If it's cold out and your remote canister stove has a generator (a pre-heat mechanism), then you can invert (turn upside down) the canister. Inverting the canister means that you're sucking liquid off the bottom of the canister instead of sucking vapor off the top. Now, liquid fuel goes to the burner where the heat of the flame vaporizes fuel. If the heat of the flame is doing the vaporization, you're far less dependent on the weather.



In fact, all you need from the weather is just enough warmth to keep a little pressure in the canister, just enough pressure to get some liquefied gas to the burner where the heat of the flame will take care of the rest. And that pressure should be pretty easy to come by. Unlike upright operation, the propane content of your canister does not burn off faster. With inverted operation (liquid feed gas), your gas mix -- and thus your canister pressure for a given outside temperature -- stays fairly constant.

As a practical matter, you can run your stove inverted in weather that's about 20F/10C colder than if your ran your stove upright.

Wow, gas in colder weather? All the simmering, none of the priming. How sweet is that?

Um, but what's the catch?

Well, the "catch" is that remote canister stoves that can handle inverted operation usually weigh two or three times what an upright stove weighs. But we're making progress.

Today, on my blog, I feature a guest post by Geoff R from Australia. Geoff reviews the Kovea Camp 5. The Camp 5 weighs 142g/5.5oz. Which, while not as light as an upright stove, is a step in the right direction, particularly when you compare the Camp 5 to other remote canister stoves like the MSR WindPro (227g/8oz) and the Primus Express Spider (198g/7oz).

HJ

Thanks HJ, that puts some heat out.
Duane

A better design is the Coleman Xtreme. Jim Shaw has one and so do I. Jim has the two burner version. The problem is finding the canisters. Coleman quit making the stoves, so canisters are not far behind. With the Coleman, the canisters lay on their side and the fuel pickup is at the bottom, so liquidified gas is sucked up into the stove, no need to stand the cartridge upside down.

When I did an o/n trip with Jim, I was very impressed with its power. HJ sold me one of his single burners. Fuel can be hard to find, the adapter will let you use regular canisters. I'm waiting for the right conditions to use it. I have another Coleman the Power Boost that I need to try out too, it is unused, 23,900 btu's.

Duane

Hi, Tom,

Completely agree. The Coleman Xtreme is the "gold standard" of cold weather gas backpacking stoves. Period. There's simply nothing better in the way of a winter gas backpacking stove out there.

Likewise, the Coleman Xpedition is equally excellent but has two burners.

But they're a thing of the past now. Coleman has discontinued not only the stoves but now (2011) Coleman has discontinued PowerMax canisters.

Once the current supply that's out there is gone, that's it. I'm working on ways to refill them. I made Duane swear that he wouldn't throw away his canisters once he used them up.

Yes, you can buy an adapter (I have one), but that's extra weight, extra bulk, and extra "fiddle."

The purpose in this post on the Camp 5 was to show what's available now that the best has been, regrettably, discontinued.

DANG those PowerMax canisters are nice. The canister weighs less for a 300g size than a 100g sized regular canister. That's light.

I wish MSR had come up with the idea. I bet if MSR had come up with it, the PowerMax canister would have survived. But nobody takes Coleman seriously for backpacking. "Coleman is the family camping company."

HJ

Jim, I can't find any of the Coleman canisters locally. I saw a few on the net, but they were really expensive. I think I have one or two.

This reminds me of the Betamax v. VHS battle-Betamax was a superior format, but VHS overpowered it with marketing. Trying to get a new format to reach the tipping point for popularity is costly and obviously Coleman couldn't do it with just their own stoves.

As soon as I found out they were being discontinued, I drove around and picked up as many as I could. They're still available on eBay, but expensive. You can also get an adapter.

If you really are stuck for some, PM me. I think you live in my general area. I could let a couple of 'em go. Please DON'T throw your old ones away. I want the empties for my refilling experiments.


Perfect example, and, like BetaMax, the better canister did not win.

HJ

Ahem.. not quite, although it might be..

Beta died for a couple of simple reasons that had little to do with marketing.

1) Licenseing fees, people say there's no evidence, but Sony is famous for this. they kill everything they make by being proprietary. I know the machines were more expensive at the time, and so were the tapes.

2) (the big one) 60 minute tapes. You can't record a movie on it. VHS, while an inferior format, could put a movie on a tape. Sony eventually fixed this, but too late.

3) Porn. the reasons are obscure (some say Sony not wanting it to be allowed, and some alluding to #2 above) but the fact is video store rentals, and adult video rentals drove the industry.

So really, not markteting, but more like market adoption, which can be driven by lots of reasons. (like the above)

I can't be sure why powermax died - I know I didn't ever see a canister made by anyone but coleman - was it a licensed proprietary technology that other manufactureres would have to pay for? Not sure. but if it was they might have "sony'ed" it.

Coleman is the only company that ever made PowerMax canisters (unless some were made in China or something). I'm sure they held a patent. I don't know if other companies were free to copy the connector or not.

Now that Coleman is out of the game, it would be nice if someone else picked them up, but that's fairly unlikely.

If some other company did decide to produce them, it wouldn't be hard. That canister is used for spray cans of various types all the time. The only thing different on it is the connector and the fact that the Lindal valve is a female Lindal valve whereas most spray cans have a male Lindal valve. Well, that and the fact that there's a weighted dip tube. But the canister itself was not specifically developed for Coleman. Coleman just used an "off the shelf" canister.

HJ

I may do that, thanks. If you see any anywhere in LA, let me know. I will be sure to keep the canisters I have.

Ya know just today my son said dad I think I am leaving the alcohol stove at home ,and getting one like yours! I dont have this stove in question but I have The Coleman F1 Exponent! IT is typical canister stove at 2.4 OZ. I beleive. This stove works awsome for 3 season use. Anyway he said where did you get it. Hmm Dicks sporting goods 2 years ago. Guess what Coleman doesnt make this stove anymore either! Its a shame as it is a awsome 3 season stove! Simmers and boils water extreamly fast! I am glad it is a standard canister stove, but maybe I should stock up on fuel canisters? It it looks as if they are giving up on backpacking stoves , with exception of there Fyrestorme Ty expidition series is still available on there web site! Mutifuel version. Shame I love my F1 and so did my son!

I know you and your son are thinking about a longer section hike, so from my experience, I *might* not do that, depending on your situation. So here's mine, and you be the judge.

My normal rule is 5 person days or less, I take alcohol - more than that, I take canister, it's lighter... UNLESSS

I need to resupply in a small town.. at least here, I can get alcohol (heet, methyl hydrate) ANYWHERE there is a gas station. I can only get isopro canisters where there is a hiking store. Now I'm not an AT expert, but if I'm gonna have to resupply, I'm taking a nice penny or supercat alcohol stove every time.

Hunh. That's weird. I just looked at Coleman's site too. There are hardly any stoves there. Something's got to be wrong with their site. No way are they getting out of the stove business after all these years. There must be some mistake.

HJ

I doubt it is a mistake. Big companies like Coleman don't make those kinds of mistakes very often, if at all. There are no Coleman backpacking stoves at REI, Campmor, Sports Authority or Dick's, all big retailers; Sport Chalet has the current stove. I suspect Coleman is ditching their backpacking stove line entirely in the near future.

Interesting. And, Tom, you may just be right. This would fit a pattern I've seen at Coleman. They stop making stuff and then sell off existing stock.
Here's a link: Coleman Backpacking Stoves
Notice the one real BP'ing stove left: The Fyrestorm Ti. This is their top of the line stove and their most expensive. It makes sense that this would sell slowly and that these would be left over when others were gone.

This fits also with the fact that they discontinued PowerMax. They're not just picking on PowerMax; they're getting out of backpacking stoves. This might make sense since even I perceive Coleman as the "family camping" company, this depsite the fact that I have some good Coleman BP'ing stoves.

HJ

Heck fire. I carry a Coleman stove right now, the Peak II. I like it just fine. Sure, there are lighter ones out there, but at 6 oz it's featherweight compared to my first stove.

I guess I better stock up on fuel. I don't want to buy a stove right yet... I'm still trying to figure out what kind of cooking I like to do best, and it would seem that the stove should fit the cooking style.

It sure apears to me they are getting out of it. My hope is msr iocanisters fit and will still be available. Worst case senario is coleman originated the canisters and they will perish to?? I know not. I do know my litle exponent is one heck of a awsome lightweight stove! It is a shame.

I think coleman suffers, probably to a large extent unfairly, with an association with big heavy stoves.. Some of their hi-tech stuff has been pretty decent, but they probably suffer a little bit from the name to some extent.

Phat I will be taking my exponenet next trip, and my son his wood and alcohlol diy rig. We will have the market cornered. My exponenet really is very sutable to serve 2 people. I just hope canisters for it remain available?

I don't think they're getting out of the Coleman fuel business (yet). Just backpacking stoves. Even if Coleman got out of the fuel business, there's MSR, Crown, and Sunnyside, so no worries.

HJ

Threaded canisters are no problem. MSR, Brunton, Snow Peak, Coleman, Optimus, Primus, Glowmaster, and Jet Boil all have the same threads. It's the EpiGas standard 7/16 UNEF.

It doesn't make a bit of difference which brand you buy except in cold weather where you should avoid brands that contain regular butane. See What's the best gas for cold weather? for more info.

If however you're talking about PowerMax canisters, those are gone. They were discontinued last year. See PowerMax Fuel is Definitely Dead for more info.

HJ