Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 
Backcountry Gear Clearance and Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#120078 - 08/30/09 01:06 PM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: Dryer]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
All collies are dogs but not all dogs are collies. We'll have to agree to disagree on the word usage of "sodium hypochlorite." grin

The takeaway from below is; 1)ClO2 is more effective than chlorine and its 'bleach' version, 2)while new to backpackers, ClO2 is time tested and, 3) the same can be said for UV treatment.

The water that emanates from water utilities is used/approved for irrigation, human consumption, dumping into surface waters or a combination of all three. Different standards/regulations are involved for the different uses. Municipal water providers generally use a multi-step process which includes sedimentation, biologic breakdown of the waste, filtration and chemical treatment. UV treatment is also being added.

As for municipal utilities trending to the use of chlorine dioxide:

U.S. municipal water systems started using chlorine dioxide in the mid-40’s (Treatment of Drinking Water with Chlorine Dioxide, www.oxy.com). The start time in Europe was about the same. But ClO2 is not without its own problems to include cost, handling safety, and by-products. Still, because of chlorine’s more troublesome human health issues and the subsequent changes in water quality regulations/standards, utilities have turned to ClO2 (ibid). “It is recognized as a superior water disinfectant alternative to chlorine and has become increasingly popular as a water purification treatment. Chlorine is being phased out due to growing concerns over its carcinogenic by-products, principally trihalomethanes (THMs)…In the U.S., the Safe Drinking Water Act and its subsequent amendments over the last 20 years have required dramatic improvments in the quality of municipal drinking water. These stringent new requirements have increased the use of chlorine dioxide in the U.S. while decreasing the use of chlorine as a water treatment chemical.” (Chlorine Dioxide – Water Treatment Technical Report: Chlorine Dioxide as a Water Purification Product and Safe Water Treatment Chemical, www.pristinewatertreatment.com/technical-info.html). More than 15 years ago, the trend was well established, “Approximately 700 to 900 public water systems use chlorine dioxide to treat potable water (Hoehn, 1992).” (EPA Guidance Manual, April 1999 Alternative Disinfectants and Oxidants, www.epa.gov/OGWD/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt 4.pdf) That trend continues despite the moribund character of utilities. Here in Missoula County, our less-than-stellar (and often, less-than-compliant) wastewater treatment plant has, I think , adopted ClO2 treatment. I know that was the plan which also included the addition of UV treatment and that addition has been accomplished. Virtually all the sources here and others I saw specified giardia when referring to the higher effectiveness of ClO2.

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

Top
#120091 - 08/30/09 09:02 PM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: Dryer]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2801
Loc: NorCal
So far I've only found a U.S. reference to Niagara Falls, New York as using ClO2 municipal treatment. I presume there are others but it's clear that it hasn't been widely adopted. In California, several very large systems have switched to chloramine, which is much more stable and persistent in the distribution system than chlorine, but presents its own set of problem byproducts, plus it's quite toxic to aquatic life. And it's green.

Cheers,

Rick
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#120100 - 08/31/09 09:47 AM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: Dryer]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
My municipal water is safe after sand filtering. The chlorine is added to keep it potable in the tranmission system. Water in the system, especially fire hydrants, can get stagnant
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

Top
#151892 - 06/25/11 09:49 PM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: mantashrimpman]
mantashrimpman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 4
Loc: honolulu
haha ok guys so the consensus for me not to contract leptospirosis on my next backpacking trip would be to chemically treat the water? kalalau valley in kauai is known for having problems with lepto and i was looking for a way to filter without having to make the water taste bad with chemicals. But if there is no other way, drinking water that doesn't taste spectacular is still better than getting flu like symptoms 11.2 miles away from my car.

Top
#151959 - 06/27/11 01:54 PM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: mantashrimpman]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
From http://www.leptospirosis.org/topic.php?t=15

Boiling water
The bacteria (and almost all other pathogens likely to be found in rivers and lakes) are killed by boiling the water for a few minutes - so this works best on small volumes that you wanted hot to begin with. Boiling is the first choice for camping trips and also means that food cooked at or above boiling point (such as meat) will also be rendered safe in the process. It of course needs a power source, but it doesn't involve chemcials so is acceptable to people wanting the least impact on their diet. Boiling is not an option for a general household water supply, but of course makes boiling water for hot drinks safe.

Iodine tablets
Water purification tablets that use iodine are very effective too, and don't need a heat source, but can leave a taste that some people find unpleasant. They are however easy to use and light to carry, so are ideal for long hikes and expeditions to remote areas. It's not an option for large volumes or a household supply.

UV sterilisers
These are also very effective against leptospira (and most other pathogens), and can be bought on all scales. Permanent systems for processing flowing water in a domestic house are available, but can be expensive and use electricity. Portable devices for camping and backpacking are also available, resembling a small flashlight or pen, and these can be used to sterilise a single cup of water - but need batteries. The advantage of using UV is that there are no chemicals involved, and the electricity required is less than for boiling the same volume. It does require the sample to be transparent though, so can't be used on things like milk.

Chlorination
Water not used for drinking - such as swimming pools and ornamental features, can be protected by adding dissolved chlorine. In commercial pools this is a complex engineering process, but for private pools it's usually added in the form of tablets. It's important to keep the chlorine levels high enough to be effective but not too high, so testing kits (using color-changing paper) are available. Leptospirosis is killed by the concentrations of chlorine used in commercial pools and most private ones, assuming the owner follows the instructions on the packet!

Filtration - does not work!
Leptospira are incredibly small - they can pass through the pores in water filters, even those that claim to remove bacteria. They will pass easily through filters with a pore size of more than 0.2 micron, including membrane and charcoal types. High-pressure laboratory filters with a pore size of less than 0.1 micron will block them, but the typical hand-held water filters used by hikers, pool filters and the fitted cannisters used in some domestic kitchen applicanes are useless at removing leptospires - they are often used to separate leptospires from other bacteria when preparing samples for research, as the leptospires pass through but other bacteria don't!

Top
#151967 - 06/27/11 03:17 PM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: Heather-ak]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6370
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Originally Posted By Heather-ak
From http://www.leptospirosis.org/topic.php?t=15

Iodine tablets
Water purification tablets that use iodine are very effective too, and don't need a heat source, but can leave a taste that some people find unpleasant. They are however easy to use and light to carry, so are ideal for long hikes and expeditions to remote areas. It's not an option for large volumes or a household supply.


OK, time for my periodic rant about iodine. My own experience is that after a month of use (only on weekends) I developed an all-over rash consisting of deep lesions (lichen planus) that left permanent scars. To this day I still cannot eat anything with even trace amounts of iodine. That means no seafood, no food prepared with iodized salt (which means most restaurants and most food prepared in peoples' homes are out), nothing with added iodine. Until very recently, it meant I could never have an angiogram (there are now alternatives available).

I found that this allergy or sensitization or whatever you want to call to iodine it is not at all uncommon. I wouldn't wish this condition on my worst enemy!

Per the Centers for Disease Control:
Quote:
Iodine has physiologic activity (it is used by the thyroid), so WHO recommends limiting iodine water disinfection to a few weeks of emergency use. It is not recommended in persons with unstable thyroid disease, known iodine allergy, or pregnancy (because of the potential effect on the fetal thyroid).


More from the CDC (same article as above):
Quote:
some common waterborne parasites such as Cryptosporidium, are poorly inactivated by halogen [iodine and chlorine bleach/sodium hypochlorite] disinfection, even at practical extended contact times.


I strongly recommend never using iodine! Chlorine dioxide tablets are much safer, kill all bacteria and viruses, and kill protozoans given sufficient contact time. Used in conjunction with a filter of 1.0 microns or smaller, chlorine dioxide plus flitration is by far the safest method other than boiling.

IMHO, any source that recommends using iodine for water disinfection and doesn't even mention chlorine dioxide is very poorly informed.


Edited by OregonMouse (06/27/11 03:23 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#151972 - 06/27/11 04:02 PM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: OregonMouse]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2801
Loc: NorCal
Can't stand the stuff (iodine) myself--smells like an emergency room, not something I want to drink.

For peace of mind, i'll recommend either UV or one of these:

Sawyer 0.02 µm filter

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#158382 - 12/07/11 03:17 AM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: Rick_D]
mantashrimpman Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 4
Loc: honolulu
what about the msr miox? will this purifier be effective against the leptospirosis virus?

Top
#158385 - 12/07/11 08:52 AM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: mantashrimpman]
Paulo Offline
member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 158
Loc: Normally Pacific Northwest
Sawyer does a virus filter!
_________________________
Without a doubt, the hardest thing of all in a survival situation is to cook without the benefit of seasonings and flavourings. - Ray Mears

http://theoutdooradventure.net

Top
#158419 - 12/07/11 07:43 PM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: mantashrimpman]
CamperMom Online   content
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1186
Loc: Eastern MA, USA
I hadn't even heard of leptospirosis and just did a quick read. It is present in animal populations, infecting small numbers at a time. It seems to more common in tropical areas, but with the modern world's convergent paths, it has spread. There have now been human cases reported in Massachusetts. Oh, happy days!

As I said, I just did a quick read. Leptospires are spirochetes, not a viruses, in case anyone really cares. I think in my 40+ year old textbooks, they may have been written up as not bacteria, Maybe because of the flagella, like protozoans have. I see they are classified as a spiral bacteria. Besides Leptospirosis, spirochetes are responsible for Lyme disease and Syphillus. Yea!

I think I am going to continue to treat water collected along the trail...

CM

Top
#158440 - 12/08/11 10:55 AM Re: leptospirosis filter [Re: mantashrimpman]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 510
Loc: Virginia
mantashrimpman

Oh, that sounds like a great trip. When I move home again, I want to do that hike.

Everything proposed will work to keep leptospirosis out of your drinking water.

- A backpacking filter will work.

- Chemicals (bleach, chlorine dioxide tablets, and iodine) will work if you follow the directions and mind the amount of exposure time of the chemicals to the water.

- Boiling your water will work.

- A UV purifier will work.

If you really want to be cautious, combining two methods (filtering and then using chemicals is the most common combination) will work but you will have to carry more stuff.

Leptospirosis is a problem in all fresh water in Hawaii. If you ever went swimming at the swimming hole off the Dupont trail in Tantalus, or jumped off of Mauanawili Falls, you risked exposure. The good news is that you live in Hawaii, and the docs know what leptospirois symptoms look like.

Aloha

Steadman

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Bivvy Sack combo Arrangement
by Jim M
Today at 01:58 AM
what is the lightest framed backpack around 40L
by toddfw2003
10/16/17 07:23 PM
a worthy challenger to the msr pocket rocket2
by the-gr8t-waldo
10/16/17 01:28 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Napa Fires
by balzaccom
10/11/17 07:43 PM
Backpacking the Ouachita Trail thanksgiving
by toddfw2003
10/05/17 11:54 PM
Rockfalll on El Capitan in Yosemite
by balzaccom
09/28/17 09:47 AM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
alcohol stove comparisons
by Bike_packer
10/03/17 08:56 PM
Can footprint plasticizer harm tent ground-sheet?
by Weston1000
09/10/17 02:24 AM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
1 registered (), 25 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Weve, Tones21, Pasquale, Rahultravel, Tated
12422 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com