I apologize if I posted this twice -- I was positive that I posted it but couldn't find it when I went to check on it.

Anyway, I want to improve my cold weather glove situation, and I'd like advice from gear heads about the best products/features currently out there. I see that you can spend a lot of money on high tech materials and features, but I don't know what "improvements" are real and what are just hype / marketing. What I want is probably what everyone wants -- something that will keep my hands warm even in sub-zero temps (and I do mean sub zero) but giving dexterity and breathability to the greatest extent possible so that I can use them for all of the sorts of intricate tasks that a backpacker would use them for. Durability is also important. I'm not that concerned about weight if they give me this.

I think this is really a question for the gear heads out there who really know about the features and performance of the various offerings available as of late 2012. Most of the posts I found on here are mostly people giving accounts of how they bought some cheap gloves 5 years ago and they work great -- I don't think those will be very helpful.

I'm open to mittens or mitten / glove layering systems. I'm sure that I could make an improvement just by getting some good wool or possum liners, but I have a gift card I need to use, so I can look at spending more if it is worth it.

Just to be clear, when you say "sub-zero", do you mean Fahrenheit zero? If so, I should start out saying that I have no experience at such temperatures. Where do you expect to spend much time at sub-zero F ??

In general, though I suggest you think in terms of mittens and not gloves except for a liner glove (thin polypro or the like). Dachstein (wool) mittens are quite good. Cheaper are Army surplus trigger-finger mittens if you can get them. Perhaps at the temps I think you're talking about you need down (?), but then you really can't DO much with your hands. I personally use poles when active in the outdoors at any temp.

If you're not already intimately familiar with the VBL (Vapor Barrier) concept, then you definitely need to become so if you're talking about very low temps.

Best of luck, and I'll be interested if folks with experience at outdoor activity at sub-zero F temps speak up.

If instead you're talking about sub-zero celsius, then --- that's a much more conventional handwear discussion, I expect that a search will turn up a lot of extant discussion. I still stick by my "gloves are rubbish, go with mittens" mantra, however (somewhat of a pet peeve, so many gloves on sale, so few mitten options generally).

I'm on the market for one myself too. I used fleece gloves last night, but it a mistake doing chores in the snow with them.... I'm going to look at getting a super thin glove and a big one to go over it. Super thin for when moving, doing chores, zipping stuff up, changing, etc. The big one for when sitting around campsite and really cold weather. If you have to take your gloves off to change clothes or do things like light your stove, keep shopping or get a second pair for that. Least that what I'm going to do. LOL. I'll let you know what I find when I go shopping.

What you are asking for doesn't exist, just like the cheap, light, warm sleeping bag everyone asks about. If you think you can keep your fingers warm in something thin enough to do any kind of work for very long in cold weather, you are mistaken. I know, I've tried it. Your fingers radiate heat far faster than the rest of your body, except maybe your toes, which is why mitts work better than gloves. Take a look at photos of arctic explorers or high altitude climbers. You rarely see them wearing anything but mitts or huge gloves.

I wear fleece liner style gloves under mittens. My gloves are from REI, the mitts are Grandhoe Goretex and leather with sheepskin on the back. Got them at STP. Anything similar should work. ECW (Empire Canvas and Wool) makes mitts for -40C use. TNF, Marmot, MH and others make gloves and mitts.

I'm talking sub-zero fahrenheit. So far, most of my escapades in those temps have been hunting in the midwest, where I often find my hands and fingers getting chilled. I suppose most of my mountain hiking is in warmer temps, but it still gets pretty frigid there.

Maybe I need to break this up into mittens to keep my hands warm in sub-zero (bulky) vs. the best there is out there for when you need some dexterity. On a hunting trip, for example, I would probably have the former on my left hand and the latter on my trigger hand. I was hoping that there were some gloves that would do both things, but I guess not. Part of that was based on the fact that you can spend hundreds of bucks on gloves nowadays -- I'm not sure why I would spend that kind of cash if it didn't give me great warmth with good dexterity and breathability.

As an update, since it sounds like mittens are the way to go, I'm looking at these: http://www.rei.com/product/834362/grandoe-leather-mother-goose-mittens

Any input would be appreciated.

Those look very nice!

why do you want leather shells?
As TomD said - you remove the outer mitt for a while then put it back on.
A mitt that allows you to put your thumb in direct contact with your fingers is a good idea.
I was just given some mil-extreme cold weather insulated mitts - leather with sheepskin backs for warming the face - nice - heavy.
I have some kombi goretex shelled insulated ski gloves [yes gloves] that have served me well at -5F.
Jim

I have these-
http://tinyurl.com/aty2qp6

If you are ordering online and can't try them on first, order at least one size bigger. I have small hands and ordered Large, which once I put on my gloves, were too small, so I got the XL instead. With mitts, bigger is better. Now I have room for my fleece REI gloves, so I am not switching between gloves and mitts, I'm just adding the mitts.

+1 on this. You can think of it as a surface area to volume problem. In cold weather you want that number to be small and instead your fingers are like a radiator. Another problem is that hunting is a different style activity than hiking; it's typically slower paced and therefore harder to keep your body temp up. I've used a (3 layer system) thin wool liner, glove, mitt combination when hunting where the finger part of the mitt pulls back to expose the fingers when you want access to the trigger. Works ok for between 0C and 0F (never been hunting in below 0F), but I also bring those 10hr heat packs with me to throw in the trigger hand mitt if needed. For hiking, stick with the mitt for warmth like a number have already said.

Chris

Be sure to keep your wrists warm! A lot of gloves/mittens end at the wrist and with all that blood flow right at the surface, keeping that area warm makes a huge difference.

I wear gloves with mittens over and it if is REALLY cold, overmits OVER the mittens.

The system I like for those temps is big mitts, and then liner gloves. For liner gloves, I have found I want something with grip on the fingertips. Something like nomex flight gloves, or mechanix gloves. Then I put a fingerless wool glove over those, that expose just the fingertips. And, then I put both those inside a big insulating mitten. It is good to have a mitten where you can remove the insulation. That just gives you more temp options. The idea is that you pull out your gloved hands out of the mitten when you need to do fine tasks. The gloves keep your hands from freezing for that short time, then you put them back in the mitten when you are done.

Like BrianLe, I live in an area where temps seldom get below +15F. Of course wind chill factor is a different matter; I came home today to temps in the upper 20's with 60 mph winds out of the Columbia River Gorge.

I've found that Smartwool glove liners under Mountain Laurel Designs eVent rain mitts (to block the wind) work fine with temps in the mid-to-low 20's F. Below that (or if the liner gloves get wet) I have a pair of fleece mittens from ZPacks. Again, those will be worn under the MLD rain mitts and, if it's colder or windier, over the Smartwool liners.

With wool liners, you can grab your pot without melting the gloves, as wold happen if you use synthetic liners.

Unfortunately most manufacturers have stopped selling shells and insulating mitts separately. When the combination of shell and mitt gets wet, you are really stuck unless you have a second pair of both and a way to dry the wet ones!

most manufacturers have stopped selling shells and insulating mitts separately

True, but mittens are relatively simple as sewing projects - to the point where even a klutz like me can manage to sew a pair. Which turned out to be my solution to the problem of not being able to buy rain-shell mittens.

I had some coated nylon fabric. I made some paper patterns by drawing around my hand, then I cut my fabric as two identical pieces per mitten, and hand sewed them together using a needle and thread. Seam-sealing them was the last step. Voila! They're rather crude, but they work well and weigh about 40 grams.

Sounds like I am best served thinking in terms of a weather resistent outer mitt shell and then some separate layers of insulation beneath that.

For the insulation, sounds like fleece, polypro, smartwool, boiled wool, and possumdown are all great options.

For the outer shell, I wonder what would be best. Neither leather chopper mitts nor gore-text/eVent/scholler sound particularly water resistant if I am caught in a cold rain, but I guess (in the case of the latter), that comes with the breathability. If I am going to go that route, I have been looking at the british gore-text mitten shell, which can be had for a pretty low price. Thoughts?

Also, if anyone can tell me where to get the dacstein wool mittens, I would appreciate it; I can't find them in stock anywhere.

Did you try here-
http://www.sweatersintl.com/woolmittens.html

or here - in the UK-
http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Te...in-Mitts-LAC-DM

Actually yeah I saw that; I think I moved on to try to find a better price but looks like that's the best that I'm going to get. The only other similar mitt that I found was $50. Thanks.

There is a local store here that sells gortex shells without insulation. The brand is from Europe, I think. But yeah, those things are hard to come by.

MLD makes a "rain mit" of sylnylon that looks like it would do the job. best, jcp

Actually, the Mountain Laurel Designs rain mitt is made of eVent,not silnylon). It is very lightweight. Once the seams are sealed (they include sealant with the mitts), they appear to be quite waterproof

OM, ooops, shoulda checked. Yeah, I think eVent would be even better since it breathes. Me bad. sorry, jcp