR treated shell, our body heat forces that moisture out of the bag. With a waterproof coating, even if advertised as "breathable," that moisture is locked inside the bag with your insulation, which will be soggy by morning. I've found that the DWR coating on my WM bag is sufficient to repel condensation falling off a single wall tent (such as when my late dog woke up and started his Labrador tail-wag routine before I had a chance to wipe down the tent walls). It will also repel dew. Waterproof/breathable (WPB) fabrics such as Goretex are definitely not breathable enough for this purpose.

Re the velcro--I passionately hate velcro, and I have a WM bag. The velcro patch on it is so small that I really don't notice it. But this is strictly personal preference.

The other two companies you mention (FF and PhD) are equally good. As pointed out, you can get more custom options--if you're willing to pay for them. But make sure the outer shell of your bag is fully breathable--water repellent, but not waterproof.

I suggest that if you post to a site where most participants are U.S.-based, you'll have better luck if you translate centimeters and kilograms to inches and pounds, rather than expecting each and every reader to be willing to do so in order to be able to understand and respond. We can certainly do it, but I at least am disinclined to bother since I'm responding to your question ...

So with that bit of grumpiness out of the way ...

I have both a WM Summerlite and Ultralite. I'm about 5'10" tall (it's 2.54 centimeters per inch), and I feel like the summerlite was designed for me personally. It's indeed not super roomy inside, but it's roomy enough. I wouldn't want to be much taller, or at least not and zip it up and cinch it down completely in mummy bag fashion. And if you're trying to stretch to use a single bag in various conditions, that can certainly happen.

One option you can consider is to ask WM to "overstuff" the bag. Not a lot, but a single ounce (that's about 28 grams ...) of additional down can make a real difference, so long as it's not over-overstuffed, i.e., just too crammed in there such that it makes things worse rather than better.

When you say "I am expecting to have external temperatures outside (tent or no tent) around -2C to 20C.", it needs some interpretation. Per previous reply, is -2C (28.4F) the absolute lowest temp on record for where you're hiking, or I'd guess more likely is it an annual average low?

Some consider the best way is to think in terms of "what I'll be comfortable at" versus "what I'll survive at". You want to survive at something approaching reasonable historic lows, depending on your appetite for risk I guess, and be comfortable at most of what you're likely to encounter. This gets tricky, and is one of many things that makes these recommendations difficult. I personally am okay taking just a dash of cold discomfort if temps are a fair bit lower than normal, as opposed to the discomfort of a needlessly heavy bag. But I pretty much always want to survive (!). If your 28.4F to 68F temp range is "historic average", I might or might not be okay with my overstuffed summerlite, depending very much about other dynamics of landscape and trail, and the pad I'm sleeping on, and certainly on the clothing I'd be wearing inside.

I suspect you'll be better off with a stock 20F bag of good quality, such as the Ultralite.

This isn't easy!!