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#182964 - 02/17/14 03:37 PM Heel problems
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
As I've gotten older, my feet have expanded and I seem to have started to have a propensity for heel blisters. It's happened with numbers of shoes, from Sorels while snowshoeing, to very well broken in Danners and Keens. Even trail runners on occasion. I've thought about using a liner sock to reduce friction. Good idea? Are silk ones good? Any spray- ons or other solutions? I'm wearing mole skin on one heel right now; 8 miles with the snow platforms gave me a good hot spot yesterday. mad
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Charlie

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#182989 - 02/18/14 02:07 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
ndwoods Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 572
Loc: Santa Cruz CA, Sierra Hiker
My hubbie has had the same prob...no solution yet, other than duct tape!:)
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http://ndeewoods.com/ and http://wilderstatepark.com/

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#182992 - 02/18/14 07:18 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: ndwoods]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Bluefish,

This is going to be a long post, so bear with me. Hopefully it will have the solution to your problems. I’m 60 years old and healthy. First of all, I’ve never had a blister which either means I’m lucky or I’m good at avoiding blisters. I walk close to nine miles a day as I don’t like to drive, so I walk almost everywhere. Plus it gives me an excuse to get out of the house. I don’t have any callouses on my feet, so that’s not what is creating the solution.

First, for the benefit of others with less experience, the right socks will cure many problems. I prefer Thorlo as they are synthetic, but feel like wool to me. My second choice is Smartwool, but they can smell nasty if they get wet. Finally, Rawlings wool socks work well and are inexpensive compared to Smartwool and Thorlo.

The key to preventing blisters is preventing the top layer of skin from separating from the underlying layer of skin. Generally, people seek to avoid friction on the top layer, so I’ll address that first. When I buy hiking shoes, I put Duct Tape or Gorilla Tape on the spots that will wear. This does increase the motion of the heel, but it decreases the ability to separate the layers of skin. This probably won’t solve your problem.

You mentioned you tried Keen shoes and I have also. I wear a size 11 ½ EE shoe, and Keen’s are the only ones with a toe box big enough for my feet. The problem is, the heels are lower, and I suspect they would lead to Achilles tendon problems if I used them too often.

I don’t think a sock liner will work for you as it seldom worked for people in the military, but it’s worth a try.

Now, I’m going to step into the first solution that people will likely object to. As I mentioned before, preventing motion is the first line of defense. This cannot be done with a low cut shoe or even what they now call hiking boots. I call these high top hiking shoes as they are not truly a boot.
Hiking shoes do not conform well to the feet as well as a leather boot. Leather boots get more comfortable the longer they are worn, and will eventually stop almost all motion of the heel inside the boot. I’m not talking about traditional hiking boots or combat boots which are agony. The solution I’ve found which works the best is the Danner GTX roughcut combat boots. The first day out of the box, I walked 17 miles with no problems. They are the footwear I take on long hikes. The leather has taken the shape of my heels and ankles which prevents motion. The Gortex liner slips a little bit to take the friction of any motion. They are completely waterproof, but do not feel hot.

I’ve walked over 1,500 miles in these boots, and they are the most comfortable footwear I’ve ever worn. They show very little signs of wear. They are the top boot bought by soldiers going to Afghanistan who decide not to take the issue boots. They are designed for a 180 day deployment to Afghanistan with no repairs. Don’t be afraid of the weight as they make up for it in stability and what’s called an energy return system.

Finally, you are getting older and your body is changing, but it doesn’t have to change too much. Everyone talks about curing blisters by external means, and I’ve never heard anyone mention diet. The skin is one of the first organs to feel the effects of a poor diet although it’s so gradual few people notice it. The first internal symptom people often complain about is pains in the gut between the sternum and the beltline. People call it celiac disease, heartburn, acid reflux disease, irritable bowel syndrome, inflammation and other terms. They are almost all caused by the same thing. A poor diet. It’s easy to do in this world of poison laced processed foods and eating too often at fast food restaurants. The way things have changed, almost every restaurant serves fast food quality. Since switching to a vegan diet, my skin is suppler and it has better tone. There have been many positive changes. If you are at all interested in learning about diet issues, I’d suggest the book “Fit for Life, not Fat for Life,” which you can get on Amazon. For many reasons, meat is bad for people and they shouldn’t eat it. This is especially true in today’s world of feedlot meat which is laced with antibiotics, growth hormones, additives and who knows what else. Vegan is not Oreos and potato chips. It is fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains in as close to their natural form as possible.

Since you didn’t have blisters until recently, I feel changing your diet has the best chance of working.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#182993 - 02/18/14 08:06 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: Gershon]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
Gershon, thanks for the in depth answer. You're absolutely right- the problem is complex and can have a number of solutions. I wear the Keen's exactly as you said - for the wide toe box. Danner does make phenomenal boots. The one pair of boots that does not bother me are my Wolverine work boots. If they weren't steel toes, I'd just wear them. We eat fairly healthily, though we aren't vegetarians. I use Smart Wools and a sock that is called the World's Softest Sock, which seems to be a synthetic that mimics Merino or Alpaca. I may try some moisturizers to add some elasticity back to my skin, and at worst I may just buy a pair of those Danners. I have a pair of high backpackers that have been through 3 re-soles. I still have them, but alas my feet grew and they didn't. I can only wear them with a liner sock now. They also have very little cushioning, and no room for an insole, which does not seem to be good for my knees. I wore my Keens yesterday snowshoeing and locked my heels down with the laces.
Though the moleskin helped, no further damage was done and I felt no pain. If I go back to a higher boot that locks my heel down, the problem will be solved, I think. I may avoid putting long distances on my Sorels- they're warm, but not meant for long walks with your feet slipping up and down inside the liners. Between all the your suggestions, Gershon, a solution is to be found. Thanks, much! I appreciate your knowledge and the effort in replying.
_________________________
Charlie

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#182994 - 02/18/14 08:28 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
PerryMK Online   content
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1391
Loc: Florida panhandle
I've recently discivered heat moldable insoles. These can help with a proper fit.

www.yoursole.com


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#182996 - 02/18/14 08:42 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Bluefish,
My fastest footwear for road walking is a pair of heavy Red Wing 8 inch boots.I didn't mention them as they are totally unsuitable for backpacking. They are heavy and don't grip well on trails. The heels wear rapidly, but I keep them covered with Gorilla tape to prevent that.

Soft skin comes from inside, not outside. Poisons are eliminated from the body in four ways. Urine, Feces, air in the lungs and through the skin. It can also be stored in fat and in the liver to be released later when the body decides it can handle it.

I'm somewhat evangelical about a vegan diet, so I'd rather refer you to one of the best books I've read on the subject: "The Itinerary of a Breakfast" by John Kellogg. It was written in the early 1900's after he studied over 100,000 patients. You can get it for 99 cents on Amazon for your Kindle, or you can read it for free online at www.archive.org.

The book also gives a cure to constipation which over 90% of the population has even though most don't know it.

The only downside to being vegan is apparently I would taste better to cannibals.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#182999 - 02/18/14 01:31 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: PerryMK]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
Originally Posted By PerryMK
I've recently discivered heat moldable insoles. These can help with a proper fit.

www.yoursole.com


Thanks, Perry, they look like a good product.
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Charlie

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#183002 - 02/18/14 03:06 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: Gershon]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Just the opposite: I've never had a serious blister since I ditched the boots and went exclusively to trail runners. In addition, I've had less fatigue, fewer (in fact, none) turned ankles, fewer balance issues. I also wear Smartwool PhD socks which conform better to my feet---they don't slip around as much as most socks.

Feet are extremely individual. I believe that each person needs to experiment with shoe fit, socks, diet, conditioning and the many other factors involved to find out what works for them as an individual.

In other words, YMMV!!!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#183005 - 02/18/14 04:28 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Shoes are extremely personal as you can see by OM and Gershon's replies above. Get shoes that fit your feet today... not ones that fit your feet yesterday. Foot shape changes with time, so go see if you can find a better fitting shoe.

Blisters are caused by many factors but mostly by shoes trying to change the shape of your feet. Moisture and heat do seem to make blisters worse, which is why I would be leary of advice to use GTX boots. Perhaps in Afghanistan, where it is very dry, keeping every ounce of moisture possible in your foot is for the best.

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#183007 - 02/18/14 05:17 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: BZH]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By BZH
Shoes are extremely personal as you can see by OM and Gershon's replies above. Get shoes that fit your feet today... not ones that fit your feet yesterday. Foot shape changes with time, so go see if you can find a better fitting shoe.

Blisters are caused by many factors but mostly by shoes trying to change the shape of your feet. Moisture and heat do seem to make blisters worse, which is why I would be leary of advice to use GTX boots. Perhaps in Afghanistan, where it is very dry, keeping every ounce of moisture possible in your foot is for the best.


I use the GTX boots year round in Colorado. They are excellent in every type of weather and they breathe very well.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#183008 - 02/18/14 06:47 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
jimmyb Offline
member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 276
I sincerely wish you luck with this one. I am lucky when it comes to blisters on the feet, I don't really get them unless there is something abrasive in my shoe.

I'm in the BZH camp of making sure the fit is right "now". I have had to ditch a few pairs of footwear this year after aging feet outgrew them. They began to rub my toes raw resulting in nasty soars on the tips of my toes. I do have big problems with the cold that also contributed to this but I think in many case that friction and moisture lend greatly to any foot problems. I know I get wicked blisters on my hands when I rake leaves without gloves and that is purely friction related.

I would approach it more or less scientifically changing one variable at a time to see what actually eliminates the problem, then you might be able to apply it to all your footwear.

Hoping for a blister free future, smile jimmyb




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#183013 - 02/18/14 08:46 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: jimmyb]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
Thanks, Jimmy. I got the blister somewhere you may be familiar with, on the Taconic Trail going north from Petersburg Pass.

We went out past the Snowhole to Pownal Point. If you're unfamiliar, I'll gladly fill you in or point you in the right direction. A little southwest of Williamstown. The trail was broken in for the most part, but some was busting through the 3'+ of cement. Tough shoeing...
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Charlie

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#183032 - 02/19/14 05:39 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Quote:
I use the GTX boots year round in Colorado. They are excellent in every type of weather and they breathe very well.


I hate to sound as though i'm picking on Gershon again here. I'm not! I just want to point out, once again, that everyone's feet are different! Goretex turns my feet into a sauna. Also, when water got inside (bound to happen sooner or later), the Goretex lined boots took a long time to dry. Been there, done that--in Colorado, in fact--even setting the boots out in the lovely warm sunshine and breeze, it took two days to get the insides dry.

With trail runners, I can splash through a ford (no bothering with changing shoes) and walk shoes and socks dry in an hour. For snow, I have a pair of lightweight insulated boots to wear over them. I must admit I haven't done enough long snow hikes to determine if the overboots make a difference.

Your Mileage May and probably will Vary.

Bluefish, looks like a lovely trip despite the blisters!



Edited by OregonMouse (02/19/14 05:45 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#183034 - 02/19/14 06:15 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: OregonMouse]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Just ran into this, about taping feet before a hike:
Blister prevention

EDIT, LATER: I personally haven't had much luck with this--I end up with tape stuck to my socks instead--but a lot of folks do this.


Edited by OregonMouse (02/19/14 11:35 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#183037 - 02/19/14 11:16 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: OregonMouse]
orclwzrd Offline
member

Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 82
Loc: Illinois(I just live here)
I'll personally swear by leukotape! it sticks for days and where it sticks no blisters happen! After 65 miles in September with wet feet for 4 days the only places I had blisters were where I had peeled off the tape and not replaced it. Stupid me.

John

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#183038 - 02/19/14 11:17 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
jimmyb Offline
member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 276
Blue, looks like your breaking some trail there... goodjob

We have been on the Southern part of the Taconic trail on some dayhikes in the Alander mt area. There the trail, if I recall correctly, was a high ridge line kind of trail. I do remember some very pretty views overlooking the NY border.

I had been looking at possibly some BPing on the trail but as I recall it was short on designated camping and I wasn't sure what the reg.'s were. How is the northern part of the trail for BPing in the spring/summer/fall? Any time you have info on good hiking spots in our area don't hesitate to fill us in.

Thanks for the pics, jimmyb


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#183045 - 02/20/14 08:20 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: jimmyb]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
Jimmy, you are absolutely correct on sparse camping areas. I was on the extreme northern section where it passes from Williams College land onto NYS forest land, and thus becomes legal camping. Some of the southern sections like Alander, I camped on 30 some years ago when the restrictions were far fewer. Nancy and I looked into doing the Taconic Trail as a local thru-hike, but it seems impossible with the lack of designated camp sites. I don't consider camping at places like Bash-Bish Falls campground doable. Without a car, people in the campground would assume you were homeless. grin
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Charlie

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#183046 - 02/20/14 08:37 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: OregonMouse]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
OregonMouse,

I don't feel picked on at all. I think it's a given that people's feet vary. I also think it's a given that next to stoves, footwear is probably the subject most likely to create controversy.

The only reason I brought up the Danner combat boots is because Bluefish had a specific problem and a specific type of feet. He also hadn't been able to resolve it in other ways.

One thing I will say is the modern combat boot is probably the most studied and tested boot in history and putting it in a broad category of "boots" is an unfair comparison. Soon, I'll be writing a blog post on this boot with some research to back up my findings. When I do, I'll post the link.

I will say the boot is totally unsuitable for trail running except at 180 paces per minute with a 40 inch stride.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#183054 - 02/20/14 11:42 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: Gershon]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
What's wrong with this forum? Perfect opportunities arise for slander and disrespectful, harmful ego-battles, and people just merrily continue being informative and polite. grin Once again, thanks to all. Between the great info and advice given, I'll find a solution for every situation.
_________________________
Charlie

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#183116 - 02/22/14 03:24 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
and not all of us wear trail runners. I spend more time in boots than trail runners. too many places I go are off trail and a bit rough. Danners are a good suggestion if your feet like them. I prefer hanwags (German boot) but if you find a place to buy them be careful.. I found mine actually lightened my total load over trail runners because of the incredible mass of cash they removed from my wallet so I didn't need to carry it around..
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Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
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#183118 - 02/22/14 10:05 AM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Bluefish,

There have been too many times in my life that I was against something until I was for it. This may be one of those times where it is time for me to switch sides and see what the trail running shoes are like. I was thinking of getting the Brooks Cascadia, but I'll see what they have.

Gershon

(Good one, Phat.)
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#183157 - 02/23/14 08:54 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: Gershon]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
Did a lot of miles in wet, sloppy conditions this weekend, in and out of snowshoes. First day was in high, insulated waterproof boots and I got another blister. I went to an outdoor store Sat. night and bought some Smartwool liner socks. Today's hike was in my Keen light hikers, Darn Tough light hiking socks over the liners, and with doing absolutely nothing to the blister, it was the best my feet have done in quite some time. For me, I need the heat and moisture management a liner sock provides. For now, I'm back in the comfort zone. I've been carrying moleskin and tape in my emergency kit for years and never used them. DUH! I learned much in this thread.....
_________________________
Charlie

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#183163 - 02/23/14 11:59 PM Re: Heel problems [Re: bluefish]
jimmyb Offline
member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 276
awesome

jimmyb

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