Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#182479 - 02/04/14 01:42 AM emergency fire lighting
smdospo Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/04/14
Posts: 1
Good evening,
Was curious if anyone is familiar with how/what to look for to create the best and most easily ignitable tinder in the Midwest. I know birch bark, but other than those trees, im not sure what to be looking for. Any recommendations?

Top
#182480 - 02/04/14 04:47 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: smdospo]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
I like to use the tiny twigs on pine trees that are the thickness of a toothpick or smaller. Take only dead twigs that break off easily. Do not use similar twigs that are laying on the ground as they will likely be too moist.

If you are unsure of your fire starting abilities, bring a few cotton balls or wads of toilet paper soaked in olive oil. If you used a different type of oil, test it before going on the trip.

If possible, I use gray dead wood with no bark on it to get the fire going.

Here is a fire I started using these.

_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

Top
#182481 - 02/04/14 10:15 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: Gershon]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
If a stick snaps when you break it it's dry. Just remember your building up a fire, start with all your ingredients ready and lined up from tender to large sticks. Start small feed the fire slowly so you don't smother the oxygen. Dry grass/tiny sticks/finger sized sticks/ 1" sticks. Practice this at home as much as you can. Make sure you can start a fire with a ferro rod. Learn how to take an ember and blow it into flame. These skills can save your life and once learned, arn't easily forgotten.
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

Top
#182482 - 02/04/14 10:37 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: rockchucker22]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Ferro rod? mine sits in a box. I take bic lighters (2 mini) and a waterproof container full of matches.

The best tinder I've found, tho it probably isn't found everywhere, is old man's beard - a dry green lichen that you find in tufts on the bark of cedar trees. The second best is cotton balls with a little vaseline on them. Put little sticks on the tinder, then slightly larger sticks, then larger, then larger - soon you have the fire going strong enough to take a substantial chunk of wood and you'll start to see embers.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#182483 - 02/04/14 10:54 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: lori]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By lori
Ferro rod? mine sits in a box. I take bic lighters (2 mini) and a waterproof container full of matches.

The best tinder I've found, tho it probably isn't found everywhere, is old man's beard - a dry green lichen that you find in tufts on the bark of cedar trees. The second best is cotton balls with a little vaseline on them. Put little sticks on the tinder, then slightly larger sticks, then larger, then larger - soon you have the fire going strong enough to take a substantial chunk of wood and you'll start to see embers.
I carry my ferro rod everywhere! I've used it literally hundreds of times, when it's wet it starts a fire much easier than a lighter. It's not affected by wind, rain, nor does it need fuel. I love love love my ferro rod! And we don't have old mans beard here. But we do have juniper bark that is a wonderful paper like tender that has enough oils to hold a flame.

2 years ago I was hunting and got caught in a major down pour. We couldn't get a lighter to light so I took out my ferro rod and with in mins we where warming up next to a fire under a tree. Saved our butts!

Don't get me wrong I always carry a lighter too but I find the reliability of the rod worth it. I've given many as gifts but find most don't know how to use them properly.
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

Top
#182484 - 02/04/14 10:58 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: rockchucker22]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
At .5 oz this is what I have around my neck always!
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

Top
#182486 - 02/04/14 11:01 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: lori]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Not sure I want to cut my beard to start a fire. Oh, you mean moss on an old tree? I usually find that stuff too moist to burn it seems. I'll have to give it a try in drier times.
Duane

Top
#182488 - 02/04/14 12:58 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: smdospo]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Here, in the Ozarks, we have a ton of red cedar. If you take a knife and scrap the bark you'll find a layer of fibrous/fuzzy material. This makes a perfect tinder.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#182489 - 02/04/14 01:09 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: billstephenson]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
You can expose the dry inner of thin sticks (assuming, of course, that they're just damp on the outside and not wet through) by using your knife to make frizz sticks. The small shavings catch fire quite easily. If left connected to the stick, the flames dry the stick out enough to catch. Even a small knife (I have a Leatherman Micra which has a tiny blade) will do this easily if the blade is kept sharp.

If the wood is really wet, of course, you do need some kind of fire starter as suggested above. The fire starter will dry out the twigs or frizz stick shavings enough so they will catch. In turn, that will dry out the slightly larger sticks, etc.

I must admit, my fire building skills are somewhat rusty since I rarely build one. Never try to show off your "one match fire" skills to grandchildren after ten years of not making a campfire!

With an extra dry summer coming up out here on the west coast, I certainly won't get a chance to build any fires this summer! We've already had wildfires in January!


Edited by OregonMouse (02/04/14 01:10 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#182490 - 02/04/14 01:42 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: smdospo]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
I don't ever look for the "best tender". I look for what ever is dry and thin. Collect as much tender, sticks and wood as you think you need, then double the pile and double it again.

In the midwest I have used dead dry pine needles, dead dried grass. I find that down in swamps or near water there is usually tons of dead dried plants still standing. I like yellow birch better than paper birch for starting small camp fires. The paper birch works better in a fireplace. Whatever you collect make sure it is thin and dry and you have much more than you think you need. If it is raining look under the heavy canopy of trees. I don't have any experience in the rainy nw, but I have never had any problem finding dry stuff in the rainy mw.


Edited by BZH (02/04/14 01:43 PM)

Top
#182500 - 02/05/14 08:40 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: smdospo]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Ferro rod....I use mine for lighting stoves when car camping and that's about it. I'll carry book matches always, maybe a bic or zippo. Matches are their own tinder and skip a step when making a flame. Instead of sparking and hoping you can blow something into flame, matches are already there. Carry 3 books, in different places, wrapped in saran wrap, and you'll have dry matches. The new kitchen matches are worthless these days. Book matches haven't failed me yet.
I'll also carry some 1" squares of bicycle innertube as tinder/starter. Light a corner and they burn for several minutes, hot! Weigh a little more than a postage stamp. You can also make your own bungees from bike innertube and cut off little bits for fires. Dual purpose.

I like to devote an hour for building fires from scratch. The work keeps you warm and busy. Gather three times as much tinder/kindling/fuel as you think you need. Most fire building fails because folks get in a rush.

For tender in your area, don't get hung up on specifics. Any heart wood, dry/crunchy briar tangles, sub-bark fuzz you scraped with your knife, frizz sticks, all work. It just needs to be hair fine. I use cedar bark around here, or dead briar...its everywhere. Start with a birds nest the size of a soft ball (or bigger!) to give you some time to feed it.


Edited by Dryer (02/05/14 08:49 AM)
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

Top
#182548 - 02/06/14 09:44 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: Dryer]
Dave H Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 57
Loc: Charlotte, NC
A neat trick I saw somewhere can't remember where is bring a manual pencil sharpener. Just a small hole with a blade. You stick small sticks about the size of a pencil in it and twist away. Before you know it you have a pile of fine wood shavings perfect for fire starting.

Top
#182551 - 02/06/14 11:09 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: Dave H]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By Dave H
A neat trick I saw somewhere can't remember where is bring a manual pencil sharpener. Just a small hole with a blade. You stick small sticks about the size of a pencil in it and twist away. Before you know it you have a pile of fine wood shavings perfect for fire starting.


That's a cool idea, never heard of it before either. Thanks for sharing!!
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#182558 - 02/06/14 02:26 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: billstephenson]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
I always have a small sharp, sturdy knife. Shavings are quickly made. My favorite for fire starting and I've sought them out many times in winter, are eastern hemlock . The understory of the second growth areas always has layers of dead up off the ground and the branchlets with needles burn and start very readily. I think they are limited to the upper mid-west, however. I have brought a few pieces of pitch pine, otherwise known as fatwood, with me. A couple of pieces the size of a pencil will get most fires going in rapid fashion.
_________________________
Charlie

Top
#182566 - 02/07/14 12:24 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: bluefish]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
And then there are those of us who live in California, who may never be allowed to make another fire as long as we live.

The second rainstorm of the winter is now here...and it is not really living up to expectations....
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

Top
#182567 - 02/07/14 12:54 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: balzaccom]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By balzaccom
And then there are those of us who live in California, who may never be allowed to make another fire as long as we live.

The second rainstorm of the winter is now here...and it is not really living up to expectations....
Here on the east side we got zero precipitation!
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

Top
#182568 - 02/07/14 01:15 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: rockchucker22]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
We've kind of forgotten what these are like, but an "atmospheric river" storm system is on tap for the weekend. Supposedly it will get warm enough to rain in the mountains, and the valley is due for at least a couple inches. Will be interesting to see how much just soaks in.

Baby steps.
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#182571 - 02/07/14 03:24 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: Rick_D]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 751
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Every drop helps at this point .
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

Top
#182572 - 02/07/14 04:00 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: rockchucker22]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
I'm glad to see something coming your way!!!!! I had fires regularly in the Sierra in the late 70's/80's . In the past 15 years as I travel back for trips I've had maybe a couple. This year will break our streak of returning, as it's just too iffy for good fishing and possible closures. In Sept. we changed a trip because of a fire. Doing a Grand Canyon hike instead. No fires there either. Stove, yes.
_________________________
Charlie

Top
#182574 - 02/07/14 05:24 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: rockchucker22]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Yup!

In a typical February with normal rainfall and a big snowpack, I'd be looking at this weather forecast and saying "uh-oh" while double-checking that our flood insurance payment was made. Not this year, it would take several of these in a row to make things interesting.

California Weather Blog
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#182576 - 02/07/14 08:32 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: Rick_D]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
During the 70's or early 80's there was a nasty drought in California. They had restrictions on watering lawns and implemented low flow shower heads and penalties for using too much water.

About two years in people started asking why the lawns in Beverly Hills were still so green and there was a little dust up over that but soon after it started raining and not much else was said.

It rain and rained and snowed in the mountains for long time, but the use restrictions and penalties were still in effect. The water department kept saying "The ground water tables are low" and for a long time we believed them, but it kept on raining. Finally the LA Times or one of the TV stations sort of forced the officials at the water department to go show them the ground water levels and, of course, they were all full to the brim and spilling over.

Since history has a way of repeating itself, I though it'd be worthwhile to mention this now wink
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#182577 - 02/07/14 10:58 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: Rick_D]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Barely sprinkling where I am on the coast, but more rain out in the Valley and east of here, with some snow in the mountains.

Now, back the OP's question - one firestarter that has been mentioned here before is a cotton ball soaked in Vaseline or other generic fine petroleum jelly. Also, you can make them from cotton balls and wax melted together in an egg carton pocket. For making sparks, I bought a UST Sparkie from REI, works great. One item I highly recommend are REI's waterproof matches. The Coughlan matches don't compare. The REI matches are essentially mini sparklers. Once you light one, they burn until all the flammable material is burned, even if wet. I've used them in winter and they burn even on snow.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#182579 - 02/08/14 10:22 AM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: TomD]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
Most discussions about emergency firestarting discuss the tinder or the spark. IMO, the most important part of any firestarting, but especially important in the emergency is the preparation of the wood beyond the initial spark or the tinder which will ignite the main fuel.

I love birch bark, I am fortunate to have it every where. It works great and one doesn't need a lot. Same with the cotton ball w/vaseline, or the paraffin soaked newspaper firebugs we made back in the day. Another favorite is the tiny small dead twigs from hemlock, spruce, and other evergreens. All of them are great and instantly ignite super dry fuel wood.

Most people fail at fires when the fuel isn't dry and they don't know how to deal with it. I have seen people try to light this type of fuel with a bunch of vaseline cotton balls, some extra purell squirted on the "log", etc... All the "emergency firestarting methods". Their problem wasn't the tinder or the spark, but prepping the fuel. While i watch them try and fail, and someone else takes over trying the same thing with the same results, I am prepping the wood to ignite from my small square of birch bark. When the others finally give up, or they have used up all their cotton balls and TP, I light the fire with a single match. Not because I am special, or have super powers, but because I spent the time to prepare the wood which is used to light the main fuel.

IMO, the most important (and most neglected) part of firestarting is the wood and technique in between the "ignition" and the main fuel.
_________________________
http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com

Top
#182587 - 02/08/14 02:42 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: DTape]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
MO, the most important part of any firestarting, but especially important in the emergency is the preparation of the wood beyond the initial spark or the tinder which will ignite the main fuel.


That's been my experience too. There is a science to getting a fire going but it's not rocket science. I've sat and watched people put out good fires by piling on big pieces of wood, which can be pretty amusing.

I got a good supply from a friend so always bring some fat wood when I go backpacking. A very small amount will light off a lot of fires if you prepare your wood right. It really only takes a toothpick sized piece of it.

A few of the tricks I've picked up over the years are laying down a thick floor of wood and then building my fire on top of that. I try to use branches at least 3 inches thick laid close together and make it a couple layers thick.

Airspace is everything when you're starting a fire. On top of that "floor" I make sure there is a lot of airspace. I lay branches in a crosshatch pattern starting with sticks about 2 inches thick and and work my way up to tiny twigs on the top. I stick my tinder just inside those twigs, light it, and sit back. This "Top Down" approach takes a little longer to set up, and a little longer to burn up into a real fire, but it lights off with no fussing and it will burn a long time with no fussing and there will be a nice hot bed of coals by the time you have to add fuel. I've played with a lot of methods and this is my favorite because I can sit and relax as soon as I've lit my tinder.

Reflecting heat where you want it is easy. If it's just me and one or two others I'll lay a hunk of a fallen tree trunk or stack some big rocks behind the fire so the heat is reflected towards us.

Drying wood before you toss it on the fire. When my stick sources are all wet I stack them around my fire so they start drying out before I try to burn them. This helps keep the smoke down too.

Burning sticks. Most people tend to want to burn logs, but logs don't burn very well, especially logs that are wet. Sticks are easier to find, easier to carry, and easier to burn, and they don't smoke as much or pop and shoot big embers way off into the forest. They also burn more completely.

Small fires. When I'm solo I build a pretty small fire and I can get by a long time in pretty cold temps with a few bundles of sticks. Small fires are easier to maintain and easier to put out and scatter and LNT.

Gathering sticks. I carry a piece of nylon cord about 6 ft long with a loop tied in one end and lay it out flat on the ground. Then I go gather armfuls of sticks and start laying them on top of the cord. When I have a nice pile I grab the ends of the cord and put the straight end through the loop and pull it back tight and cinch it with a half hitch. I can carry a huge bundle of sticks back to camp this way. Three of those bundles will last me until the next morning with fuel to spare.

_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#182594 - 02/08/14 06:00 PM Re: emergency fire lighting [Re: billstephenson]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
I often use the top down fire as well. Burns a long time. Agree with your other tricks too.
_________________________
http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com

Top

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Featured Photos
Spiderco Chaparral Pocketknife
David & Goliath
Also Testing
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 180 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Noodles, McCrary, DanyBacky, Rashy Willia, WanderBison
13240 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
Backpacking.net
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 

Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum