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#186891 - 09/01/14 01:06 AM medical kit
Newlite Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/01/14
Posts: 1
Wondering if anyone has found a good pack or container for a medical kit. Specific tackle box or other idea? Thanks

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#186894 - 09/01/14 09:41 AM Re: medical kit [Re: Newlite]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
A one gallon freezer bag.
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#186910 - 09/01/14 04:12 PM Re: medical kit [Re: Gershon]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6371
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
A one-quart freezer bag. Unless you're carrying a kit for a group, the probability of an emergency you can't improvise for in a party of one or two is extremely small. (A Wilderness First Aid course will teach you how to improvise!) My "emergencies" consist of small cuts and the occasional dreaded infected hangnail, requiring bandaids and a small amount of antibiotic ointment. I'm also prepared for blisters, although since I switched from boots to trail runners, I haven't had any. I've encountered a sprained ankle exactly once in 70 years of backpacking and horsepacking. I was prepared (it happened a week ago Saturday), but now I need to buy another roll of veterinary wrap and add duct tape to my trekking poles to replace what I used on my grandson (who is almost completely recovered). The duct tape over vet wrap worked extremely well, BTW.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#186935 - 09/02/14 12:39 PM Re: medical kit [Re: OregonMouse]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 829
Loc: Torrance, CA
yup... I agree with OM. the 1 qt. freezer bags are perfect. Lightweight, the right size, and you can see where everything is. I am going about 4 years on my current bag. If it tears or rips I will sadly eat the 10 cent cost and replace it with another one.

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#187002 - 09/05/14 01:50 PM Re: medical kit [Re: Newlite]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I carry a kit for the group. My group mainly consists of boy scouts. Because boy scouts are accident prone, and I want to stay away from law suits because I didn't carry something, my kit is probably bigger than most here. Of course, it is smaller than a lot of other kits with the same purpose.

When I hike alone or with my kids, a quart freezer bag does the trick. If you want to go heavier duty, try an Aloksak.

As for something heavy duty, this is what I use to carry my group kit in. Rip away EMT pouch
They also make a smaller one.
small rip away pouch
Here is a review I did on the pouch.
pouch review
And here is a description of its contents.
first aid kit
I built this kit for backpacking with scouts, but have pretty much taken it everywhere else we go over the last year+.
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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#187003 - 09/05/14 05:02 PM Re: medical kit [Re: finallyME]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 829
Loc: Torrance, CA
Originally Posted By finallyME
I carry a kit for the group. My group mainly consists of boy scouts. Because boy scouts are accident prone, and I want to stay away from law suits because I didn't carry something, my kit is probably bigger than most here. Of course, it is smaller than a lot of other kits with the same purpose.

... here is a description of its contents.
first aid kit
I built this kit for backpacking with scouts, but have pretty much taken it everywhere else we go over the last year+.


First, thanks for opening up the bag and showing everyone exactly what you bring.

I am not medically trained, but I have spent a bit of time thinking about these kinds of things. I had some comments... perhaps they will stir up internal or external debates:

You mention going out with a lot of boys and having a fear of a lawsuit, but if you have something you do not know how to use you are exposing yourself to a lawsuit.

You seem to have an awful lot of iodine. That stuff is a poison and can do more harm than good if used incorrectly. Do you have training on its correct usage? If so, what situation are you anticipating needing so much?

You seem to have multiple items to handle severe bleeding wounds. Using any one of those items would result in a canceled trip. Having a backup seems like a good idea, but multiple layers of backups seems like overkill.

I am surprised you would bring an aide for performing CPR breaths. Seems like a nice to have item to get over swapping spit with a random stranger, not a medical necessity. And as you mentioned current CPR training seems to downplay breathing.

The four sets of gloves also seem over precautious, but I guess I could seem not wanting to introduce infection into a wound.

And finally, if you don't know what the pills do, they shouldn't be in your pack.

I am wondering what people with wilderness first aid training or those involved with SARs think of your kit?

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#187005 - 09/05/14 05:57 PM Re: medical kit [Re: BZH]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah

Thanks for the comments, hopefully I can answer some of your questions.

Originally Posted By BZH

You mention going out with a lot of boys and having a fear of a lawsuit, but if you have something you do not know how to use you are exposing yourself to a lawsuit.

Only if I use it. I think the sutures were the only thing in there that I don't know how to use. I would never use them. However, if there is a doctor around who wanted to use them..... That being said, the steristrips can pretty much cover any need to suture, so real sutures aren't necessary.

Originally Posted By BZH

You seem to have an awful lot of iodine. That stuff is a poison and can do more harm than good if used incorrectly. Do you have training on its correct usage? If so, what situation are you anticipating needing so much?

There is only one bag of liquid iodine. That means one time use. The purpose is for irrigation of a wound. I would fill up my 1.5 liter water bag, dump in the iodine, and use the syringe to irrigate. I am also not a medical professional, however, iodine is used in hospitals in that fashion, and the product was designed specifically for that purpose as well.

Originally Posted By BZH

You seem to have multiple items to handle severe bleeding wounds. Using any one of those items would result in a canceled trip. Having a backup seems like a good idea, but multiple layers of backups seems like overkill.

There are three items for severe bleeding: the compressed gauze, the quick clot, and the izzy bandage. They aren't really backup for each other. They are meant to stack on top of each other. If those don't stop the bleeding, and a tourniquet doesn't, then no helicopter will get there fast enough. And, yeah, if I pull them out, the trip is over.

Originally Posted By BZH

I am surprised you would bring an aide for performing CPR breaths. Seems like a nice to have item to get over swapping spit with a random stranger, not a medical necessity. And as you mentioned current CPR training seems to downplay breathing.

I agree. I think I pulled this out of this kit and put it in my car kit. It has been a while since I did the video.

Originally Posted By BZH

The four sets of gloves also seem over precautious, but I guess I could seem not wanting to introduce infection into a wound.

There are 4 gloves, which makes 2 sets.

Originally Posted By BZH

And finally, if you don't know what the pills do, they shouldn't be in your pack.

They are Benedryl. I found some website that lets you identify unknown medication.

Originally Posted By BZH

I am wondering what people with wilderness first aid training or those involved with SARs think of your kit?


So do I. I asked a lot of medical professionals about this, but I don't think I asked a SAR or someone with wilderness first aid. I asked an emergency room doctor who was also in the infantry, and loves to backpack. His wife is also a doctor and I asked her, she is also in the military. I asked a nurse who camps a lot, but no backpacking.

Of course, then there is all the people online. Most people on the survival/bushcraft forums say I need to put more in it. I figured this site would say I need less. I don't dare post it on BPL, that's just crazy.
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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#187007 - 09/05/14 06:31 PM Re: medical kit [Re: finallyME]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1339
Loc: Southwest Ohio
The point about bringing things that you do not use, but someone else might, is a good one with Scouts. When I had a troop, it seemed like there were always extraneous folks around - a couple dads volunteer to go along, we're on a Scout property where there are lots of adults around (not all scout outings are backpack trips), etc. It seemed like there was always someone around with a higher level of expertise, but no supplies. So, I can see how carrying stuff you don't know how to use can make sense.

Of course, you shouldn't be counting on those random adults just showing up. But I'll bet you aren't.

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#187008 - 09/05/14 06:45 PM Re: medical kit [Re: Glenn Roberts]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6371
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
IMHO, the important thing when leading a group, especially a youth group, is to keep certified in, at the minimum, Wilderness First Aid. Better yet, become certified as a Wilderness First Responder.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#187010 - 09/05/14 07:29 PM Re: medical kit [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1339
Loc: Southwest Ohio
You're absolutely right - there's no substitute for getting the training; knowing how to use it is always best. My Scouting days are 20 years gone; they may have rules about where you can take kids without some sort of training now.

But, second best is having stuff other properly trained people can use - and being smart enough not to take the kids where there's absolutely no chance of those properly trained persons showing up.

Actually, that's third best. Second best is carrying stuff other people know how to use - and being smart enough to get those people to agree to go with you.

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#187028 - 09/08/14 09:33 AM Re: medical kit [Re: Glenn Roberts]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By Glenn Roberts
You're absolutely right - there's no substitute for getting the training; knowing how to use it is always best. My Scouting days are 20 years gone; they may have rules about where you can take kids without some sort of training now.

But, second best is having stuff other properly trained people can use - and being smart enough not to take the kids where there's absolutely no chance of those properly trained persons showing up.

Actually, that's third best. Second best is carrying stuff other people know how to use - and being smart enough to get those people to agree to go with you.


I still go back and forth with this one. Like I said before, the sutures are the only thing in there that I don't have training for. However, I don't think they apply. I can easily take them out of my kit (and I probably will) and still have that function covered with the steri-strips, and butterfly bandages. I can also use tape as well. But, there are other things that I don't have that I have considered taking. One is a Nasopharyngeal airway. I asked my doctor friend about it, and he said that I had to have training to use it, or lawsuits are inevitable. I thought about it because it would help with a severe allergic reaction that is blocking the airway. The best answer is that I get the training. But, it is light, and if someone else had the training.....I still don't carry it though.
For a FAK that you keep in your car, or home, I think that having it even without training is a good practice. But do we apply the same rules to backpacking? In the end, we are trying to save weight.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#187051 - 09/10/14 07:22 AM Re: medical kit [Re: finallyME]
Glenn Roberts Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 1339
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I have to disagree on a minor point here. Backpacking is not about saving weight. It's about saving unnecessary weight. Even in the 70s, there were two rules about backpacking weight:

1. If you need it, take it.
2. Minimize the weight of the stuff you need so far as function and budget allow.

Taking a 40-degree bag to save 6 ounces when the forecast is for 20 degree temperatures, and hoping that sleeping in your clothes will make up the difference, is not a valid go-light strategy (in my opinion. I think this may be getting toward what Andrew Skurka calls "stupid light.")

Replacing the stainless steel 2-pot-and-lid cookset with a titanium mug, and using freezer-bag cooking to replace the bowl, makes sense.

Leaving stuff out of your FAK simply because it's heavy isn't smart. Leaving it out because it's not needed based on risk assessment on that trip, or replacing it with something lighter, are reasonable. Eliminating the suture kit is an example of the first; replacing the 300-count aspirin bottle with 10 aspirin in a zip-loc bag is an example of the latter.

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