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#177352 - 05/27/13 01:44 AM PSKs
BP4Fun Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 1
I am very new to backpacking. I am currently researching and collecting gear (starting from nothing) and hope to have my first overnight trip in a couple of months.

There is a lot of information on the internet (especially youtube) about Personal Safety Kits (PSKs). These are often in the form of an altoid can.

Do backpackers really carry these small kits separately from the gear in their packs or do they just make sure they have backups for the essentials (light, fire starters, etc) with their other gear?

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#177353 - 05/27/13 08:04 AM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
Pika Online   content
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
No, I don't carry a dedicated safety kit, I have everything I need in my pack which is seldom more than a few feet away. I do carry a knife, pinch-light, Bic Mini and a whistle on a lanyard around my neck for "just in case" though, but these are items I use ( except the whistle) during the day.
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#177358 - 05/27/13 11:35 AM Re: PSKs [Re: Pika]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
No, I just carry some of it in my normal gear; I rarely get very far from my pack (doing so makes me a bit nervous.)

This sounds like a doomsday-prepper kind of invention. I've always been somewhat skeptical of that: "surviving the end of the world" seems like a contradiction in terms.

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#177360 - 05/27/13 11:52 AM Re: PSKs [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
When I was an Air Force pilot, many of us carried personal survival kits in our flight suit made from a plastic soap holder with duct tape around it. I don't recall what I put in mine.

My first aid kit is a pair of scissors. I figure I can make any sort of bandage I need from some article of clothing. I can make it germ free by boiling it, if needed. I don't bring a knife, so I never have to treat knife wounds.

If I were the type to get blisters, I would learn about treating them and keep the right things with me.


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http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#177362 - 05/27/13 12:11 PM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
For dayhikes, yes, but for overnights I have the equivalent items distributed among my standard gear bags. I have a few items in my pockets in case I get separated from my pack for some reason, but not the equivalent of a complete kit.

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#177364 - 05/27/13 01:34 PM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
The few items I carry in my pockets while backpacking are there for convenient access, not for my safety in case of emergency. As several others have said already, I do not stray far from my pack when I am hiking. As a rule it is within a few paces of where I am.

If I take any sort of hike away from my campsite I habitually bring any extra clothes, gear, food or water I think I might need. Because I hike solo, I never wander heedlessly, but always take care to know where I am and how to get back to safety at all times. This is mandatory and must never be ignored. It is far more important than any Altoids tin with a few bits of stuff in it.

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#177367 - 05/27/13 02:24 PM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
Average_Joe Offline
member

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 23
Hi BP4Fun,
I'm that guy still wearing a fanny, or butt pack. I know, I know, NEVER wear a fanny pack.

But, I do. It has water, a boo-boo kit (very small amount of first aid goodies), knife, flashlight, a litre of water, a whistle/compass/match holder combo thingy, two bags of homemade trail mix (approx 400 calories each), a flare, my patented redneck fire starter kit, a space blanket and a 55 gallon trash bag my meds and some sugary peppermint candy. Oh, and of course my trusty anti-zombie/crackhead device.

Even so, I never hike more than a couple of miles from camp.

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#177373 - 05/27/13 04:15 PM Re: PSKs [Re: Average_Joe]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Everything I need for comfort and safety is already in my pack; I have no need for a "survival kit." IMHO, the ones promoting those are trying to make money off inexperienced folks who don't know better.

If your pack contains the "Ten" Essentials, and you don't wander off and leave the pack behind, there's no reason to take anything else. I treat my pack as though it were my purse (it does contain ID, a credit card and a small amount of cash), and always keep it close at hand. If I dayhike during a backpack, the Essentials go with me.


Edited by OregonMouse (05/27/13 04:34 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#177384 - 05/27/13 09:31 PM Re: PSKs [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Average_Joe Offline
member

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 23
You hit the nail on the head Glenn.

A backpack and its contents are defined quite differently depending upon with whom you are speaking.

As an aside, I dislike how the media paints the person who does prepare for natural and other types of disasters. Most are nothing like the yahoos on the TV shows. Indeed, a half dozen or so neighbors were glad they had a prepper in the hood years ago when a snowstorm pretty much locked the neighborhood down. Who was crazy? The 30 year old single guy with 90 days food and water, or the fools who did not have two days worth of food in the house?

Back on topic...


I grew up on the Gulf Coast of Florida, so there were preps in the house year round, a bugout footlocker in the big family car during hurricane season, as well as what has come to be called a bugout/get home/emergency bag in my dad's and the kids' cars. Nothing fancy, just water, canned soup, matches and a couple of candles. Also a change of clothes and a rain coat. Those were maybe 15 lbs or so. There were several summers in my youth where we went without power for weeks at a time.

Then I joined the military and had 3 huge bags in the trunk of my car during a good period of my career. These belonged to the military and I was allowed to have a small bag of personal items.

Having a 60 mile commute to work, I carry enough stuff to live a day or so in my car (and I have sat in 8 hour traffic jams out here). I guess you could call this my get home bag.

I don't have an INCH bag (I'm Not Coming Home), so I guess as a prepper I am just a poser.

This forum seems like the recreational backpacker whose interest is other than surviving the zombie apocalypse. Nothing wrong with being one way or the other, just need to understand the goals.




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#177398 - 05/28/13 10:43 AM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
Ike Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 9
I think it's interesting that this thread basically took a turn to the zombie apocolypse lol

I carry one first aid kit no matter what I'm doing. It's probably a bit larger than some because I assume that people I hike with don't have their own and I know I would offer mine and leave myself with nothing left.

I keep the obvious things like band aids, antiseptic creams, gauze, but I also keep things that I know personally work like Rawleigh Salve, Sting Stop for bees/insect bites, and pain relievers. I don't keep anything to pack knife or gunshot wounds or anything like that. That would be more for the end of the world packs, which I don't own.

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#177401 - 05/28/13 11:22 AM Re: PSKs [Re: Average_Joe]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
The "preppers" I was alluding to were the TV types, who are building the elaborate bunkers and stockpiling weapons and ammo in addition to food and other supplies, with the idea that civilization will totally implode and they'll be fighting off their neighbors - in other words, the wack jobs.

Preparation for reasonable expectations, as you describe, makes a lot of sense. Live in a hurricane area? Good idea to keep some food, etc. in the car - and maybe some 5-gallon gas cans in the garage. Live in a tornado area? Having a stocked storm shelter buried in the yard makes sense.

I'm lucky, I live in a heavily populated area where severe weather isn't very likely. As a result, we put some water and snacks and blankets in the car for winter (unexpected snow strandings), and we routinely keep about a week's worth of food in the house (and some extra fuel for my backpacking stoves!) - the longest power outage we've ever had was 4 days. I also bought my wife a WM Mitylite sleeping bag (which also gets used when all the kids and grandkids come home, as spare bedding.) First aid kits in each car, along with some basic tools (screwdriver and mini-socket sets) pretty well fill our needs.

And, to be honest, I've thought about taking out a couple of the neighbors from time to time - but that had nothing to do with Doomsday. smile

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#177405 - 05/28/13 11:56 AM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
I carry just a small FAK in my pack. To help in your gear collecting, you may find my paper useful, which includes a small section on FA & repair kits.

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#177406 - 05/28/13 12:03 PM Re: PSKs [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Ike Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 9
Originally Posted By Glenn Roberts

And, to be honest, I've thought about taking out a couple of the neighbors from time to time - but that had nothing to do with Doomsday. smile


Haha! I know the feeling.

I enjoy watching the preppers shows because sometimes they have great ideas for improvising or making your own gear. When it comes to the end of the world or a natural disaster, it can't hurt to be at least somewhat prepared. Most of the people on those shows have let it consume their lives though and most of them haven't convinced their spouses of the necessity, which can never be a good thing. Growing up in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania, snow storms would regularly knock out power for a few days a few times each winter. We learned early on how to cook over a wood stove, keep yourself warm, and how to get around in the deep snow. My entire family has been born and bred with great survival instincts and aren't phased by the thought of having to survive on nothing if forced to.

As soon as winter hit, I was always taught to keep an extra coat, boots, gloves, hat, and blanket in the trunk in case you get caught in a storm and stranded. Living in Tennessee, it was the same way with tornadoes. You prepare yourself and have the necessary arrangements made so that when it comes around, you're ready and you just move into position and have no worries.

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#177410 - 05/28/13 01:36 PM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By BP4Fun
I am very new to backpacking. I am currently researching and collecting gear (starting from nothing) and hope to have my first overnight trip in a couple of months.

There is a lot of information on the internet (especially youtube) about Personal Safety Kits (PSKs). These are often in the form of an altoid can.

Do backpackers really carry these small kits separately from the gear in their packs or do they just make sure they have backups for the essentials (light, fire starters, etc) with their other gear?


This depends. There are different types of backpackers. Some like to walk into a nice lake or other location and then camp there for a few days while they explore the area. this is sometimes referred to as basecamping. These people generally carry a lot of stuff for more comfort. They also need a separate day pack for their exploring. A PSK is a good idea in this case.
Another type of backpacker is one who likes to cover the miles. They generally have a light pack and never leave it. Their entire pack can be classified as a PSK, so no need for another one.
There are of course, many different types of backpackers, and my two examples do not cover them all. But, it does highlight two examples of people who might, or might not, need one.
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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#177415 - 05/28/13 02:24 PM Re: PSKs [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Our entertainment options are flood and earthquake. At least with the first there will be some advance warning. The second, less warning than with a tornado (and the alert system isn't even in place yet). Luckily the big faults are a decent distance away so we're more likely to roll than shake. If there's an 8+ all bets are off. Of course, there won't be anywhere to go either.
_________________________
--Rick

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#177416 - 05/28/13 03:07 PM Re: PSKs [Re: Rick_D]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
Moderator hat: on

I understand that prepping is an interesting subject with some overlap with camping and backpacking skills and gear, but if you all want to get into it further, I suggest starting a new thread in Off-Topic where it is more appropriate and much easier to find during a search.

Moderator hat: off

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#177420 - 05/28/13 04:18 PM Re: PSKs [Re: aimless]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Sorry, aimless - didn't mean to hijack the thread.

To try to get it back on track:

No, I don't carry a dedicated PSK when backpacking, for a couple of reasons:

1. I don't plan my trips such that "survival" becomes a realistic possibility. I hike in the eastern US, and large, truly remote wilderness areas really don't exist. I also look at the weather, and plan for another time if the forecast is calling for 3 days of monsoon or blizzard. So, the worst that's likely to happen is that I get lost - in which case I simply pick a bearing and walk it 4 - 8 miles to a road. Then pick a direction (left or right) and hike to the nearest house.

2. I rarely hike alone any more (age 63), and when I do hike alone it's at one of 3 state parks with less than 30 miles of trail, well-marked, no spot on which is more than 3 miles from a road access point. Also, I rarely hike off-trail, even with a group. (Speaking of groups, companions trump a PSK any day of the week - and you don't have to carry them, at least not on your back. smile )

3. I don't basecamp and dayhike, and I've always been very reluctant to move far from my pack, which has everything I'd use in an emergency anyhow. I can see having a separate kit (10 essentials, not a vendor's idea of a PSK) if you dayhike from a basecamp. An emergency, where I hike, is usually a physical injury (broken arm or leg, getting really sick, etc.) In those cases, the most useful things would be first aid, food, water, and shelter - all of which live in my pack. Thus, I'm never far from it - maybe 20 yards, while filtering water, but usually no more than 10 feet or so.

4. While I don't know what the contents of the PSK you saw were, my guess is that it would contain a lot of stuff (including a firearm?) that simply isn't necessary in my part of the country. We don't face the kind of wildlife that poses those types of threats, and we're typically not that far from inhabited areas, where help would be quickly available. (At the risk of another unintentional thread hijack, I've always found it intriguing and comforting that the further you move from "civilization," the more willing total strangers are to offer help if you need it, or even make kind offers if you don't.)

5. Where I hike (again, eastern US), I'm far better served by leaving a detailed trip plan and a hard deadline with a person I trust (usually my wife.) That gets SAR started soon after the deadline passes, and the small "wilderness" sizes and detailed plan mean that I'll be found reasonably quickly. (There are a couple of other threads that discuss trip plans in great detail.)

So, no, where I hike and what I do, I wouldn't ever consider buying a PSK.

And now, I hope, we're back on topic.

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#177424 - 05/28/13 06:02 PM Re: PSKs [Re: Glenn Roberts]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
BTW, I've found an easy path to assembling a little kit for dayhikes is to start with a commercial 1st aid kit in a pouch--there are several decent brands with many sizes offered--and add a small flashlight/headlamp, lighter, small knife, whistle, water treatment tablets, compass. All these extras fit easily.

Compact, easy to pack and easy to find. In sketchy weather I toss a bivy sack and poncho in the rucksack as well, providing emergency shelter.

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#177452 - 05/29/13 12:01 PM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I've watched a few of those videos and I have to admire how well some of those kits are designed.

I don't carry one of those myself, but I do carry most of what's in them with my FAK. I take this with me almost everywhere in a daypack I carry. And I have to admit that I too will toss a fanny pack into my daypack so I can use it for short & light day hikes if I feel the need (which I often do).

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"You want to go where?"



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#177489 - 05/31/13 08:05 AM Re: PSKs [Re: Rick_D]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
You're right, Bill. I've done that several times over the years. Usually, I'll buy the kit marked "Dayhiker" or "Emergency" first aid kit - the smallest and cheapest - which mostly has bandaids, gauze, and a few pills. I mostly buy it for the nylon pouch (yes, I could use a ziploc bag, but having a bright red or yellow pouch with "First Aid" prominently stamped on it could be useful if I had to tell someone to "go get my first aid kit in my lid pocket.")

I usually throw away the pills, which leaves plenty of room for my other items to it: Aleve, Advil, tweezers, a pair of folding scissors, water purification tablets, some safety pins, and patch kits for my tent and sleeping pad, and a piece of moleskin.

Oddly enough, I haven't used any of those items (except Aleve and Advil) in at least 5 years.

And, for the walk down memory lane, my original first aid kit was a metal or plastic (I forget which) band-aid box with other stuff added to it. Do bandaids even come in such boxes any more?

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#177490 - 05/31/13 10:35 AM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I take a first aid kit that I put together to meet the needs of someone who frequently hikes with newbies who won't carry stuff, and that matches my level of first aid training.

Wilderness first aid training should come first. Then everything in your backpack, and out of it, from trekking poles to pack frame, to tarp/tent fly, to clothing, to sleeping bag, clean water, etc are all a part of the "first aid kit" - and you have the ability to stabilize the person in distress with confidence.

I've never seen anyone carry an altoid can PSK such as you describe.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#177491 - 05/31/13 10:50 AM Re: PSKs [Re: lori]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
You bring up a very good point, Lori: the biggest piece of the "PSK" is training and knowledge (which adds nothing to the pack weight.) If you don't know how to use something in your kit, it's just dead weight.

How much knowledge do you need? It depends on your role on a trip. I'm not wilderness-first-aid qualified. So, although I function often in an assistant-leader role on trips, I make it very clear, up front, to the leader that my role needs to be limited to route-finding, to monitoring the new hikers on the trail (keeping groups in contact as they spread out, hiking sweep, etc.), and to teaching about gear and techniques (how to pitch a tent, or hang a bear bag - that sort of thing.) I also make sure that at least one of the other leaders is properly certified. Usually, at least two are - which means if one of them becomes a victim, we've still got one trained person left. (I used much the same approach at age 10 to determine whether two hand grenades I found in my uncle's WWII footlocker were live or practice.)

When hiking alone, or with perhaps one other companion, I've weighed the lack of formal training into my risk assessment. That's why, in those situations, I never venture off trail, and almost always choose a trip in the "frontcountry," where I'll be passing near roads, or through picnic areas/campgrounds/parking lots every so often, and where I have cell phone coverage most places. Lowering the risk that I'll get hurt or lost allows me to increase the risk of inadequate training, to acheive an overall acceptably low trip risk level. (And yes, to the other two or three accountants on the site, this is modeled after the audit risk approach. smile )

You can accept higher injury risks if you lower the training risk by getting that additional training. Thanks again, Lori, for reminding us that you need to evaluate the risks of what you're doing, and prepare for them in terms of both equipment and knowledge/skill. Too often, we focus only on gear.

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#177492 - 05/31/13 10:55 AM Re: PSKs [Re: Glenn Roberts]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
As for the survival stuff...

if you have a hook and line, you also need the ability to catch fish with it. It takes some knowledge to know what to use for bait. Also you need to sneak up on trout, which are the usual fish where most people hike....

If you have tinder, you need to know how to properly build a fire, particularly if everything else is wet.

If you have a plastic poncho for shelter on a day hike... it takes some work and skill to make that a decent shelter.

Most people who just pick up the 10 essentials (our PSK) aren't necessarily going to take the compass class or learn how to build a fire.... I know that from experience.

This year my backpacking class will be practicing how to use the 10 essentials.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#177725 - 06/10/13 10:35 PM Re: PSKs [Re: BP4Fun]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I had one o'them once. grin I don't think Altoids had been invented yet. confused Then there was the knife with the fork and spoon that swung out, only you couldn't fork the meat and cut it too crazy... and while I'm on the subject of seemingly good ideas that help keep you being bored, I never understood jackets with no sleeves, tents without floors but with "footprints" or cutting off 1/3 of your sleeping bag. frown
Jim grin
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#177763 - 06/11/13 11:51 PM Re: PSKs [Re: Jimshaw]
lostagain Offline
member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 48
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
I had one o'them once. grin I don't think Altoids had been invented yet. confused Then there was the knife with the fork and spoon that swung out, only you couldn't fork the meat and cut it too crazy...


I have that combo right now! My dear mom thought it would make a great gift for her "crazy outdoorsy son" grin

To the OP...as others here have said, a PSK is only of use if you can use what's in it. I've found that a FAK of some sort is essential, even if it's only bandaids and triple anitbiotic cream. I've got one of those "cheapies" from Wally World that I've taken stuff out of and added stuff I find more useful for what I'm doing. Like ohters, too, I add in the whistle, squeeze light, fire starter, tiny roll of duct tape and dental floss. I already carry a small pocket knife. And that's about it. that FAK goes in my pack, whether day, butt, or overnight, and I carry whatever number of the essentials I'll need for whatever type of trip I'm taking.

Watch those videos again, take the most useful looking items from them and make a list of those items, and determine whether any of them would be needed on any trip you might take and pack it with you.

Bottom line, you probably won't need any of it at any time. Which is a good thing. smile
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