Out here in the West, many jurisdictions now ban alcohol stoves during fire season--especially after several major alcohol-stove-caused fires the past few years. Many jurisdictions insist on stoves with on/off valves and often require stoves that are UL certified. The rules, of course, vary by jurisdiction (a real pain if you're passing through, for example, several national forests) and by the fire danger conditions at a specific time.

Especially in dry conditions, you definitely don't want to go off and do something else while your stove is operating!

I own both alcohol and canister stoves, but invariably when I'm packing up, I grab the canister stove. It's a lot more convenient.

For trips of 7 days or more, the combination of stove + fuel is actually lighter for a canister stove. stove weight vs. time over 14 days.

The almost-empty canisters can be used for car-camping or one-night trips. The canisters can also be recycled once completely empty. It's easy to tell how much fuel is left in a canister by weighing it (most canisters show full and empty weight). All you need to do is to do some testing with cold water on your patio to find out how much fuel is used for your average boil.

This is speculation, but I imagine it has to do with liability, especially in light of everything OM said.

“For trips of 7 days or more, the combination of stove + fuel is actually lighter for a canister stove. stove weight vs. time over 14 days.”

Yea, that link needs updating. It’s been there for at least 10+ years. Maybe add a pepsi stove for comparison. Lets look at 10 days – though this is rare even for any thru hiker (plan for 4 or 5 day refill).



In the above setup it is assumed the canister and alcy will use the same type/weight of pot and boiling the same volume of water so that is out of the calculation. And I use an alcy efficiency 0.75 mass-oz/meal. it’s usually 0.50mass-oz/meal but I just wanted to point out that there’s a lot of playing room with alcy and yet it still comes out with less weight.

Now how about a Jetboil? You’ll see even a greater weight difference (in AvgWeight/day).


“But, something just occurred to me: why have none of the major makers (MSR, Snow Peak, Coleman/Peak 1, etc.) come out with a version of the alcohol stove?”

Good question since they’re used heavy in marine and artic conditions. At least Evernew and Trangia have enjoyed success.

-Barry

If I were to take a medium canister (8 oz fuel) on a 10-day trip not only would I NOT have 3.5 oz of fuel remaining on the last day, I likely would run out of fuel before the end of the trip. (I actually cook food, not just boil water). I can generally squeeze 8-9 days from the medium size canister. In your analysis the reason that the canister average is heavier than the alcohol is that the standard size of fuel canisters do not match the trip requirement. An apples to apples comparison would start by using up all the fuel in the canister, take that many days and compare the equivalent alcohol stove weights.

My guess is they wouldn't have a monopoly on the fuel.

Stoves that run on alcohol have been around for decades. They are called multi-fuel stoves and are used by mountaineers who do international climbing. These are not lightweight stoves.

I suspect the reason that no manufacturer has made a ultra-light commercial alcohol stove is that it cannot meet safety standards. To make it meet safety standards, it would be heavy enough to defeat the purpose of using an alcohol stove.

“An apples to apples comparison would start by using up all the fuel in the canister, take that many days and compare the equivalent alcohol stove weights.”

That’s a good scientific test. But real life apples to apples for me would be “What’s your (1-8) day weight?” of which alcy is lightest. But that’s because alcy has infinite container weights while canister only has two. Even at 20 days where alcy is lightest, that esbit is looking mighty good. There is one day where alcy = canister (9th day with NO breathing room) but beyond that, bang, canister weight goes up. And most of us resupply at 4-5 days anyway.

+1 Gershon’s reason of some manufacturers not making alcy stoves (maintain monopoly).

-Barry
-The mountains were made for Tevas

Maybe this thread should be changed to "How much thinking is too much thinking." My brain is fried.

The place I save the most weight is in not bringing extra food. Yesterday I came back with only a serving of oatmeal. I think on the next trip, I'll pre-calculate the calories I'll burn and only bring that much food. Along the way, I'll plan to lose 1/4 pound a day.

On the other hand, maybe I should lose 10 pounds in the next month and plan to break even on calorie consumption and burn.

next trip, I'll pre-calculate the calories I'll burn and only bring that much food

I assemble and prepackage each meal I intend to eat on a solo backpack. Even though I try to inject some variety from one day top the next, it always ends up very close to 28 oz per day and somewhere between 3000 and 3100 calories. The longer the trip, the less likely I have any food left over at the end, unless I purposely brought a small emergency ration I never intended to eat.

I disagree! How can you say "most of us" re-ration 4-5 days? That is a very short ration period. My typical ration is 9-10 days. One week book-ended by two weekends is very common for those who work and have the one-week vacation. 8-9 days is also what I can stuff in one bear canister (mostly required here in the Sierra). On the other end, a weekend trip 2-3 days is probably the most common. Thing about the weekend trip is that food and fuel weight is minimal, regardless of type of stove, thus less critical.

I say take whatever stove you feel most comfortable cooking on, and one that matches your cooking style. Long distance through hikers are NOT the norm. They have a very specific style where the 4-5 day ration may be the most common. I bet the thru-hiker vs Average Joe backpacker is 1000:1.

I agree with W_D. Most "working stiffs" I know go out for a week plus the two weekends--9 days. That was the normal "long trip" while I was working and belonged to an active hiking/backpacking/mountaineering club. If the trip involved a really long drive, we would leave Friday at 5, drive (taking turns and supported by lots of caffeine) until well into the wee hours Saturday, start backpacking Saturday (definitely sleep-deprived!), backpack 8 days and start the drive home Sunday morning. At least with that schedule there was no problem sleeping Saturday night!

The alternative for most of those who work is going out Friday evening through Sunday, thus taking no time off work and being out for only 2 days (3 days if it's a holiday weekend, althouth those involve more time stuck in traffic).

I repeat what W_D says--only a few backpackers are thru-hikers, and they are definitely not the norm! Very, very few people can afford to take 6 months out of their lives--most of us have demanding careers and dependents to support. And that short a resupply period means a lot more hitchiking and going off trail, which slows down the hike.

The difference with being retired is that I can go out weekdays and avoid the crowds on weekends, especially holiday weekends. If it's a longer trip, I'm out at the farthest distance from the trailhead by the weekend, escaping most of the crowds. 'Tis wonderful!

As I mentioned earlier, in times of extreme fire danger, it doesn't matter what stove/fuel system you prefer--at those times the only legal options are canister, liquid gas/kerosene (unacceptably heavy for most of us), or rehydrating your food in cold water.

OM, even in very popular areas, one can leave the crowds behind about 4-5 miles in. Desolation Wilderness, Yose etc.
Duane

For me this chart is accurate and reflects why I switched to the SuperCat stove.

Fuel is easy to get, fairly inexpensive, the setup is dependable, and nothing I'm aware of is lighter for the way I backpack.

I can pretty much get a new stove and fuel at most any convenience store right here in the Ozarks. That's a hard one to beat.

But like any gear, it depends on your style. Mine has evolved a lot since I became a member here. I had to ease into lighter food.

That's true. I seldom saw a soul when I wondered around Sequoia NF. The NP was crowded in the usual spots but even there a few miles away in any direction was pretty much empty of any other people.

I got a couple free Starlyte stoves, the regular and modified. They work very will with my Caldera Cone set up. Have not tried the carbon felt simmer ring for it yet. Too bad the season for a alcohol stove does not extend into summer with fire restrictions coming earlier.
Duane