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#165500 - 04/30/12 03:24 PM Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued
TomD Offline
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Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA


Edited by TomD (04/30/12 03:35 PM)
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#165501 - 04/30/12 03:44 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: TomD]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
the comments are interesting

Agreed. While it is obvious that this woman was like almost every day hiker who ever got in bad straits, in that she was very ill-prepared to spend an unscheduled night outdoors, and was apparently blithely unaware of what was required to keep herself safe while solo hiking in the desert, some of the commentors seem to think she should have been equipped for an arctic expedition. crazy

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#165505 - 04/30/12 07:57 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: TomD]
billstephenson Offline
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I can see how one could break a leg like she did, but a 6 mile day hike is plenty long enough for to carry a pack with overnight gear and some extra food and water.

Some of the comments were indeed interesting, and it's pretty easy to tell which among them were written by backpackers.
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#165513 - 05/01/12 06:31 AM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: billstephenson]
Gershon Offline
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Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By billstephenson
I can see how one could break a leg like she did, but a 6 mile day hike is plenty long enough for to carry a pack with overnight gear and some extra food and water.

Some of the comments were indeed interesting, and it's pretty easy to tell which among them were written by backpackers.


Usually, I carry overnight gear on every day hike unless it is a tourist trail where there are a lot of people. Since she made it for 3 nights, I don't criticize her on the choice of gear.

She also kept her head and didn't panic.

A great itinerary isn't going to help much if a person is injured in the first mile of a day hike. It may be the next day before help arrives.

Personally, I consider a SPOT a piece of essential gear. She might not have had to spend a single night if she had one. I think more people would own a SPOT if it were cheaper, or if they had a daily rate so people could only buy what they need.

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#165545 - 05/01/12 11:14 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: Gershon]
wandering_daisy Offline
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Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Sounds to me that she did many things right to survive. Carrying overnight gear on a 6-mile day hike is a bit over the top for me. A 6-mile day hike is NOT a long hike. She got lost and rather than risk walking in the dark she stayed put until daylight. She did exactly what she should have -keep track of water sources, and once injured, stayed put regularly exercise to stay warm, keep her head, do not panic. The one mistake that I see is that she should have notified someone that she was going out. That is THE LESSON. Other than that, I do not see a lot of poor decisions. I wonder if she were a "he" so many cruel comments about her would have been said. Some of the comments made assumptions: woman=inexperienced, woman=should not be alone in a remote area, and oh, lets be particulary critical because she was ahh!! a Mormon woman, and an older one at that. Many of us on this forum go into remote areas alone, and without SPOT. The big delay in her rescue was that nobody knew she was gone. If you tell someone where you are going on a day-hike you do not need SPOT. If she were on a 12-day backpack, maybe the SPOT issue would be something to consider.


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#165546 - 05/01/12 11:43 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: wandering_daisy]
balzaccom Online   content
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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
Nice post Daisy. I am with you 100%

I have never taken overnight gear on a 6 mile hike---but then I am always hiking with my wife. And with one more person, the equation changes completely.

I think this woman did pretty well...

After all, she had MENTAL TOUGHNESS! grin.

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#165548 - 05/02/12 12:00 AM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: wandering_daisy]
aimless Online   content
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Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
Carrying overnight gear on a 6-mile day hike is a bit over the top for me. A 6-mile day hike is NOT a long hike.

I do not think that length is the issue. If she got lost, it was either because the trail was not well-marked, or else she left it. In either case, the hazard cannot be measured by mileage, but by remoteness from other foot traffic. Leaving the trail, not carrying overnight gear, in a lightly travelled area, and jumping off four-foot cliffs, when no one knows where you are, is stacking your mistakes. No one of them seems all that risky, but she didn't notice how she was accumulating risk at each of those steps, until it amounted to a fair bit - enough to land her in a pretty bad pickle.

I am very glad she survived, and her actions once she was in the soup were appropriate and helpful for that survival. It helps even more to not get in the soup and she omitted many prudent steps that could have saved her from that eventuality.

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#165550 - 05/02/12 12:19 AM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: balzaccom]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
She had the survivor's mind - nothing to do with tough, everything to do with acceptance of the situation. She followed a pattern Laurence Gonzales talks about repeatedly in Deep Survival. Acceptance of the situation, of impending death, and then methodically making decisions that resulted in her survival.

People who can't shift gears the way she did don't make it. They start to make bad decisions really fast. The cumulative result of all those decisions will be the killer.

People have died within a mile of a trailhead in freak accidents. Being prepared for an overnight wouldn't have helped them much... sometimes things happen. I've noticed they tend to happen when you are not paying attention due to complacency - I have gotten hurt in parking lots at trailheads, never on the trail. The only broken bone that's happened on one of the group's hikes was on a four mile hike within 20 miles of town - not out in the wilderness far from the trail. He was an experienced backpacker who failed to take seriously a short day hike, and did not bring a whistle, or other basics.

Those 10 essentials we talk about would have helped the lady - she had some of them, she used the poncho for a shelter of sorts. She could have been warmer if she'd been able to build a fire, but she survived.
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#165553 - 05/02/12 12:40 AM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: lori]
OregonMouse Online   content
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Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I never take overnight gear on a day hike, but I do take enough clothing (iinsulation and rain gear) so I can stay warm and dry (if not 100% comfortable) if I'm caught out overnight. I do take all 15 of the "Ten" Essentials. Not all of these items are essential for every hike, but it's easier just to leave my daypack packed so I can grab it and go.

I agree, her big lack was not leaving an itinerary with somebody. I tend not to do that for day hikes, either, but I do carry a Personal Locator Beacon should I get injured and not be able to self-evacuate. While I bought it primarily to keep friends and family off my back (psychological weight saving), that feature alone made it well worth the price!


Edited by OregonMouse (05/02/12 12:46 AM)
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#165555 - 05/02/12 08:48 AM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: wandering_daisy]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By W_D
Carrying overnight gear on a 6-mile day hike is a bit over the top for me. A 6-mile day hike is NOT a long hike. She got lost and rather than risk walking in the dark she stayed put until daylight. She did exactly what she should have...


It was long enough for her to get lost so it's fair to say it was too long to not be prepared for spending the night. I take overnight gear every time I do a solo hike like that, and I do hikes like that a lot.

Aimless mentioned that the remoteness of the trail is a factor and that's not something that can be ignored. Neither can the temps. Those are two of the reasons I take overnight gear with me on a day hike like that. Another is I might break my leg, which I recently listed as #1 on my list of concerns when hiking (and I've never broken a bone).

In this case, her biggest problem once she was lost was getting cold. She was not in immediate peril of death from the broken leg or hunger, it was going hypothermic at night when the temps dropped.

Had she not been found for a few more days the difference between being found dead or alive could have been a 3 ounce emergency blanket that costs $2-$6 and fits in your hip pocket.

It doesn't matter how much experience you have, if you go out ill prepared your chances of bad things happening increase substantially. I'm all for noting and learning from what she did right, but I won't ignore what she did wrong. She did a lot of things wrong and almost died as a result.

You have to always be humble in this sport because you're dealing directly with the forces of nature. We've all seen experience lead to complacency, and that seems to be what happened here. We can't afford to be complacent in this sport, it's taken the lives of those with experience and skills far beyond my own, and often times with the most common of mistakes. That, to me, is always quite humbling. This case is no exception.

Quote:
woman=should not be alone in a remote area


That quote was about the dumbest one I read in the comments Tom linked to. It did make me laugh though. I thought about W_D, Lori, and OM sitting at a table with that guy when he said that and how much fun it would be to see what ensued from there. laugh
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#165556 - 05/02/12 09:12 AM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: OregonMouse]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
I never take overnight gear on a day hike, but I do take enough clothing (iinsulation and rain gear) so I can stay warm and dry (if not 100% comfortable) if I'm caught out overnight.


That's I mean when I say "overnight gear" for a day hike. It's doesn't have to be a sleeping bag and tent, but it should be enough to survive with a greater degree of comfort than nothing.

I generally take at least my fleece bag and/or an emergency blanket or two. When it's cold and I'm going bushwhacking where I'd be hard to find I take a full backpack setup with a couple days of food in it. I'd feel pretty stupid if I got stuck and didn't have it.

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#165576 - 05/02/12 11:00 AM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: billstephenson]
JPete Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 304
Loc: Eastern Ontario
I'm in complete agreement with those posters, especially Bill Stephenson, who both admire this woman's handling of the situation, but also carry enough to stay out overnight.

First, I've always felt, from both my own experience and from the little bit of SAR that I have done, that attitude (and maybe a bit of knowledge) are far, far more important than equipment in the type of situation she was in.

But having said that, my daypack, which stays packed, has an emergency blanket, a ti cup, folding stove and a few heat tabs, plus most of a day's food (with extra tea bags).

My favorite line on getting lost or hurt is, "first, sit down and make a cup of tea".

Yeah, a whistle, knife, lighter, flashlight and extra batteries and leaving your itinerary are all important. I also have a FAK with a couple of very strong pain pills so I can move around enough to bivy up.

Strikes me that the woman handled it very well. And yes, I'd love to see the "round table suggested above.

best, jcp


Edited by JPete (05/02/12 11:01 AM)

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#165580 - 05/02/12 01:33 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: billstephenson]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
Fair enough. If overnight gear means a fleece and a rain shell, then we carry overnight gear on day hikes. And yes, we carry our essentials.
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#165688 - 05/06/12 11:41 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: balzaccom]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Don't forget, those comments were posted in a local newspaper, not on a hiking forum, so expect some to be far more critical than what we might expect to see here or on other outdoor forums.

As for what anyone should carry, I would suggest carrying enough to survive until someone would find you if you did not return. That could mean anything from a light jacket and a few energy bars to a full kit of winter gear, bag, shelter and stove included. In Yosemite in winter, for example, if I was walking out of sight of my tent, I had enough to support me for at least two days, which might not have been enough for an extended bivouac, but probably would so given the possibility of being found in a busy park, even in winter.


Edited by TomD (05/06/12 11:45 PM)
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#165698 - 05/07/12 01:11 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: TomD]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Every time there's a SAR callout that makes the news media (most of them don't) around here, there are a ton of comments, saying either "You need to take a GPS so you can summon help" (???) or "Those needing rescue should be charged" even though nearly all the SAR efforts are volunteer. I've found it's best not to read the comments on any news article.

Plus the news articles always leave out half the important info!
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#165706 - 05/07/12 04:29 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: OregonMouse]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Every time there's a SAR callout that makes the news media (most of them don't) around here, there are a ton of comments, saying either "You need to take a GPS so you can summon help" (???) or "Those needing rescue should be charged" even though nearly all the SAR efforts are volunteer. I've found it's best not to read the comments on any news article.

Plus the news articles always leave out half the important info!


Exactly. And then the posters on the point out all the things they would have done differently.

Nobody ever makes a mistake when they hike on the internet!

And, of course, just about every disaster starts with a series of decisions...each one making the next one possible. But it't the combination that ends up being so disastrous. How many problems have been averted because the first thing went bad....and then somebody adjusted....and everything was just fine?

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Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#165750 - 05/08/12 10:43 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: TomD]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Irregardless of any sexism,

just because some experienced women choose to go "unprepared" on a hike, does not make that a prudent course for less experienced women.

Speaking as a man, I do lots of unprudent things, but I do not reccommend them to the inexperienced as I can get away with things they can't.

Jim
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#166796 - 06/12/12 09:09 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: Jimshaw]
sandia Offline
member

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 68
Irregardless....
I always take several firearms, plutonium detoxification tablets, a lead blanket in case of nuclear attack, 900 goose down/goretex suit... and fish hooks....and also cigarettes to trade with invading armies and nicotine-addicted bear & moose.

Not to forget tracheotomy tube, inflatable full-body splint, helicopter rescue sling, hotline radio to local militia/SAR units and back-up first aide kit, plus survival cards with various helpful instructions printed on them and a year's supply of morphine tablets.

This is the minimum kit required for any summer day hike away from urban core zones. In urban core, survival simply cannot be assured & thus cyanide tablets are indicated.

I've been living in Canada and Antarctica for 60 years, and believe you me: if you think I'm wrong, you're wrong... Dead wrong...

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#166800 - 06/12/12 09:27 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: Jimshaw]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
The news article said she was an experienced outdoorswoman. So I do not think your comment applies in this case. I agree that the less experience, the more "backup" equipment you should take. News articles netoriously get thing wrong, so I am skeptical about anything said.

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#166801 - 06/12/12 09:37 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: wandering_daisy]
sandia Offline
member

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 68
See "Herter's" outdoor catalog of 1967.
Or google Herter + "New York Times"
Dang newspaper reporters!

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#167114 - 06/22/12 10:50 PM Re: Another lesson learned the hard way-hiker rescued [Re: sandia]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Hey I got yer Herters fish hooks right here...

A bunch of my flytying stuff inherited from my uncle was from Herters. I remember they had elephants foot waste paper baskets and rare bird feathers. As I recall they got shut down over the bird feathers - like Argus pheasant and a few others. I used to drool over the feathers - they sold them individually.

Jim smile
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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