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#159448 - 01/02/12 01:21 AM The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
In a couple of days, MSR is set to release their new MicroRocket stove.

The MicroRocket will be MSR's first entry into the lightweight, high-end gas stove market. (The existing PocketRocket is more of an entry level stove).

Yesterday, I took the stove out on the trail for the first time.


Please join me on an another Adventure in Stoving: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1

HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159454 - 01/02/12 07:58 AM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Good info on the MicroRocket in your series; I really enjoyed it. A couple of random thoughts:

I fall into the category of those who leave the worthless Pocket Rocket case behind. I always thought that, if they'd just have plugged the hole in the bottom and added some marks on the side, it would have made a functional measuring cup. Do you know if they plugged the hole on the Micro case?

You wondered whether the separate piezo was worth it, since you'd carry a lighter anyhow. You later noted that the piezo didn't have to be refilled like a lighter. Would one additional difference be that the piezo operation isn't vulnerable to cold temperatures?

Did you do any stove-and-canister-fit tests with an MSR canister, by any chance? (My local outfitter only stocks the MSR canisters, so I was curious.)

I particularly enjoy your pragmatic approach to the use of the stoves, such as cooking inside and boil-time testing. The ideas that, yes, every once in a (hopefully) great while we do have to cook in the vestibule and that a few seconds in boil times is not the critical factor in stove selection - especially for recreational hikers like me - are particularly on target. (Of course, you did become a bit geeky on justifying the weight of the piezo in terms of using it to save gas by lighting the stove with the pot in place, not that there's anything wrong with that... smile ) It really was good knowing how the stove would perform in the real world.

Thanks again.

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#159462 - 01/02/12 11:31 AM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Glenn]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Hi, Glen,

Yeah, I'm not going to bring the little case with me. If a pot made out of titanium isn't enough to protect a stove, then I don't know what is.

The little case can be used as a cup. I just tried it right now. It's pretty small though. I suppose you could use it to measure a few ounces at a time, but it doesn't seem practical to me.

That's a good point about the piezo ignitor not being vulnerable to cold weather like a butane lighter. I usually keep my lighter in my pocket (where it stays warm and therefore functional), but you make a good point. I'll mention that in my review.

I never buy the MSR 113g canisters because they are heavier per amount of gas than other canisters. Maybe I'll pick one up this afternoon just for testing purposes. The MSR 113g canisters are also a lot wider and will definitely not fit in the 550ml mug that I used. The will probably fit in a 850ml mug, but I'm guessing.

Quote:
I particularly enjoy your pragmatic approach to the use of the stoves
Thanks. That's what I'm all about.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159464 - 01/02/12 11:44 AM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I know the MSR canisters are heavier. One thing I do like about the MSR canisters is that they are wider (and shorter?), which makes them perhaps a bit more stable - and helps me rationalize that the extra weight earns its way. (The greatest human inventions have got to be fire on demand, the wheel, compound interest, and rationalization. smile )

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#159466 - 01/02/12 12:05 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Glenn]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
lol.

Yes, they are wider, and yes they are more stable. They're actually a good product. There is no better cold weather blend (there are equal blends) on the US market.

HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159472 - 01/02/12 01:23 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
My own experience with piezo lighters on stoves (mine was a Primus Micron) is that they are really wonderful as long as they work. However, mine stopped working after about 4 years. At that point they become useless weight. I always took a lighter and a few matches (the REI emergency kind) anyway.

My current stove is a Primus Micron Ti (2.4 oz.). I really didn't buy it for the 1 oz. weight saving over the other one (older Primus Micron) but because when going out with my son's family (6 of us), we really need 2 stoves--and the Ti model was on sale. The Micron Ti works really well and I'm very satisfied with it.

I agree about the MSR fuel canisters!


Edited by OregonMouse (01/02/12 01:23 PM)
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#159494 - 01/02/12 07:13 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Samoset Offline
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Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 429
Loc: Newnan ,GA
Well done !!

+ 1 for the msr canisters
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Some peopole live life day by day. Try step by step.

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#159502 - 01/02/12 09:28 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Samoset]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
I didn't get a chance to pick up any MSR canisters today.

In terms of stability, there are little plastic canister stands out there that do help. On today's hike, I didn't bring a stand and just used one of the little narrow Snow Peak 110g canisters. I melted snow in a 1000ml Snow Peak pot. It was fine.

But I will get an MSR canister if I get a chance. You've gotten me curious.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159514 - 01/03/12 03:23 AM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
I did get out on the trail today.


And I did some more testing.


Full report to follow.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159526 - 01/03/12 10:03 AM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
How cold was it on your hike? Does the MicroRocket perform any better/differently than the Pocket Rocket in temperatures below 30F? (No need to answer this if you're going to cover it in the report.)

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#159547 - 01/03/12 02:47 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I was happy to see that MSR has taken seriously the design flaw of too close of pot clearance. goodjob This causes premature cooling of the flame and the carbon monoxide from the first stage of combustioon will be less inclined to pick up another oxygen to make carbon dioxide.

However I have noted in the past that even an empty, or jammed BIC lighter will still spark adequately to light a compressed gas stove.

BUT saying that the piezo is so much faster than flicking my BIC that it saves fuel is really stretching it.

You want real world testing? Go outside in a snowstorm and test your stoves, or maybe a cold windy day with the sprinklers turned on. Most all stove/pan/windscreen testing is done in really nice weather. I've seen cold windy winter weather where if you didn't dig a small snow cave for your stove and pot, you didn't cook. It can take as much as ten times longer to heat water in cold and wind, especially with an inadequate heat source. THE LARGER THE HEAT OUTPUT, THE LESS FUEL IS WASTED TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

By the way, as the fuel in a cannister is consmed the volume of gas above the liquid increases. The vaporising gas from the liquid enters this space and has to bounce around until it finds the output of the bottle. This essentially lowers the effective gas pressure and this is why you always have use a fresh full fuel cannister to take data.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#159553 - 01/03/12 03:42 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Glenn]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By Glenn
How cold was it on your hike? Does the MicroRocket perform any better/differently than the Pocket Rocket in temperatures below 30F? (No need to answer this if you're going to cover it in the report.)
Glenn, I didn't bring a thermometer, but I the snow was dry and had that particular crunch that snow makes when it is below freezing. My trekking poles made that odd sound that they make when hitting frozen ground. It's not the sound of hitting a rock, but it's not the sound of hitting unfrozen ground either.

In other words, it was pretty cold, but I'm not sure how cold. It did warm up by the time I summited, but it was still pretty cold. There was no evidence of melting snow on the summit (slushy snow, liquid water, etc.).

Generally with gas stoves, the brand of gas you buy has more to do with cold weather performance than the brand of stove. Basically, for cold weather, you want to avoid "plain" butane and only buy brands that have isobutane.

I didn't do the kind of testing that might reveal cold weather performance differences between the two stoves, but I have a fairly broad range of experience with stoves. I'd say that you're not going to get any cold weather performance differences between the two.

You might get some cold weather performance difference with a regulator valved stove with a larger than average jet aperture in the lower end of the operating temperature range for a particular gas blend, but to my knowledge the MicroRocket is a needle valved stove not a regulator valved stove.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159554 - 01/03/12 03:51 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Jimshaw]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
I was happy to see that MSR has taken seriously the design flaw of too close of pot clearance. goodjob This causes premature cooling of the flame and the carbon monoxide from the first stage of combustioon will be less inclined to pick up another oxygen to make carbon dioxide.
Yep.

Originally Posted By Jimshaw
However I have noted in the past that even an empty, or jammed BIC lighter will still spark adequately to light a compressed gas stove.
Yep.

Originally Posted By Jimshaw
BUT saying that the piezo is so much faster than flicking my BIC that it saves fuel is really stretching it.
That's not quite what I'm saying. I'm saying with a piezo, you can start with the pot in place. You can't with a conventional Bic type lighter. You will definitely save some gas by starting ignition with the pot in place. Will this savings be meaningful in any practical way? Probably not, but I can't say for sure. Depends a lot on the style of the person. But probably not.

Originally Posted By Jimshaw
You want real world testing? Go outside in a snowstorm and test your stoves, or maybe a cold windy day with the sprinklers turned on. Most all stove/pan/windscreen testing is done in really nice weather. I've seen cold windy winter weather where if you didn't dig a small snow cave for your stove and pot, you didn't cook. It can take as much as ten times longer to heat water in cold and wind, especially with an inadequate heat source. THE LARGER THE HEAT OUTPUT, THE LESS FUEL IS WASTED TO THE ENVIRONMENT.
Absolutely true. A stove that might be very efficient in fair weather can be useless in foul. Would that I could command the weather to precise specifications for testing, but I cannot. I would have liked to have climbed higher yesterday to test the piezo at greater altitude, but I ran out of mountain and didn't have time to do another. 8038' and cold but (relatively) calm will have to suffice.

Originally Posted By Jimshaw
By the way, as the fuel in a cannister is consmed the volume of gas above the liquid increases. The vaporising gas from the liquid enters this space and has to bounce around until it finds the output of the bottle. This essentially lowers the effective gas pressure and this is why you always have use a fresh full fuel cannister to take data.
Jim
Which is one reason why you won't see my trying to publish precise figures for boil times, heating efficiency, etc.

My blog is just a hobby, and I'm already spending too much time on it as it is. If this were my living, that'd be different, but this is just for fun.

I do hope I am able to convey the sense of the stove even though the time I can allocate is limited.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159557 - 01/03/12 03:58 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
That was plenty good enough information - I never really put a lot of stock in boil tests; there are just too many variables in the real-world field use of a stove (including the operator's mood: sometimes I'm too busy chatting to remember to fill the pot before I light the stove!) The anecdotal data is plenty good enough for my needs.

I was just mostly curious as to whether the Micro had any innovative changes (like the Jetboil Sol claims) that would affect cold-weather performance, assuming an isobutane canister that had been kept in a pocket or otherwise "warmed" before using. Since I only have easy access to the MSR fuel, I end up automatically using isobutane.

Thanks.


Edited by Glenn (01/03/12 04:02 PM)

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#159561 - 01/03/12 05:56 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Glenn]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Well, folks, guess who's the first to have the MicroRocket on their website (that I've seen). Some website called BackCountryGear. Golly, gee, anybody ever heard of them? wink

The MSR MicroRocket at BackCountryGear.com

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159563 - 01/03/12 07:21 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I would say that if you are going into the kind of situation where the canister stove might be borderline, it is time to fall back on a liquid stove alternative. That has always worked for me.

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#159566 - 01/03/12 07:56 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: oldranger]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Fully agree. There are cold-weather trips where I'd trust nothing else. (I recently wrote about a "busted" trip to Grayson Highlands. When I found out everyone else was taking a canister stove, I took my Simmerlite just so we'd have one white gas stove.)

However, most of my cold-weather trips are intentionally limited to a nearby park where, even though I can put together a trip of 30 miles if I want, I usually do only 10 miles (one night) or 15 miles (two nights), and I'm never further than 2 or 3 miles from a bail-out point. For those trips, I enjoy being able to push the limits of my canister stove - just for fun.

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#159569 - 01/03/12 08:18 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Hikin Jim]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
They even beat the manufacturer: MSR doesn't have it on the product catalog on their own website yet. smile

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#159573 - 01/03/12 10:35 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Glenn]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
This is all very cool, but I think the real question is when do PocketRockets start going on sale for $10-$15? Perfect might be the enemy of good enough.

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#159575 - 01/03/12 11:41 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Steadman]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
No, it will be the other way around. Prices for the classic original Pocket Rocket will appreciate considerably. All I can say is I have used my PR as my main stove ever since it came out something like ten years ago. It has never given me the slightest trouble. All it does is light and cook my food, especially the nice cup of tea. On the other hand, I not tried it in really cold temperatures. Color me satisfied.

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#159576 - 01/04/12 12:23 AM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Glenn]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By Glenn
They even beat the manufacturer: MSR doesn't have it on the product catalog on their own website yet. smile
lol. Got to love that.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#159623 - 01/04/12 06:17 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: oldranger]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I agree with the Ranger:
Liquid stoves are much better anywhere near freezing. My Coleman xtreme is compressed and liquid fuel, like a few others. The liquid feed into a preheat tube in the stove means that liquid gas flows from the fuel bottle, not GAS. GAS has to gasify inside the fuel bottle and find its way out, thus the propane in a fuel bottle, which has a boiling point of -40, will have enough pressure to force a mixture of liquids out of it as long as the fuel bottle is above -40. Sometimes the feed intake inside tese fuel bottles freezes and twists, so pushing the bottle vertically down into the snow keeps the fuel feed down in the liquid fuel, and the snow provides both insulation from the outside AND HEAT!!! The snow is warm enough to keep the compressed gas above minus 40.

Other than that white gas is the way to go in the winter, with a compressed gas feed. White gas doesn't ignite easily in cold wind. I prefer an old MSR XGK for the task of expedition snow melting. Its a work horse than can crank out a huge amount of heat.

Hikin Jim Thanks for the info - I like the stove. [psst - I've never admitted to being a stove collector keep it quiet] I just have too many stoves all ready.

Perhaps my favorite summer stove is primus very similar to your micro stove, permanently mounted in the bottom half of a 1.5 liter SS pan with three large holes in it. The "fire pan" concept is extremely effieicnt, and since all but the top of the pan is litterally enshrouded in flame, it is immune to any ambient weather.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#159638 - 01/04/12 10:34 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: oldranger]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Virginia
oldranger

Why? confused Is it because the PR is proven gear?


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#159646 - 01/05/12 03:46 AM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: Steadman]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I suspect that the PR will become a classic. Seriously, as to value, who knows? But stranger things have happened. Look at Mickey Mouse watches.....

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#159691 - 01/05/12 04:31 PM Re: The New MSR MicroRocket -- Trail Report #1 [Re: oldranger]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By oldranger
I suspect that the PR will become a classic. Seriously, as to value, who knows? But stranger things have happened. Look at Mickey Mouse watches.....
Don't count out the PR just yet. The PR will be MSR's "basic" stove: a cheaper but still effective stove. The MR will be MSR's "advanced" stove. Clearly nicer, lighter, more compact, more stable, better flame control, more convenient etc.

There will always be those people who want the nice features of the better stove. There will always be people willing to put up with the PR's "warts" to save a few bucks.

I have to say, I really like how I can fit both a gas canister and a MR into some fairly small pots. Can't do that with a PR.

HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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