Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 
BCG Holiday Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#168245 - 08/05/12 02:44 PM Time to goAT packing
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
There's been discussion in two topics on "Hiking with Animals" about llamas, and in Jim's in '10 a mention was made about packing with goats.

On our trip to the mountains (near Mt. Sherman, a 14er) last week, we met up with a pair of packing old goats (and I don't mean old men with guns), the first we had ever seen in the 'wild.'


Peanut the packing goat.

My wife and I are both convalescing, so we were CTT (confined to trailer) when we ran into these goats.

Three guys in two trucks pulled in just before a big storm up Four Mile Creek from us, and we saw what we thought were llamas crawling out of the pick-up topper out of the back. Debbie got the binos out and said they looked like goats, big goats.

After the storm, the goats' owner rambled over with them for a visit. He was retired, lived in Monument, CO, and had the goats for more than half a decade.


Owner & goat.

Each one could carry about 40 pounds of gear and food. Grilling him, I was given the reasons he preferred goats over llamas. First was cost. He'd bought his older, bigger goat for $100 since it was registered, with the name of Rooster (Cogburn.) Peanut, the younger one, cost him $40 and was a 'rescue' goat. Compare that to prices for llamas that are in the $1,000-3,000 range, unless you get a good deal like the one Jim described.

Probably even more important is their disposition. He said they're quite intelligent and surprisingly docile. Around the campfire at night, they'll lay down by the fire and put their heads in his lap to have their ears scratched.


Peanut & Rooster Cogburn.

He was into the psychology on how to deal with them. He said he was alpha, with the bigger Rooster the Number Two and Peanut the also-ran. When I stood next to him, Rooster came over and butted me back; the owner said Rooster didn't like others to be between him and the boss. Quite loyal.

He said he makes sure the goats, especially Peanut, have on their orange waterproof vests during hunting season for obvious reasons.


Heading back to camp

Interesting sidenote was that the three guys were hiking a variety of 14ers and 13ers over the next few days with the goats. They were all ham radio enthusiasts (goats excluded) and were involved in a competition to carry lightweight ham gear up to broadcast from the peaks to record in a compilation book like birders do. So the goats toted the radio gear on the trail for them.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


Top
#168253 - 08/05/12 09:04 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: kevonionia]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Yep! and the goats also need to carry very little feed for themselves, since they are foragers. Also more agile than llamas - they can be trained to log crossings and rock hopping.

I have my sights set on a few goats myself, over the next ten years or so.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#168257 - 08/05/12 09:32 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: lori]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6399
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Some places goats are banned because of worries they might spread disease to bighorns. If I lived in a place with a little acreage that allowed them, I'd get a couple, though. I wouldn't have to mow the lawn, either!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#168264 - 08/06/12 09:22 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: OregonMouse]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Some places goats are banned because of worries they might spread disease to bighorns. If I lived in a place with a little acreage that allowed them, I'd get a couple, though. I wouldn't have to mow the lawn, either!


There was a ban in the Sierra in one area, but it's been lifted, I heard.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#168268 - 08/06/12 10:54 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: OregonMouse]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Some places goats are banned because of worries they might spread disease to bighorns. If I lived in a place with a little acreage that allowed them, I'd get a couple, though. I wouldn't have to mow the lawn, either!


Yeah, I've had goats a couple times and eating the lawn is last on their list. They prefer your most expensive or favorite plants first. About four years ago I'd planted some Lilacs in the forest below our house in the Spring. In October I took my four Pygmy Goats down there for a walk and as soon as they got through the gate they literally ran 150 feet, past all kinds of forage, straight to my lilacs and started eating them. That's just one example.

Goats are amazing escape artist. When I was a youngster we had a big male goat who, after about a year, had eaten all our, and our neighbors, plants and gardens, so we decided to give him away. One of our friends had begged us to give him that goat so we called and offered it to him. About a month later he came to visit and tell us he had to get rid of the goat too. He told us the goat had eaten his neighbor's yard which included several thousands of dollars of landscaping and he was vigorously invited to pay for it all. The unhappy neighbor was Steve McQueen, who commented that the goat was welcome to eat his lawn, but since it never even touched it he thought it might be better if the goat was relocated. laugh

Our burros are a little better, and they will eat our lawn, but they too have a varied palate and right now they've devoured my 5 acres of pasture and hay will be hitting close to $10-$15 a square bale soon, so I'll be paying dearly to keep them fat and happy till next Spring at least, and I'm not even sure I'll be able to buy any hay, even at that price. frown
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#168300 - 08/06/12 09:40 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: billstephenson]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Interesting stories. Makes you wonder what the environmental impact of grazing goats on wilderness vegetation would be. Any experiences?

Top
#168348 - 08/08/12 10:23 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: oldranger]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I have been looking at these guys for rental. Haven't contacted them yet, just thinking about it.

goat rental
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#168413 - 08/10/12 04:11 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: oldranger]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
OldRanger...

There is a group that is using goats to keep the balds around Roan Mountain bald... they are eating back the invasive species that that have infiltrated into the area. They are fed a special "seed-free" diet during the winter months when they are not on the mountain.

MNS
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

Top
#168416 - 08/10/12 04:35 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: midnightsun03]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
The thing about goats is that they will eat a variety of stuff throughout a day, and given enough room they'll keep moving along too. But that's mostly all they do is eat.

Donks and goats both eat poison ivy, which is great. I don't know how you'd keep them from eating stuff you don't want them too though. They're pretty smart, and very independent thinkers. My goats knew I didn't want them to eat my neighbor's roses, but they didn't really care. cry
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#172224 - 11/21/12 05:49 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: billstephenson]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Me and my goat herd in the Winds a few years ago. I own several and love to take them with me.


Top
#172229 - 11/21/12 11:10 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
rockchucker22 Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 749
Loc: Eastern Sierras
Originally Posted By CJennings
Me and my goat herd in the Winds a few years ago. I own several and love to take them with me.

Wow awesome picture! I sooo love it!
_________________________
The wind wont howl if the wind don't break.

Top
#172233 - 11/22/12 12:38 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: rockchucker22]
llamero Offline
member

Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 43
Loc: western Oregon
Nice photo. Looks very intriguing. Do you have to string the goats together during a hike? Do they roam free at night? How much supplemental feed per day do they need and what kind? How come you are carrying such a large pack yourself? Really, it looks like a good time.

Top
#172234 - 11/22/12 01:25 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: llamero]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By llamero
Nice photo. Looks very intriguing. Do you have to string the goats together during a hike? Do they roam free at night? How much supplemental feed per day do they need and what kind? How come you are carrying such a large pack yourself? Really, it looks like a good time.


These goats were young at the time and I didn't want to overload them. We had four people on the trip and carried a lot of gear for a week. Nowadays, they each carry 40 to 50 lbs, so I just carry a daypack. Trained packgoats do not require stringing, they follow each other...once they work out the pecking order. Some areas of the Winds require it because they are imposing rules developed for horses and mules. As far as roaming free, some areas I highline them, other areas I let them loose so they can feed at night, but mine are so bonded to me, they either sleep under my hammock or right next to my tent. They do not require supplemental feed. Sometimes I do take a ziplock bag of calf manna or Purina Goat Feed merely as a treat. Goats are browsers and will do fine, even above treeline, if there is vegetation.

Top
#172235 - 11/22/12 01:27 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Last year in the Winds, on the East side. When on the trail, they are in a straight line, but we went off-trail for a few miles.



Edited by CJennings (11/22/12 01:29 AM)

Top
#172236 - 11/22/12 01:31 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah

Top
#172237 - 11/22/12 01:34 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah

Top
#172238 - 11/22/12 01:37 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah




Edited by CJennings (11/22/12 01:43 AM)

Top
#172241 - 11/22/12 11:28 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
llamero Offline
member

Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 43
Loc: western Oregon
Looking good. Thanks.

Top
#172324 - 11/25/12 12:44 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Gorgeous pics. Beautiful goats. In the Winds, that's a dog in the back? How'd they all get along? Noticed the horns -- the guy we met had cut theirs off. Had any problem with them? And you have had them neutered?
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


Top
#172330 - 11/25/12 10:13 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: kevonionia]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By kevonionia
Gorgeous pics. Beautiful goats. In the Winds, that's a dog in the back? How'd they all get along? Noticed the horns -- the guy we met had cut theirs off. Had any problem with them? And you have had them neutered?


Thanks. One of the guys brought his bird dog along...my goats live with a Livestock Guardian Dog, his dog lives with his goats, so each is used to the other. Not always the case on the trail though. My first four goats have horns, I am switching to dis budded goats. Horns are a pain at home. All my packers are castrated. Bucks, or non-castrated goats, are disgusting and rank. Wethers behave themselves. It would not be a good idea to take a buck into the Winds, if the Bighorn Sheep ewes are cycling (in heat).

Top
#172331 - 11/25/12 10:15 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Domestic dogs can do some real damage to goats if they are not on a leash. Seems to bring out the predator instinct in some of them.

Top
#172332 - 11/25/12 10:55 AM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: CJennings]
LookinUp Offline
member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 24
Loc: NE TX
Fascinating topic! Thanks for sharing! Have you ever had any issues with cougars?

Top
#172339 - 11/25/12 02:35 PM Re: Time to goAT packing [Re: LookinUp]
CJennings Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 150
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By LookinUp
Fascinating topic! Thanks for sharing! Have you ever had any issues with cougars?


Not personally, but I know people that have had their goats killed by cougars. A few years ago I spotted a cougar in the back of my property, that's when I bought an LGD dog. We occasionally see bears, but the bears seem to leave them alone for some reason.

Top

Moderator:  Glenn Roberts 
Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Bivvy bag with wired peak
by Petro1234
01:06 PM
How cheap can you go?
by EMT Dave
12/05/17 07:07 PM
compass, thermometer, baro/altimeter
by edfardos
11/19/17 09:54 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Greetings - and a question
by valongi
11:35 AM
Just found out about UCO candles
by toddfw2003
11/30/17 08:41 AM
Hitting the eagle rock loop, Ark in 3 days
by toddfw2003
11/19/17 11:31 AM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Plant based insulation...
by billstephenson
11/18/17 02:58 PM
lightest grommets to use
by toddfw2003
10/22/17 06:13 PM
avalibility of thin ti rod
by the-gr8t-waldo
01/26/17 04:45 PM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
1 registered (), 27 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
valongi, Atkinson J, Dcarpenter, Woodland, ultralight
12469 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com