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#173868 - 01/15/13 07:19 AM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Jimshaw]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Jim,

Let's assume worst case where you don't have a map. Let's also assume you don't have a clue which direction your vehicle is in.

You are going to have to set up a search grid from a central point you can find again. Look at the terrain and rule out obvious directions.

Then decide on how far your truck could be from that location.

If you are good with a compass, you can do squares around the central point. If you aren't so good, you will probably have to do radials from the central point.

A GPS won't save you in this situation. Last week, I marked a waypoint right at the car when I left it. When I came back, the GPS showed me 600 yards from the car.

Someone who only takes their compass out a couple times a year is not an "expert." They may be good enough to be safe, but they are not an "expert."

Someone who is good with a compass ought to be able to navigate compass only with an error of 150 feet/mile. An expert should be able to navigate with an error of 50 feet/mile.

_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#173870 - 01/15/13 07:47 AM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Gershon]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I worked in forestry for about 40 years in the pre-GPS days. Part of that work was in the Puget Sound lowlands of Washington in dense stands of second-growth Douglas-fir, hemlock and cedar. No landmarks and often foggy and/or rainy. We often needed to locate section corners or other property boundaries. For critical work we would use a staff compass and a two-chain trailer tape to measure our way. But, usually we could get close enough (100-200 feet) using dead reckoning with compass and pacing. The GPS I now have isn't too much better than that: it is faster and easier though.
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May I walk in beauty.

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#173884 - 01/15/13 02:50 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Pika]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
I give up. What is a staff compass? What is "2 chain trailer tape?"

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http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#173885 - 01/15/13 03:22 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Gershon]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
A stick to hold the compass still....like what you'd put a Brunton Pocket Transit on. Or a camera. Tape/chains go off the pointy bottom. Big chunk of the world was surveyed this way before optics/lasers.



http://www.benmeadows.com/warren-knight-foresters-staff-compass_36812766/
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paul, texas KD5IVP

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#173887 - 01/15/13 05:29 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Dryer]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
I just pictured Indiana Jones in the map room with the pendant on the top of that staff. Gave me a smile remembering that film. /thread drift
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#173888 - 01/15/13 05:42 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Dryer]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Dyer has it right. A staff compass is a precision compass of the sort that came with a transit. It has a level bubble and a needle about 4" long and sighting leaves. They come with a ball socket on the bottom that fits an ash wood (Jacob's) staff that is pushed into the ground. Carefully used, a staff compass and the "Jake stake" will give bearings to 30 minutes. A two chain trailer tape is a metal tape that is 132' (two chains) long with a trailer marked in topo units (a topo unit signifies one foot of rise per 66' chain). In use, one would run the tape out to a 2 chain distance and then measure the slope using an Abney Level scaled in topographic units. The forester would then advance the tape to the appropriate topo mark on the tape trailer. All of this was done to correct the distance on the slope to horizontal measure. All mapping and surveying is based on horizontal distances. Yeah, I know this is a bit arcane but most of the western US was surveyed this way and in forestry the old surveys rule.
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May I walk in beauty.

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#173889 - 01/15/13 06:01 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Pika]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Thanks for the history lesson.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#174101 - 01/19/13 10:12 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Gershon]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Gershon,
I have to disagree.
twice now I have set a way point and headed into the mountains, once back packing and once fishing down a mountains stream and returning cross country. In both cases I simply followed the gps home and in both cases my truck was not visible until I was within 50 yards of it.

If your GPS was 600 feet off, then something was wrong, like your original fix only grabbed a couple of satelites or you didn't give it time enough before setting out. Even in the old days of the purposeful error in the GPS, being 600 feet off returning to a waypoint was really bad.

Maybe you need to practice with that gps like you practice with a compass. grin I can be completely totally lost in a white out snow storm and if I can get a gps signal [debateable I admit}, I can go directly to my truck. I have done this on several occasions. As in I used to go up to the Sierras for the winter storms and I relied upon my gps to find my truck and it never failed me, unless the batteries died, and if you take a waypoint at your TH and turn it off, you can still use it to point to the TH even if you don't know where the path goes, or you can leave it mostlt turned on and easily backtrack. This is the best, just carry spare batteries.

Jim grin

ps in deep backcountry there are not many trails and few easily identified peaks. a map is of very little use if you don't know where you are on it and quartering 20 miles isn't reasonable.


Edited by Jimshaw (01/19/13 10:14 PM)
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#174103 - 01/19/13 11:16 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Jimshaw]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I started using GPS when working at Channel Islands and even when Selective Availability was applied, they worked quite well, almost always. There were just one or two occasions where something was amiss, ut usually things were right on.

If you ever have to find your white vehicle on a fog shrouded open plain, you want a GPS, provided you set a waypoint that morning.....


Edited by oldranger (01/19/13 11:17 PM)

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#174124 - 01/21/13 06:09 AM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Jimshaw]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Jim,

You are right when you say I should practice with the GPS more. The error was likely created when I set the waypoint.

My interest in the compass is not so much for navigation as it is for mapping. This is a completely different activity than backpacking. If I spend the whole day moving 2 or 3 miles, that's great.

Unfortunately, nobody else seems to like hiking this way, so it's a solo activity.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#174593 - 02/02/13 08:32 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: finallyME]
djtrekker Offline
member

Registered: 02/02/13
Posts: 43
Loc: Virginia
new here, so hopefully I replied correctly.
Suunto MC-2G Navigator is what I use. It's probably overkill, but I like the baseplate, declination adjustment, sighting mirror. The mirror gets a lot of use for hygiene.

If I'm traveling in unknown country or didn't do a very good map study before departing (shame...) my primary navigation is GPS. I always carry my GPS anyway. I still keep my compass skills current.

Agree with Jim above; my GPS gets me spot-on. I have often hit the trail Friday night, sometimes snowshoed when trail wasn't too distinct (2-3 miles most, after work, just to get in the woods)and GPS was always easy to follow. Sometimes trails that are on a map don't exist on the ground, although I could use a compass (starting with verification of my current map location via GPS!), but usually default to GPS to plot a bushwhack to get me to my objective destination.


Edited by djtrekker (02/02/13 08:42 PM)

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#178711 - 07/28/13 01:35 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: jbylake]
D Lee Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 10
I enjoyed reading the comments on this post, especially those by Pika. We seem to share a similar background.

I use a compass and avoid using a GPS, just because. When I worked in the woods I used a Silva Ranger and later a professional sighting compass, not suitable for recreational use. In recent years I have been using an Eschenbach. They are very light, durable and precise enough for recreational use.

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#178884 - 08/03/13 01:10 PM Re: What Compass do you use? [Re: Jimshaw]
rockettman Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 14
Loc: Maine
When traveling in Newfoundland, there are few if any trails. We pride ourselves in our map and compass skills and rarely pull out the GPS. But were sure glad to have it when in white out or fog. Sometimes you just need to confirm your location. BTW I use my 40 year old boy scout map compass.

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