#187343 - 10/10/1412:57 PMCheap clothing system for >20 deg F?
carbeque
member
Registered: 09/30/14
Posts: 42
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Hello everyone,
I'm putting together a lightweight set of gear for 3-season hiking in the Sierra Nevada mountains. I don't expect to be hiking (intentionally) in the rain, in the snow, etc., but I do want to be comfortable if it dips to about 20 at night. I'm not new to hiking, but I am new to trying to do it in a weight-conscious way, and I'm relatively new to layered clothing (I'm usually a T-shirt and big jacket guy). I'm 5'10", 220lb, and am comfortable over a fairly wide range of temperatures.
I'm not looking to jump into high-dollar clothing (Marmot, Patagonia, etc.) at this point... I'd like to try to put together a layered clothing system for under $120 or so. Based on the research I've done so far, it looks like I'd likely need the following (and I'm sure this is a dead horse that has been beaten repeatedly around here):
- Wicking base layer (short sleeve shirt and boxer briefs?) - Synthetic, quick-drying long-sleeve shirt and lightweight pants - Synthetic fleece jacket and longjohns (under the above pants) as an insulating layer - Set of Frogg Toggs as a shell if wind, rain, or cold penetrate the above - Decent fleece gloves and wool hiking socks - I like to hike in running shoes... Does anyone have experience with some kind of shoe cover that will help thermal performance when in camp, or is that even the best option? I was even considering buying a pair of very large fleece slippers with vinyl soles and wearing them over my running shoes in camp. ;-) Maybe fleece shoe covers with a nylon outer cover would be a good MYOG project?
I plan to have my wife cruise the thrift stores for a decent fleece jacket, as she likes a good thrift store treasure hunt, but I'll buy the rest of the items new. I'm looking for products you might find at Walmart, Target, Sears, stuff like that... I don't need $50 underwear, even if I do gain a few ounces. My goal is a 22-pound, 3-day setup and I figure I can devote 5 pounds to clothing.
I'm putting together a lightweight set of gear for 3-season hiking in the Sierra Nevada mountains. I don't expect to be hiking (intentionally) in the rain, in the snow, etc., but I do want to be comfortable if it dips to about 20 at night. I'm not new to hiking, but I am new to trying to do it in a weight-conscious way, and I'm relatively new to layered clothing (I'm usually a T-shirt and big jacket guy). I'm 5'10", 220lb, and am comfortable over a fairly wide range of temperatures.
I'm not looking to jump into high-dollar clothing (Marmot, Patagonia, etc.) at this point... I'd like to try to put together a layered clothing system for under $120 or so. Based on the research I've done so far, it looks like I'd likely need the following (and I'm sure this is a dead horse that has been beaten repeatedly around here):
- Wicking base layer (short sleeve shirt and boxer briefs?) - Synthetic, quick-drying long-sleeve shirt and lightweight pants - Synthetic fleece jacket and longjohns (under the above pants) as an insulating layer - Set of Frogg Toggs as a shell if wind, rain, or cold penetrate the above - Decent fleece gloves and wool hiking socks - I like to hike in running shoes... Does anyone have experience with some kind of shoe cover that will help thermal performance when in camp, or is that even the best option? I was even considering buying a pair of very large fleece slippers with vinyl soles and wearing them over my running shoes in camp. ;-) Maybe fleece shoe covers with a nylon outer cover would be a good MYOG project?
I plan to have my wife cruise the thrift stores for a decent fleece jacket, as she likes a good thrift store treasure hunt, but I'll buy the rest of the items new. I'm looking for products you might find at Walmart, Target, Sears, stuff like that... I don't need $50 underwear, even if I do gain a few ounces. My goal is a 22-pound, 3-day setup and I figure I can devote 5 pounds to clothing.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
-Rodney
Hi Rodney,
I might make it to about freezing at high altitudes with that kit but definitely need more to get to 20. The basics are there and there are a gazillion options in each category, so you should be able to get them within budget through careful shopping.
I think you're a layer short. I'd want a LS zip-neck midweight shirt, either wool or fleece, plus an insulated vest or jacket, either polyfill or down. If a jacket, make it a hoody. Fleece jackets are bulky and IMHO don't layer well, as they tend to bunch up. Nylon shell vests layer really well but some folks don't like vests in general.
Mittens instead of gloves (perhaps thin liner gloves to go with), a second dry, thick pair of socks to use with yout hiking shoes in camp, a knit cap/beanie of some kind and I think you're set. No experience with Frogg Toggs, so can't comment other than be careful about ripping them.
Yup, I think that would be great paired with an insulated vest or jacket. Me like!
Wanted to add that I'm usually coldest between arriving at camp and eating dinner. Once I'm dry, rehydrated and fed I'm always warmer, even though the temperature keeps dropping through the night. (Unless it's raining, then I just want to dive into bed.)
I notice this more the higher I go and the difference between, say, 7k and 11k can be startling. I've taken to carrying a poofy hooded down parka because I know I can throw it on when this happens for instant warmth. Some days I need it and others I don't wear it at all. How long and tough the trail day was plays a part.
Second addendum: I don't use my trail shirt and boxers in camp because I want to dry them out overnight, so I carry a second, lightweight wicking t-shirt and boxers just for camp. Some might consider this excess luxury--I consider it an opportunity to de-stink.
#187352 - 10/10/1403:16 PMRe: Cheap clothing system for >20 deg F?
[Re: carbeque]
4evrplan
member
Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Sgt. Rock has an excellent article about staying warm. Two particular jewels of advice he offers are 1) you can use an army surplus jacket liner as your "puffy layer" for about $10 - $15 and 2) you can keep your feet warm in running shoes with Gore-Tex socks. I would add that there are probably other sock options that will work equally well. Just be sure to pick a material that insulates when wet.
_________________________
The journey is more important than the destination.
I generally don't worry about the weight of the clothes I'll wear all day.
My North Face synthetic fleece works well in a wide range of temperatures. The brand isn't important, but having a synthetic fleece works well for me. If it gets wet from perspiration, it still keeps me warm. It dries quickly when I stop for the day. I've seen many similar fleeces for about $40 in places like Big 'R.
For the inner layer in cold weather, I use military long underwear. They are about $10 each for the top and bottom. Probably $15 by now.
The fleece is the only piece of hiking specific clothes I wear now.
You don't have a rain jacket on your list. I live in Colorado, and snow in the mountains is a given when I go hiking in the winter. There are almost always some localized storms in the valleys. Nothing serious, but it will get your clothes wet without a rain jacket. The rain jacket doubles as a windbreaker, and keeps damp inner layers from being cold.
I use wool socks for mittens. I don't need them often enough to pay for real mittens. My hands are normally warm enough while hiking.
Hiking pants have been the most useless piece of hiking specific gear I ever bought. They don't last long and they aren't enough when it gets below freezing. I wear cargo pants most of the year, and when it gets colder I wear *gasp* jeans. They only get wet around the ankles when hiking in snow, and that's not a problem. I have an inexpensive pair of Dry Duck rain pants to put over them if it's raining. The jeans are heavier than hiking pants, but it eliminates the long john bottoms.
I think what you will find is people make many different choices based on their preferences and how much money they can spend. The way to find out what works for you is to get out and walk in all kinds of weather. Most likely, you already have most of the clothes you would need.
My first trips in the Sierra were in a Russian great coat and a fur hat I bought in a Bishop thrift store in the 70's. Repelled snow and I had an army poncho that served as raingear and shelter. I slept in the coat and hat- no sleeping bag. It worked! My most important piece of gear is a warm hat, which I think isn't mentioned. It aids sleeping and temperature moderation on the trail. I also use mine as my cozy to rehydrate food. Most of my backpack clothing has come from thrift stores or from on line classifieds. I also like a mid layer of fleece. If you can find some cheap felt pac boot replacement liners (like Sorels) you can cut them down a bit in height and put a velcro closure across to hold them on a bit more snugly. I smeared shoe goop on the bottom to make a sole . Pretty warm and comfy.
#187366 - 10/12/1412:41 AMRe: Cheap clothing system for >20 deg F?
[Re: bluefish]
carbeque
member
Registered: 09/30/14
Posts: 42
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Thanks for the input, guys! Those military long underwear are a great deal... I may spring for some of those. Also, I already have a decent beanie, so yeah, I'd bring that for sure. The Frogg Toggs in my list was actually a full suit (even though it just shows a pair of pants in the photo), so the rain jacket's covered.
#187372 - 10/13/1411:43 AMRe: Cheap clothing system for >20 deg F?
[Re: carbeque]
finallyME
member
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
If you are looking at thrift store stuff....
Look for polyester or nylon running pants. You might even have a pair in your closet. Walmart sells them for about $10. If you really want the convertible pants (I love mine), then look at cheaper big box sporting good stores like Big 5 or Dick's. I don't know what stores are in your area. You can generally get the pants for around $20.
I have always found fleece at thrift stores. It is hard not to buy them all the time.
Walmart and other big box sporting good stores will also sell polyester long johns. Just make sure they are 100% polyester...no cotton.
Spend the money on wool socks....just saying. I hike in tennis shoes (trail runners). All I need are thick wool socks and I can go below 30.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.
What is most important for nights into the 20's is a good sleeping bag. Do not go cheap on that.
Get a balaclava in addition to a fleece or wool cap. It is amazing how much warmth this 3 oz item adds.
If you do 3-season in the Sierra, you may run into rain or snow. I quit taking rain pants, but still take a rain jacket. I never "intend" on hiking in the rain, but sometimes have to do it. The rain jacket can also be worn simply for added warmth. I always have my jacket on in the morning when it is cold.
I have found some of the cheap fleece found at big box stores is inferior fleece. Not all fleece is created equally. The cheap fleece tends to create a lot of static, pills, and makes me sweat (it is not very breathable). I would rather wear good quality wool from a second hand store than poor fleece. I get my 100-wt fleece zip front shirts at Lands End (in Sears stores) when they have Christmas sales, for about $20.
If you really look out for sales, you can get some pretty good stuff about half price. Also, I wear a lot of my backpacking fleece as casual wear in town too. Everything does not have to be dedicated backpack clothing.
You simply have to spend quite a bit of money to get to "ultra-light". You can however get to simple "light" at much less cost. For example I bought a Montbell down sweater that is 4 oz. for $120 (on sale). I also have a non-brand "puff" jacket from Target for $50 weighing 6 oz. They are the same warmth. I am not sure that 2 oz weight savings is worth $70. Had I found the Target jacket first, I would not have invested in the other high-tech jacket.
All that said, I have seldom regretted investing in high quality clothing. You can watch for sales and gradually accumulate better stuff.
- The Wigwam socks don't say they are made of wool. What is the purpose of a sock liner? - I use those briefs. I like them pretty well. Haven't tried wool, but I suppose they would be better? - I just use old dress slacks for hiking. I have a ton of them, as someone gave me theirs when they grew out of them. - What are the jacket and pant liners, filled with? - I ordered this rain poncho that has a built-in pack cover, but have yet to receive it: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-Colors-...1773270202.html - I also got this light down jacket for $38. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Uniql0-st...2025918397.html (That is my review at the bottom. I was rather harsh, but only because it didn't look as pictured. The jacket itself is awesome. For the XL, you should be 5'11" tall, and have a 34" to 36" waist (XL).
edit: sorry, just noticed this conversation is rather old
#187985 - 12/11/1402:18 PMRe: Cheap clothing system for >20 deg F?
[Re: carbeque]
Jim M
member
Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 430
Loc: Kitsap Peninsula, WA
Interesting comment RE vests. I had not used them because they weigh almost as much as a vest with sleeves (commonly called a jacket, or sweater). However, one day last week when I got out of the car at the trailhead it was like frigging freezing so I left my vest on that I had previously planned on leaving in the car. I have to say it was a great discovery. What I liked was the fact it made me "feel" warm, but never too warm. I think it keeps the core warm without trapping sweat. I used to put on a wind shirt in those situations, but then it was off and on again with changing conditions. I think the vest covers a wider variety of conditions: Humidity, temperature and sweat rates. It would also be a nice extra if you were benighted!
#188038 - 12/14/1410:58 PMRe: Cheap clothing system for >20 deg F?
[Re: carbeque]
Matt Keenan
member
Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 23
Loc: California
Love this thread very interesting stuff! I think vests are the best value for the warmth to weight ratio. Fleece are easy to find at thrift stores and last forever!
If you have a big enough shell you can wrap your sleeping bag around you under it for extra warmth. This also gets you bed nice and toasty
This system sounds good for 3 season sierra country, where I spend most of my time. I have found doing things like camping away from water and in the natural protection of the forest to be much warmer and really help me "push" my systems. You can always do some push ups and take a hot water bottle to bed if your really cold.
I would love to here how all the pieces work out especially the army surplus stuff! Happy trails Matt
Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:
Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
Previous Topic
Index
