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#167347 - 06/27/12 05:02 PM Signal Mirrors
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Ok, I know more than well the supposed pros for these. I do have shiny objects I carry with me that could be used to "attract attention".

My "attract attention" mode is a tarp and hammock underquilt mylar spread out on the ground wide around me. and a big honking fire. with plenty -o- smoke from green boughs.

I know I've heard of documented evidence where people have been found (by people looking for them) when they've made large visible patches like that on the ground, or made fires.

I'm now going to commit the possible heresey I refused to do in a beginner thread. We all know attracting the attention of a helicopter with a hand mirror is *possible*, but has it *actually happened*. I.E. is there any sort of documented evidence of this being useful? or is this really something in the category of snake venom sucker bulbs.

I know you can credibly use one for signalling, as a heliograph, when the other guy is looking. I just maintain a healthy dose of "realism" if you will, about using a tiny old mirror with hole to attract the attention of an aircraft.

(You'll have a very hard time convincing me you can do a better job with the little mirror then my large meters of bright coloured and shiny stuff, and smoky fire, at least for someone looking for me, and I would contend if they are not looking for you, the only thing that's gonna get their attention is a stinger missile).

Me? I don't think my aim's good enough with one of them little things to make it practical.

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#167349 - 06/27/12 05:23 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
The smokey fire is a bit hard to do above timber.

I try to take one piece of clothing or gear that his really bright. My bivy is obnoxious safety yellow. I think movement really attracts attention. So making a "flag" from some bright colored stuff and let it blow in the wind may work. I also have a florescent orange wind jacket (actually a bicycle jacket) that others have told me that they can see me from miles away. This is the jacket.


I do not carry a mirror, never have. I do use sunglasses that have the mirrored outer layer. Does that count?

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#167350 - 06/27/12 05:25 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I have used one routinely for years in sunny southern Arizona to pinpoint my location for the benefit of other SAR teams and the helicopters supporting us. I may have mentioned in other posts about showing my location to a helo before it even took off (it was about 15 miles away). Dur the time I was active, there was at least one instance of a party needing assistance who effectively used a signal mirror to gain attention.

Actually there are many effective ways of attracting attention to helos and other aircraft. Your techniques are quite effective and will serve you well, but the aircraft needs to be fairly close. The advantage of a signal mirror is its ability to attract attention at a distance. There are cases of planes responding to a flash where the signalling party did not even see the place.

Our group ran some controlled tests on the utility of signalling (waving arms, jumping up and down versus immobility) and it makes a significant difference if you do something - almost any action will improve your chances of being spotted.

On one very memorable occasion, we ran into a climbing accident while out for fun, not SAR. We had to build a fire because when the helo came, it was night. Signal mirrors don't work too well then. Fires do indeed work 24/7.

I was out doing archaeology just last week and I used my "signal mirror" (the shiny surface on my compass) to show other members of the team my location - significant because I had the wheels to return them to camp (and the waiting cold ones). I always have either my compass or a dedicated signal mirror, or both, with me. In my old age, I am trying to set a shining example.


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#167351 - 06/27/12 05:28 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: wandering_daisy]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
The flat surface of your wrist watch will flash surprisingly well. You must have a mirror somewhere-how do you powder you nose in the wilderness???

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#167352 - 06/27/12 05:31 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: wandering_daisy]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
The smokey fire is a bit hard to do above timber.


I've burned some nylon duffels the fire was disgusting, stinky, smoky and nasty. but they burn...

If I hear a helicopter after pressing the plb and my leg's busted, trust me. my trusty old GG virga pack is going to give it's life for me (possibly with my dirty underwear), along with any handy bits of tundra and other stuff on top - a little bit of fuel and my fire starter candle for accelerant and look out.

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#167353 - 06/27/12 05:33 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: oldranger]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By oldranger
The flat surface of your wrist watch will flash surprisingly well. You must have a mirror somewhere-how do you powder you nose in the wilderness???


I trip in a marmot hole and land with a thud - dusting my face with alpine.

I'm sure WD is much more graceful at that than me. smile
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#167354 - 06/27/12 05:55 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
I'm like you....bigger the better. A space blanked scrolled onto a couple trekking poles or long sticks makes a huge aperture mirror, with smokey fire makes a hard to miss beacon.

I also carry an audio CD in my first aid kit. With a CD you get reflective surface, a free sighting hole, and when cracked in half, a couple of sharp/pointy blades.

I've heard of a few maritime rescues that involved mirrors....a small, stopped, boat is very hard to spot at altitude.
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#167355 - 06/27/12 06:40 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: Dryer]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Who wears makeup in the wilderness? Not me!

I do take a mirror--it's one of those cheap camper mirrors (Stansport, I think) cut to 1/4 its original size. Its primary purpose is in case I get something in my eye--in the meantime, I use it for a quick check for smudges on my face. I also use it for tick checks in springtime. I would never try signaling with it. I probably wouldn't need it except that almost all my backpacking is solo (my dog is not much help at that sort of thing).

I've tried using a mirror for signalling with my grandkids, just for fun, and it's really hard to do!
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#167357 - 06/27/12 08:33 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: OregonMouse]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Found an iPhone/Android lens works well for signaling. There is a simple technique to signaling but once learned is effective. I've used it to get other kayakers attention out on the lake.
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#167358 - 06/27/12 10:09 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Always have a sighting compass avec mirror, so presume (never good, presuming) I could aim it off my thumb and flash a plane or heli. Of course, it must be clear and the sun at the correct angle. Which happens, sometimes.

Vaguely recall Colin Fletcher describing his travails signaling a resupply plane in "The Complete Walker". Wasn't it his white tarp that the pilot finally saw, rather than the fire or mirror?

My bottom line: there's no one method that works for all typical situations, so you'd best have at least three tricks up your sleeve.

Cheers,
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#167361 - 06/27/12 11:47 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
A good 80% of the battle is in the mind. Lost person behavior is a topic of many SAR trainings for a reason - when someone is lost without a plan in place, they fall prey to their own minds, and do things that are not rational by the standards of people who study wilderness safety and understand what to do. Even experienced backpackers will "lose it" when they are turned around. Reading Deep Survival illuminates some of the whys behind this sort of thing.

People will refuse to backtrack, to turn around and follow their own footprints back to more known territory. They'll wander up and down believing their mental map is correct. They'll NOT walk out and wave at the helicopter flying over them - one particular instance was when we searched for two backpackers out along Mono Creek. The doctor and his friend were hiking along and the friend wanted to take a short cut down a snowbank. Doc said no, and some time later turned around to discover his friend had just done it, and was now lying quite a distance below and not responding to shouts. Doc made his way down and assessed - the friend had gained too much speed, fallen, hit his head on rocks and was now clearly in an altered state. Doc set up his friend's tent and put him in, covered him up, and went for help. Doc got lost. The helicopter flew over the meadow he set up his tent in a couple of times, then took the time to land and interview him - only to find out he was one of the missing hikers. He did NOTHING to get the helo's attention.

Granted, his friend was as good as dead (he did die) when he struck the rock. He was probably in an extreme state of shock and not really functional. But, this experienced backpacker and intelligent man did not use a signal mirror, tarp, or any other method of signaling the searchers.

We all like to think we will do what we believe is correct, but there are times that "correct" is just what makes sense to us at the time. One of the reasons I try to practice some of the survival skills often is to commit them to the sort of memory that still functions when adrenalin is in play, and shock, and that semi-altered state that we enter when suddenly the best thing you can do is to stay calm, because it's also the hardest thing to do.

I do carry a signal mirror because it is easier to aim precisely with it.
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#167364 - 06/28/12 12:16 AM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: Rick_D]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
I you remember from Colin Fletchers "The Man Who Walked Through Time," he tried both a signal mirror and a bright orange jacket to attact attention for his food drop on that hike. Neither worked worth a damn. they finally saw his cheapie blue tarp.

Bear in mind that in the red rocks of the Grand Canyon, and orange jacket is going to look like everything else.

But they never saw the mirror.

We take one, so M can carefully apply sunscreen to her lovely face.
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#167365 - 06/28/12 12:18 AM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: Dryer]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Dryer
Found an iPhone/Android lens works well for signaling. There is a simple technique to signaling but once learned is effective. I've used it to get other kayakers attention out on the lake.


Mentally picturing myself in a canoe.. "signaling" with the lens of my Ice Cream Sandwitch android... wiggle wiggle wiggle... fumble.. clunk... sploosh..

followed by several minutes of loud blue language..

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#167375 - 06/28/12 11:50 AM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Originally Posted By phat
... sploosh..

followed by several minutes of loud blue language..



That will probably help get peoples attention

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#167381 - 06/28/12 04:30 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
followed by several minutes of loud blue language..

grin
My wife and I tried the iphone/adroid thing across a 100 yd. stretch of my nature preserve. We flash each other (with the phones ;)) and suddenly mine rings. "Can you see the damn thing or not?", she asks. I about dropped mine in the dirt I was laughing so hard. laugh
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#167392 - 06/29/12 01:05 AM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: Dryer]
Samoset Offline
member

Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 429
Loc: Newnan ,GA
Mirrors are bright and usefull tools! A good friend of mine and I use them as means of communication while fly fishin! What I find interesting is even down here in the se in a river valley I can reflect the smallest beam of sunshine down to a man on a river fishing three hundred yards away. And he knows I'm headed back to camp with dinner in hand! We have kind of our own mirror fishing language!

And it's very effective!

Wile standing in the river you generally have a bit of visual up to the hill sides and can signal back or use some sort of sign language or hand gestures to signal back! A deflected sun been in your face catches your attention like nothing else on the backcountry compleately un natural !

No batteries! And mines pretty much indestructable

If you ever get something stuck in your eye or a face wound you will be glad you have it!

mines prob gets most of its use picking trout from teeth after dinner wink
Or just for making sure I don't look like a compleately Scallywag while trying to hitch it back to town for some grub and a pint !

Bottom line! While trekking,hunting or just chillin in backcountry. For the weight I wouldn't be caught dead without one!
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#167393 - 06/29/12 01:43 AM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: Samoset]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
There is another application for signal mirrors. They make very good light sources if you want to investigate dark cave entrances or similar. they are excellent at throw and illuminate the area in which the beam strikes quite brilliantly. I learned this trick when investigating mine shafts for a missing Park Ranger some years ago in Arizona. The Mine Safety guys came out with a recycled medicine cabinet mirror which easily lit up lower levels of mine shafts 100 feet or more distant.

Of course packing around a cabinet door doesn't sit well with the lightweight philosophy of this forum, but smaller sizes will also work well.

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#167398 - 06/29/12 04:36 PM Re: Signal Mirrors [Re: phat]
Indy Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/13/12
Posts: 12
I'll echo the space blanket thoughts. It's one of the required gear items in nearly every adventure race I've seen/done, so there's always on in any pack I carry. I do have a small-ish (3x5) mirror, too, since they make putting in and taking out contact lenses a hundred times easier.

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