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#184426 - 04/11/14 03:08 PM Weights for glass water bottles
mekineer Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 71
I am interested in carrying a glass water bottle on backpacking trips, because I like good tasting, healthy water.

Last time, I took a VOSS glass water bottle, which is really heavy. The plus side, is that I was able to put the bottle leaning on a rock in the fire pit, and heat up some soup (without the plastic lid). It didn't crack, and it was fun to watch the soup circulate in the bottle. The soup on the side closer to the fire moved up the bottle. I guess you could do the same with stainless steel.

Unless someone can convince me that their foldable water bottle doesn't add anything bad to their water (even if they say BPA free, bound to release other yuckies). Is there a plastic capable of not polluting your water?
What I mean by foldable water bottle:
http://www.bellahoo.com/catalog/1500-1999/1674-Foldable-Water-Bottle_1200.jpg

Or that a vintage leather water bottle is the way to go (how are they coated on the inside?). http://www.ampro.co.nz/products/lake/PK1000.jpg

If not that, I would like to know the lightest weight water bottle, that still has a protective sleeve. I just sent an email to Lifefactory to ask how much their 22oz bottle weighs when empty.

I started this thinking glass was the way to go, but I'm open to a good conversation. For example, a stainless steel water bottle doubles as something to cook soup in. Can you then go without taking a pot? Wouldn't a stainless salad bowl be a better multi-purpose pot/pan?

Should I move this topic out of the lightweight zone, since lightweight is a secondary consideration? I do want to find the lightest solution that fits the other considerations.


Edited by mekineer (04/11/14 03:51 PM)

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#184430 - 04/11/14 04:12 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2861
Loc: Portland, OR
As a moderator, I took the initiative and moved this from the Lightweight Zone to Health and Safety, because that seemed to be the main concern driving the thread topic.

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#184431 - 04/11/14 04:29 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
mekineer Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 71
Don't get me wrong. I would like to hear from the lightweight folks too. Knowledge and experience are hard to beat.

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#184433 - 04/11/14 05:17 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2802
Loc: NorCal
Without addressing the potential exposure route of water stored briefly in various plastic containers, I'll suggest a Sigg aluminum bottle. Very light and coated with an inert inner liner.

Sigg coating technology

MSR no longer makes titanium bottles, which were the bee's knees.

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#184440 - 04/11/14 08:59 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 749
Loc: Eastern Sierras
No way I would use glass. Most metal bottles have a plastic coating, Vargo BOT is Titanium and uncoated but expensive and I've read the lids are almost impossible to open at elevation. What about an old army aluminum canteen?
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#184441 - 04/12/14 07:54 AM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
A one quart canning jar with the lid weighs 406 grams or 0.93 pounds. Many people carry a comfort item with them to address their biggest fears, and this weight could fall in that category.

A quart should be good enough for many hikes, but I'd carry spare water in a lightweight plastic bottle in case the glass one breaks.

A pint canning jar with the lid weighs 196 grams. If you are planning to cook in one, I'd suggest carrying a spare lid with a few little holes punched in it. I'd also suggest trying this outside at home and wearing safety glasses while trying it. I think you will find it takes too long to cook in glass, even if it does work.

If it's an overnight trip, consider carrying a good bit of water as fresh fruit and raw vegetables. Fruit and vegetables are about 70% water, and contain good energy, too. Be sure to pack out any part you don't eat. Eat these in the first part of the hike so you don't have to carry them too far.

Don't be afraid to experiment, as that's how people learn new things. Most experiments won't work, but that's important information, too. Then when you get old and gray, you can smile at the youngsters and tell them not to be afraid to experiment. Learning is a big part of the fun.
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#184443 - 04/12/14 01:08 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Rick points out that water is generally only stored in a container for a short time which minimizes the leaching of any chemicals, so there is that to consider. Time, Heat, and Light, are things to minimize when storing water and none of those are difficult to manage.

Now, what I now is use a collapsible bottle that is made by Enfamil, which is very similar to what you're linking to. These will accept very nicely a activated charcoal filter made by Britta .

This combination is very light, very packable, and offers some protection against at least some of the contaminants that may be in the water.

I can't convince myself that the bottle or even the filter doesn't add anything bad, but I am convinced it does remove things that I can taste and I know are bad.
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#184445 - 04/12/14 01:38 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
mekineer Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 71
LifeFactory got back to me: The 22oz glass bottle with coating weighs ~1.15 lb. I've had some bladders that add a plastic taste to water even after a couple hours. However, the point you guys have brought up, about leaching taking time, gives me some bravery to try out lighter options.


Edited by mekineer (04/12/14 01:39 PM)

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#184448 - 04/12/14 02:55 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I've been looking for something to carry my water in at Civil War reenactments, where of course a plastic bottle is very anachronistic (or "farby," as we reenactors call it). The choice is between glass (with a cork stopper) or a gourd. Gourds are lighter! Yes, the soldiers used metal canteens, but a military canteen is not something a civilian, especially a lady, would carry. MYO gourd canteen.

No, I haven't tried this yet….


Edited by OregonMouse (04/12/14 02:56 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#184449 - 04/12/14 03:02 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: OregonMouse]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 749
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
I've been looking for something to carry my water in at Civil War reenactments, where of course a plastic bottle is very anachronistic (or "farby," as we reenactors call it). The choice is between glass (with a cork stopper) or a gourd. Gourds are lighter! Yes, the soldiers used metal canteens, but a military canteen is not something a civilian, especially a lady, would carry. MYO gourd canteen.

No, I haven't tried this yet….
I expected you guys all to caring bladders from a cow for water. Or you could do as the Indians and do a water jug with sap as a water proofer.
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#184451 - 04/12/14 03:19 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: OregonMouse]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2861
Loc: Portland, OR
Would not a "lady" have had someone who carried her water on her behalf? wink

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#184458 - 04/12/14 07:16 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
mekineer Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 71
I have an stainless steel, I think... could be aluminum? bottle that weighs 5 oz. Someone threw it out... looks new.

Rockchucker22, your gourd looks awesome, and I may try making one in the future.

The leather bota's, commercial, seem to be lined with latex, and would be kind of hard to clean.


Edited by mekineer (04/12/14 07:19 PM)

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#184459 - 04/12/14 07:38 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1155
Loc: Florida panhandle
I'm partial to titanium myself, but that's me. If you like glass containers I'll suggest looking for pyrex labware. Pyrex ends to be a more durable glass. Use your favorite internet search engine to look for "laboratory glassware with glass stopper" or similar to find a container in which only glass comes in contact with the water.



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#184460 - 04/12/14 07:48 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: PerryMK]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 749
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Borosilicate glass is what lab glass is and it is stronger, more heat resistant but also heavier.
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#184470 - 04/13/14 02:07 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2752
Loc: California
This seems a non-issue. The "nasties" you get from breathing smoke from a campfire are probably more harmful than anything from a plastic bottle if it is emptied daily. I would be more worried about microorganism in the water - Giardia, parasites, etc.

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#184471 - 04/13/14 02:27 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: wandering_daisy]
ETSU Pride Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 931
Loc: Knoxville, TN
I have a Nalgene water bottle at work in the fridge. It always has water in it and stays in the fridge. I guess I'm not worried about yucky stuff....

I have one question about carrying a glass bottle: what happens if you fall and break it? I don't think it be much fun carrying broken glasses in my pack.


Edited by ETSU Pride (04/13/14 02:27 PM)
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It is one of the blessings of wilderness life that it shows us how few things we need in order to be perfectly happy.-- Horace Kephart

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#184474 - 04/13/14 04:28 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: aimless]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Quote:
Would not a "lady" have had someone who carried her water on her behalf? wink


Only if she were wealthy, such as from the Southern planter class. Back then, a "lady" was not necessarily upper class or wealthy, just a respectable woman. Of course few women wanted to be known as "unladylike."

On the occasions when I'm a cook or laundress attached to a military unit, I can of course carry some military gear. The group I joined, though, is more into civilian activities.


Edited by OregonMouse (04/13/14 04:32 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#184481 - 04/13/14 11:51 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
mekineer Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 71
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/02/134196209/study-most-plastics-leach-hormone-like-chemicals
"But Bittner says consumers should be encouraged that at least some plastic products had no estrogen-like activity. He says that shows it is possible to make these products."
Ugh...
"And a few observed that Bittner has a financial interest in the testing lab and in a company involved in making plastic products that don't release estrogenic chemicals."


Edited by mekineer (04/13/14 11:52 PM)

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#184490 - 04/14/14 01:44 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
This is why I use an activated charcoal filter. They clean water via chemical adsorption. There are caveats. The longer the water is exposed to the charcoal the more contaminants will be removed, and they don't kill or filter bacteria and viruses.

You can always boil water to kill bacteria and viruses so that's not hard to deal with if you're worried about it. There are places I hike where I don't worry about it.

It's worth pointing out that you need water. You can't let weight or inconvenience or fear of contamination keep you from staying hydrated. That can be as bad or worse than trace amounts of chemicals or bugs.

I'd carry stainless steel before I'd carry glass though. I wouldn't want to deal with broken glass.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#184496 - 04/14/14 04:22 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2861
Loc: Portland, OR
If the entire concern is over leeching from the container into the water, then what you need is an inert surface that won't leech. Stainless steel is just as inert as glass for all practical purposes and it can be made lighter than glass because it is so much stronger that it can have much thinner walls, with the added benefit of not shattering if there is an impact.

If you are very sensitive to changes in how water tastes, stainless steel still ought to pass muster, but my taste buds are not yours, so you might be able to detect some metallic taste that I cannot.

My own thought on the subject is that avoiding ingesting or inhaling all petrochemicals is utterly impossible in the world we live in. If you live in a city, you are exposed all day long, every moment. The added risk from a plastic water bottle on a backpack is not going to change the odds of unwanted health effects enough to matter. There are much broader and more meaningful changes you can adopt instead.

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#184548 - 04/17/14 01:54 AM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: aimless]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I think the whole scare about water bottles is overblown. Billions of gallons of store bought water are drunk from bottles every year without an epidemic of whatever it is that they supposedly are doing to you, at least as far as I know. Of course, it could be a conspiracy to keep us complacent. Remember when fluoride was a Communist plot? Probably before your time, but it was what a lot of people believed and some still do.
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Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#184550 - 04/17/14 08:03 AM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: mekineer]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1155
Loc: Florida panhandle
If glass is what one wants, I believe some thermoses are glass lined, but with either a stainless teel or plastic screw top lid. This would be less fragile than a plain glass bottle although I would still suggest one avoid dropping it. These can shatter if one puts ice in them though. Don't ask me how I know this.

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#184551 - 04/17/14 11:11 AM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: TomD]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 749
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By TomD
I think the whole scare about water bottles is overblown. Billions of gallons of store bought water are drunk from bottles every year without an epidemic of whatever it is that they supposedly are doing to you, at least as far as I know. Of course, it could be a conspiracy to keep us complacent. Remember when fluoride was a Communist plot? Probably before your time, but it was what a lot of people believed and some still do.
I tend to agree, I think the whole thing is overblown. But tell my wife, as sone as the BPA scare happened she tossed all my nalgenes' ! I wasn't happy but she insisted.


Edited by rockchucker22 (04/17/14 11:11 AM)
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

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#184559 - 04/17/14 12:56 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: TomD]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Overblown or not it's still better to err on the side of caution.

I don't trust corporations at all. Corporations will kill you for money. Some even specialize in it (Lockheed, General Dynamics, Boeing, Northrop).

Others just because it's inconvenient or costly to change, like GM ignition switches, gas tanks in GM pickup trucks or Ford's Pinto. Dupont's Teflon (which is basically made from fluoride). Asbestos.

One can take worrying about this too far, but ignoring known risks can be risky and so can the risks you don't know about. crazy
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#184568 - 04/17/14 04:30 PM Re: Weights for glass water bottles [Re: billstephenson]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2752
Loc: California
I used to do water quality testing. I know we had certain non-glass sample bottles that were designed to be non-reactive. There also are specialized plastic bags that do not "bleed" plastic into samples (if you are also worried about carrying backpack food in a bag). If you have a water quality laboratory near you, visit them and see if they will sell you some bottles. You can find suppliers on the internet, but many will not sell a small quantity to individuals.

I feel the risk of a plastic water bottle is worth the trade-off to have a lighter pack when backpacking. I think if you buy high quality (like Platypus), not some off-brand knock off, the risk is a bit smaller.

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