Anybody have any tips for keeping stuff dry inside a pack that might not be completely water proof? would you put it in a garbage back or something like that, and are there pack covers that would go over the whole pack while you have it on?

Pack covers do a poor job of keeping pack contents dry in genuinely wet conditions. Water runs down your back and soaks into the pack from behind.

If you really want items to stay dry, you need to put them inside a sturdy plastic bag, such as a turkey basting bag, a trash compactor bag or a 6 mil contractor's bag, or else use a designed "dry bag" with a roll-top closure. Plastic bags should be twisted at the neck, then the twist folded over and secured around the twisted-and-folded neck. You need to test your dry bags ahead of time to make sure they still don't leak.

Obviously, you also need to segregate wet items, like a tent or tarp or rain clothes, or anything wet really, away from the dry items. If you don't want the weight of multiple dry bags or plastic bags, then use one large one as a pack liner, with all dry items inside it and all wet items not in it.

There are two approaches:

1. Waterproof stuff sacks (dry bags) for stuff that absolutely must stay dry, and a pack cover for the pack (I've never had a problem with just a pack cover, and regular stuff sacks, but I don't hike in prolonged rain for many days.

2. Pack liners: essentially a single large dry bag that is roughly the same size as the inside of your pack. Everything goes inside, you seal the top, and let the pack itself get wet. Use zip lock bags to protect the stuff in the outside pockets.

That's a nutshell summary; I'll let others chime in with details and variations.

I just use stuff sack that are either water resistant or waterproof when sealed properly.

Big ol' trash compactor bag as a pack liner.

There are a few waterproof packs, but not many, and you know when you have them. Your wallet will be screaming.

Pack covers are to protect the pack from brush on a bushwhack, IMO. No good for keeping the wet out of the harness. The padding on a typical backpack gets soaked. The way to keep the pack and your back dry - a poncho that covers both.

Do note that a lot of experienced hikers can remember at least one incident of slipping during a dicey stream ford. It happened to me! A pack cover (or a poncho or "Packa") will not protect anything in case of immersion. It's really important to have your pack contents, or at least your critical insulation, in waterproof (not water resistant) containers such as dry bags (I test mine annually) or a waterproof pack liner. As already mentioned, don't put wet stuff in with the dry! I carry my tent in an outside pocket so everything else stays dry while I set it up (or take it down).

A lot of trash compactor bags these days are scented. Supermarket brands are especially prone to this. You'll want to avoid those. Also, check the bag each morning for holes before you pack up (that's one of the reasons you take a bit of duct tape along).

A waterproof packs would be great for that matter.

They make waterproof packs. Like so many other "waterproof" things, they lose that ability, making them really expensive non-waterproof packs.

Pack liners are the best thing.

I haven't followed this thread closely, so this may already have been mentioned with regard to pack liners:

They are quite possibly the best solution to keeping things inside the pack dry, but they really do nothing to keep the outside of the pack dry. That's not a big deal, in and of itself, since a wet pack holds stuff just as well as a dry pack.

But a wet pack can create a minor inconvenience in camp. At least in my neck of the woods, a lot of folks store their packs inside their tents to keep the raccoons, mice, etc., at bay. (Well, mostly at bay; occasionally, someone will end up with a hole chewed in a pack AND a tent...) If the pack is wet, however, it becomes a huge condensation generator inside the tent. It's easily avoided by storing the pack outside (not just in the vestibule, which is only separated from the rest of the tent by some mesh, but actually outside), and now it either continues to get wet, or has to be hung in a tree to avoid critters.

It's a bigger deal if, like some do (and I used to do), you save weight by using a short sleeping pad and storing your empty pack under your lower legs. Now it's more important to keep it as dry as possible; of course, you can't keep it completely dry. (This is one of the reasons I stopped using a pack as a pad extender.)

Pack liners are good, though I'm not sure I'd call them "the best" - maybe "least bad" is more accurate. I know they're the worst solution I've found, except for all the others I've tried. (I feel the same way about GoreTex.) The only really good solution to keeping a pack dry in prolonged rain is staying home, and that's not always an acceptable solution.

I do carry a lightweight (1 oz.) pack cover to keep the outside of my pack dry. It's my pillow at night, and I sure don't want a soggy pack exterior next to my sleeping bag! The pack cover, though, is worthless if you fall in the creek!

I use dry bags for my insulation items (one for the sleeping bag and the other for my insulating clothing). The two combined weigh about the same as a pack liner. I gave up on the trash compactor bag pack liner after getting throughly frustrated having small things shoved down in my pack pop right back out at me thanks to the slippery plastic. I swear that eliminating the pack liner saved me at least 5 minutes packing up each morning!

YMMV, of course!

OM, I've never used a trash compactor bag, but I've always thought it was a good idea because they're so thick and puncture resistant. But when you mentioned slippery I had to rethink that because they are indeed very slick and I can easily envision the trouble you've had with them because of that. I've mostly used heavy duty lawn bags for my pack liners.

As for pack covers, I'm pretty sure they work good on trail, but I've never had one last 1/4 mile of bushwhacking. I gave up on them. I haven't hiked with a backpack in a downpour in years, so I haven't had to deal with the consequences of that enough to worry about it. I'd rig a tarp or tent and set them out if one came up on me. So far I've been lucky to not get caught in one.

Wet crossings are always a worry though. I never know when I'm going to get a hankering to cross a stream. I always know when I won't, but that's a different issue.

So far I've been lucky and have never dunked a pack doing that. I know it will, it's just a matter of time. I'll just deal with it when it happens. I think I'm pretty well prepared. We'll see

I'll take a wet pack over a wet sleeping bag and clothing any day....

I combine the pack liner with a poncho or an umbrella most of the time. Best of both worlds until you fall in the creek.

I've only done that once (most of the creeks aren't really that big where I hike - like the overall size of the backcountry, things are significantly smaller in my piece of the east.)

The one time I did was, of course, in front of about a dozen folks in a beginner's trip I was helping with. The creek was about mid-calf when we crossed the day before, to camp in that near-ideal campsite on the other side. Naturally, it rained and the creek rose to knee-deep or slightly above. So, I waded about halfway across, to provide reassurance to the other folks as they crossed. (It wasn't flowing any faster than the day before, and wasn't treacherous, but they were beginners...) Anyhow, after they all crossed, I waded on over - and stepped squarely into a hole, went in over my head, and popped back up. Nothing in my pack got wet - which completely surprised me.

There really is no good way to guarantee a dry pack - just some ways that are less bad than others. "Dry most of the time; not fatally wet ever" is about the best we can hope for.

This question is good timing for me. Im trying to find the right balance on this one.

I used to carry only a pack but I started using the trash compactor bags after hearing about them here. Inexpensive, effective and pick 'em up at the grocery store, made perfect sense to me.

I have to chuckle at myself, I find it easier to slide items in to the bottom or along the sides of the inside of the pack because it is slippery. Just goes to show how individual gear can be to different folks.

As for the pack cover Im trying to work out if I still want to carry the extra piece and partially protect the pack from getting wet on the outside. The extra water weight absorbed and soaking wet harness don't sound like fun. I like the idea of the "packa" but not sure I like the packa. I have read some reviews that were not very complimentary about leaking. They may have improved it since. I wouldn't mind carrying some kind of a poncho style rain gear as we don't do a lot of bushwacking and it seems the easiest way to keep me and my gear dryer on the outside. One drawback is I use my rain top for a wind breaker now and I don't want to carry both.

jimmyb

A friend of mine fell over backwards in a creek, and lay there teetering like a stuck turtle on his Osprey in the baseball-sized round boulders... in two inches of water.

I felt so bad for laughing. At least, until I noticed he was laughing too.

Nothing got wet, even though he didn't have a pack liner. Well, the jacket in the kangaroo pocket, and the stuff in the side pockets.

I have to say, the worst I've ever had in terms of creeks soaking packs was when high water rose above my hips and wet the bottom of it. I wasn't worried about that much either.

I was crossing Ingall's Creek in Washington on the way to climb Mt. Stuart. The creek was high from snow melt. I was carrying a Bergans rucksack (this was in the early 60's) with no provisions for waterproofing. I got washed off my feet and dumped the pack then managed to get my footing and get across the creek. One of my companions chased the pack down after about five minutes of downstream travel and fished it out. I was amazed to find that, other than wetting around the top flap, the pack contents were dry. It took me the rest of the day to dry out; we wore more cotton in those days.

My formative hiking years were in Washington, so prolonged rain was an expected "feature." It was technically possible to waterproof our external frame packs by sealing the seams, as they were relatively simple construction and had big flaps covering the single top opening. Combined with waterproof stuffsacks and sometimes, a poncho, our stuff actually kept dry. Pack evolution and the addition of features (like fancypants zippers) and then, internal frames made waterproofing them a hopeless challenge.

At present I know of truly waterproof packs with bonded, not sewn seams from ArcTeryx and Ortlieb. Almost nobody else bothers because it's so technically challenging, and requires "decontenting" most of the gizmos and features we've come to expect. They're necessarily big, mostly pocketless, single-compartment rucksacks.

Liner, cover, poncho? Yes. Which, depends on the conditions and the pack's design. I don't much like ponchos but for keeping water completely away from the pack itself, nothing is better. A cover plus a liner (compactor) plus a large-brimmed hat is a decent alternative. I've completely switched over to tape-seam rolltop dry bags for my bag and clothing, the last line of defense. Even if you use a liner, you still need to protect all the stuff in pockets. My packs have as many as six or seven.

Cheers,

I believe that the cuben fiber packs from ZPacks and a couple other "cottage" manufacturers are fully waterproof, since the fabric is waterproof and the seams are taped. However, if the pack is immersed (i.e. you fall in the creek), the water will still get in the pack through the opening unless the pack has an effective dry bag closure. Plus the outside of the pack will still be wet. Besides, cuben is mighty pricey!

Been a long time since I fell in, thank goodness, but I've certainly done it. It creates an awful mess, especially if it's cold (did it on a canoe trip once while wearing every stitch I owned, and it essentially ended the trip).

As far as the original question, I carry a poncho and occasionally use it on the trail, specifically to keep the harness and exterior elements at least somewhat dry. The poncho is also my shelter, so it's in the pack anyway, and a really wet pack gets heavy. For the contents, I use a common kitchen garbage bag as a liner. It's cheap, handy and plenty big for my little pack, though I've never dunked using it. I think I like using it because I like to pack my sleeping bag loose.

Since I use my rolled Neo-air as a frame for my pack, I've never confronted the slickness issue.

best, jcp

First, i have experimented with ponchos and i didn't care for them, perhaps because we are often in the open up high and they do not work well in wind, even with a waist strap. Also, they do not have arms. I hike in the Pacific Northwest and it can rain here from time to time. Secondly, i think a pack cover does help enough to be worth it's weight IF you expect rain. It can be used for other purposes too like covering your pack and other stuff temporarily in camp. Thirdly, I put my extra clothing in a good smaller plastic bag, but not my first aid kit and food, which are in zip locks anyway. And I roll up my rain gear and put rubbers around them so I don't feel I need to pack them in a plastic bag....I'll probably be wearing them after it starts raining. I love an umbrella and take one often. Mostly because it allows you some cover to organize the pack, eat or change clothing. I have hiked without my rain jacket for miles under an umbrella attached to my shoulder strap with a carabinier. Conditions my very, your individual results may very.