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#161937 - 02/10/12 08:52 AM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Steadman]
Barefoot Friar Offline
member

Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 176
Loc: Houston, Alabama
Originally Posted By Steadman
I think the core idea here (to answer the OP's question) is that the conversation has to be had with his spouse BEFORE making the commitment to go.

"Manning up" does not entail abandoning your love ones (abandoning being different than leaving behind). Abandoning family is the antithesis of manning up - and the "traditional" marriage vows.

If the OP's spouse can't handle the idea of him doing an optional deployment, than perhaps the AT isn't in the cards for now. If she can, then it might be. It depends on their ground rules - which he needs to go talk with her and set.

If long seperations are going to be part of the marriage, I'll share a Marine MSGT's very good advice to me about marriage - do a deployment first, then get married, not the other way around.

Steadman


This isn't going to be a regular thing. My vocation simply won't allow it. Nor am I going to abandon her or break up with her over this. I'll choose her over the dream, because in every other way she is a perfect fit for me. And I have a feeling that, someday, either she will come along with me or else she will be good with me going on that once-in-a-lifetime trip.

I had a brief window of opportunity for this coming summer. But I'm just not to the point in our relationship where I'm ready to go away for several months.

So that's why I asked. It would appear that those who go and do longer trips have mostly all been in that particular relationship for quite a while, and it has grown to the point where the separation isn't as big of a deal as it would have been at another point in time.

I can foresee a time when I get to do this along side kids or spouse. I'm good with waiting that long. I can consider all my hiking between now and then to be getting prepared for the Big One, so that when that opportunity does arise I'm ready and able.
_________________________
"Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; then you will find rest for your souls."

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#161940 - 02/10/12 10:16 AM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Barefoot Friar]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By Barefoot Friar
Originally Posted By Steadman
I think the core idea here (to answer the OP's question) is that the conversation has to be had with his spouse BEFORE making the commitment to go.

"Manning up" does not entail abandoning your love ones (abandoning being different than leaving behind). Abandoning family is the antithesis of manning up - and the "traditional" marriage vows.

If the OP's spouse can't handle the idea of him doing an optional deployment, than perhaps the AT isn't in the cards for now. If she can, then it might be. It depends on their ground rules - which he needs to go talk with her and set.

If long seperations are going to be part of the marriage, I'll share a Marine MSGT's very good advice to me about marriage - do a deployment first, then get married, not the other way around.

Steadman


This isn't going to be a regular thing. My vocation simply won't allow it. Nor am I going to abandon her or break up with her over this. I'll choose her over the dream, because in every other way she is a perfect fit for me. And I have a feeling that, someday, either she will come along with me or else she will be good with me going on that once-in-a-lifetime trip.

I had a brief window of opportunity for this coming summer. But I'm just not to the point in our relationship where I'm ready to go away for several months.

So that's why I asked. It would appear that those who go and do longer trips have mostly all been in that particular relationship for quite a while, and it has grown to the point where the separation isn't as big of a deal as it would have been at another point in time.

I can foresee a time when I get to do this along side kids or spouse. I'm good with waiting that long. I can consider all my hiking between now and then to be getting prepared for the Big One, so that when that opportunity does arise I'm ready and able.


This is close to the way I see it. I plan to do a Big One later with my wife. If she doesn't want to come, then that is her choice. I also want to do it with my kids. For me, I enjoy being with my family, and I enjoy backpacking, so why not combine the two.
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#161941 - 02/10/12 11:00 AM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Jimshaw]
Hawke Offline
member

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 48
Loc: Denver, CO
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am CERTAINLY enjoying all the comments and discourse. Keep it up!

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#161950 - 02/10/12 12:55 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Steadman]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By Steadman
"Manning up" does not entail abandoning your love ones (abandoning being different than leaving behind). Abandoning family is the antithesis of manning up - and the "traditional" marriage vows.


While I agree with your views overall, that's far removed from the context in which I used that phrase, which was, if you know you're going to leave her so you can pursue your dream, then tell her now.

Originally Posted By Heather AK
First 10 years the contract was I would freak if he was gone longer than overnight. Now... yawn - 3 weeks, whatever - I'm just not that clingy anymore. Does that mean our relationship is on the rocks, nope - just different.


Heather, that's a great point and it illustrates that maturity has a lot to do with how well we handle separation. My youngest daughters are still in the "freak" mode, they still imagine all sorts of going ons when their SOs are away. I've been dealing with it since they had their first crush on a boy. They're in their mid-20s now and really just now learning how to deal with it, and it's nice to see that growth.

I wouldn't surprise me a bit if, in a few years, Barefoot Friar's wife was asking him "So, how long do I have to wait now before you start that thru-hike?" laugh

Originally Posted By Barefoot Friar
I'll choose her over the dream, because in every other way she is a perfect fit for me.
...

I can foresee a time when I get to do this along side kids or spouse. I'm good with waiting that long.


Not that is matters a bit, but as a father to three daughters that's "man enough" for me and I don't think you'll have any regrets at all with those choices. Keep looking forward to that hike and you'll do it.
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"You want to go where?"



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#161962 - 02/10/12 04:10 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Heather-ak]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Heather said, "First 10 years the contract was I would freak if he was gone longer than overnight."

you did say that didn't you Heather?
Doesn't this imply that during the first ten years it would have been a problem for you if he left to hike for 5 months?
Isn't that what I was talking about - the guy hasn't had any time to establish either trust nor a need for space?

Anyway as I see it, the women are mostly saying it would be no big deal to them if their (new) husband left for several months to do a major hike. I know women who are totally happy living alone and I certainly do not think any less of bachelorettes. I guess if you say so..., but I really don't believe it unless those women have carears with big pay checks they would not want to be left without support. To women who got married to have children, and get away from their parents home, and form a financial union, having a mate gone is a problem.

But anyway it obviously depends on the people involved and whether this is outside the envelope of their expectations. You can't say manup or woman up, everone is entitled to be different. I just don't think most people get married with the intention of being alone afterwards. Steadman said if you're being deployed, get married after one deployment, if she's still there..................... right

Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#161965 - 02/10/12 04:50 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Jimshaw]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I did indeed say that Jimshaw - though it wasn't my point. My point that everyone has their own needs and expectations, and sometimes they change.

Heck I was married at 20... I had some growing up to do, like Bill said wink. I needed to learn that I could deal on my own (which because I was lucky and met "the" guy early (15) I didn't learn sooner.) It would have been life threatening if I had lost him during that time - and I don't think it was healthy _for me_.

However, I do think some people can handle their "new" wife or husband hiking for 5 months - and I think I probably could have, had I been married later in life.

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#161966 - 02/10/12 05:00 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Jimshaw]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I don't think anyone gets married intending to have any of the myriad of things that frequently happen in a relationship to happen.

No one gets married to be a widow, a divorcee, a trophy wife, a domestic violence victim, a caretaker to a prematurely-disabled spouse... no one expects to suffer bankruptcy, loss of a child, loss of parents....

Marrying a backpacker at least gives you a lot of forewarning as to the potential outcomes and the ability to prepare yourself for the potentially relationship-killing strain.

_________________________
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#161971 - 02/10/12 07:15 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Jimshaw]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
You can't say manup or woman up, everone is entitled to be different.


Sure you can. It has nothing to do with insisting they do what you want, it has to do with insisting they be honest and fair.

Look, if a guy my daughter is dating confides in me his devout love for her, and she tells me she doesn't really like him, but "since he has a cool car I'm not going to break up with him", I will feel just fine telling her to "Grow up", or "Man up" or "Woman up".

To me they all mean the same thing and it's not my fault our language doesn't have a good word that means both men and women. I suspect some other languages do, but "Human up" just doesn't have the right ring to it, and "People up" is even worse.

I think "Men" could work in a non-gender way ("Men up") . We'd have to use "Mans" as a plural if we did that I suppose. That's okay though, "Man's" is seldom used anymore anyway, unless it's in a past tense laugh
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#161972 - 02/10/12 07:43 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Barefoot Friar]
Barefoot Friar Offline
member

Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 176
Loc: Houston, Alabama
Uhm.

I didn't mean for my poor choice in wording in the OP to be the cause of divison. Just for the sake of clarity:

When I said "I suppose I should just man up and go...", I was musing that, at least on some level, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and chase that particular dream instead of staying home and wishing.

"Hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all."
-- Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Then again, as I've thought more about it and as I've read the responses to the OP, I've changed my mind. But even more than that, a good discussion with the wonderful lady in question helped clarify things as well. So now I'm just going to sit back and wait a bit. A better opportunity will present itself; if not, then oh well. I'm trading one dream for another, choosing between great option A and great option B -- with the possibility of getting the other one later.

I didn't mean to imply that to "man up" meant anything negative at all, especially when it comes to my S/O -- I consider her needs above my own, for that is how I was taught to love. So in that context, to "man up" would be to stay home, finish my degree, and earn a good living so that she can have the things she needs and wants. And trust me, I'm really happy with that option.
_________________________
"Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; then you will find rest for your souls."

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#161975 - 02/10/12 11:00 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: billstephenson]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
Bill... sorry... that wasn't meant as a dig at you. Just drawing a distinction between abandonment and departure.

Jim, I've seen a lot of marriages break up and careers derail because neither spouse knew what they were getting in to, and couldn't communicate their wants, needs (including career demands), and desires to their better half, and then take their spouse's concerns into account. I'll suggest that if backpacking is going to be part of the deal in a relationship that doing some of it while an unmarried couple is a good idea - then both parties know what they are getting into, and if that choice is sustainable within the context of the relationship. Showing is a means of communication, and probably one of the best ones for the less verbal among us.

Heather, you are so right about the deal changing over time.

Barefoot Friar, I think that your post struck to the very center of the issue - which is why you got as strong of a response as you did.

Good Luck!!


Steadman



Edited by Steadman (02/10/12 11:29 PM)

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#161984 - 02/11/12 12:58 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Steadman]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Steadman, no apology is necessary, as I said, I agree with all your thoughts on this.

Honestly, I think this has been one of the most insightful discussions we've had here, everyone has shared something important and the cumulative value of this shared experienced based wisdom is, to say the very least, impressive.

And not to blow my own horn, but c'mon ya'll, that "Man's" joke was pretty darn funny now....
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"You want to go where?"



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#162036 - 02/12/12 01:50 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Barefoot Friar]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
BF
Thanks for starting a thread that people could get into. smile Obviously there has been some meaningful exchange that even made you change your mind. Thats what discussion is about - looking at different viewpoints and considering why they are the way they are and how they changed over time. While I have taken one side for the sake of discussion, I surely see the value of the others input. I have enjoyed the exchange. These personal level things help to tie the group together because we can form a better understanding of how other members REALLY feel about us and themselves. I feel closer to Heather after this - she is becoming (in my mind) someone I have an emotional feel for - not someone who types unfelt responses. People have been very GENUINE in this thread.
Jim smile
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#162056 - 02/12/12 10:11 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Heather-ak]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

I dunno about that Heather. Chenelle and I have been married for 23 years this year, and us as well, since we were 20. I'm not sure yet that she'll be very thrilled at me taking off for 5 months backpacking, although I've been away for 2 and 3 weeks at
a time semi-frequently.

Part of it as well is work, household duties, and supporting each other in that. For me at least, we not both have careers and adult children (18 and 20) still at home - however with both of them attending university there are some pretty big financial commitments, and just having someone at home in the evening to share the cooking and cleaning and stuff still matters a lot. I think once my kids actually leave the nest, I may be ready to think about such things. I do have a running threat about my daughter getting married if she ever does, that I want nothing to do with dress shopping and drama.. "she's not my daughter till her hair is done". so the running joke is I'll go thru hike something while they go dress shopping and other sillyness. Somehow I don't think I'll get away with it. smile

But this (and money, jobs, etc) is what keeps me from taking much longer trips. Not such a bad thing necessarily. I do miss her when I'm away wink

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#162077 - 02/13/12 11:28 AM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: phat]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Quote:
"... and just having someone at home in the evening to share the cooking and cleaning and stuff still matters a lot."

There's no doubt that this is true, but I find that my wife has a lot better overall social life than I do, and she seems to keep busy and happy enough.

I think there's a good chance that she'll outlive me, and at least now I know for certain that she's well equipped to do that, as she's had a lot of months of living alone and having to do just everything. Perhaps my bigger worry is whether she secretly prefers it when I'm gone! (I'm sure there are days ...) :-)
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#162085 - 02/13/12 02:18 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: phat]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Originally Posted By phat

I do have a running threat about my daughter getting married if she ever does, that I want nothing to do with dress shopping and drama.. "she's not my daughter till her hair is done". so the running joke is I'll go thru hike something while they go dress shopping and other sillyness. Somehow I don't think I'll get away with it. smile


Actually, your primary purposes as father of the bride will be (1) move furniture, (2) make speeches and (3) most important, pay the bills!
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#162110 - 02/13/12 05:14 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Yeah, that was my experience. I had three jobs: walk about a hundred feet, say "Her mother and I," and write checks without your hand shaking because there's a comma in it. smile

I did find one other thing I could do: resolve arguments between mother and daughter. When they disagreed about some detail, I simply expressed an opinion (didn't matter what the opinion was): that was enough to unite them on the point that I was wrong, and they moved on.

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#162113 - 02/13/12 05:55 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Glenn]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
I simply expressed an opinion (didn't matter what the opinion was): that was enough to unite them on the point that I was wrong, and they moved on.


That 's all just too darn funny lol

We lucked out when our first daughter got married. Our second daughter entered a "Bride's maid" contest they had on a local radio station, enlisted her younger sister and some friends help, and won $10,000 worth of stuff. Dresses for them all, spa and make-up sessions, dinners, parties, limo, catering, and other stuff. We had to pony up for a few things, but those gals busted their butts to win that contest. (I do remember my wife buying something like 200 little cartons of orange juice to make sure our girls won one of the many rounds they went through for that wink ) As it turned out, our team was in last place before the final challenge which was to see who could get the most famous celebrity to call the radio station. The runner ups got a local guy that was on "Who wants to marry a millionaire", and our team got "Johnny Lee" who sang "Lookin for love in all the wrong places". laugh
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#162114 - 02/13/12 05:58 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: billstephenson]
Barefoot Friar Offline
member

Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 176
Loc: Houston, Alabama
"Johnny Lee" doesn't go by Bill Stephenson, does he? wink
_________________________
"Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; then you will find rest for your souls."

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#162117 - 02/13/12 06:24 PM Re: Leaving the loved ones behind [Re: Barefoot Friar]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
LOL laugh

Naw, I could never pull it off, unless maybe if they didn't ask me to sing grin

We live near Branson, Missouri and he performs here a lot. I don't know him, but my wife and kids all do, and he knows practically everyone else around here too wink
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