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#157710 - 11/21/11 05:49 PM Carrying water in the desert
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
How do you carry water on a dry desert backpack trip?


On my latest trip, I used 3, 2-liter platypus' and 2 one liter containers for 8 liters. Trying to keep the weight down to just water weight so my total container weight was 4.6 oz, or a little over 0.6 oz per liter.

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#157712 - 11/21/11 06:01 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I also use the 2 liter platys. Wonderful because they collapse as the water is consumed. Just about as light, and much cheaper, but bulky, are recycled pop bottles - best ones are 2 L and up. One of the very best, although I haven't seen them in stores lately, is a squarish one gallon Gatorade bottle. In the past we used rinsed Clorox bottles. They were useful because they had a comfortable handle. On several Grand Canyon hikes, we would carry full bottles in our hands down the trail a bit, then stashing them for the return trip.

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#157716 - 11/21/11 06:22 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I generally use the two liter pop bottles. They are as light as are the Platy's and a lot sturdier and cheaper. I just cut them up as they are emptied to reduce volume unless, of course, I will need the container again. You can also find one gallon, square containers of, I think, Arrowhead water in a lot of groceries. I have used these on occasion. I have had too many leaks from the collapsible containers to rely on them in the desert.
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May I walk in beauty.

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#157718 - 11/21/11 07:36 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: Pika]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
That's interesting. To me, one of the advantages of the relatively expensive Platypuses (Platypi?) is their quite secure caps. Of course, the Gatorade bottles do well in that respect as well. You can get them for about $1.50-2.00 and they come prefilled with a colorful liquid that is almost as good as plain water.

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#157721 - 11/21/11 08:09 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
RHodo Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Texas Hill Country
You've certainly got me beat. Last trip I took...

3L Soda bottle -- 76g
3L Camel Back --209g
1L Soda Bottle -- 46g ( for electrolytes)

7L Total -- 331g

I bought the CB before I knew any better and want to replace it with a Platy Hoser (109g). Hopefully Santa will oblige or I'll just keep lugging the CB along.

I plan to keep using soda bottles due to price/sturdiness.

Happy Thanksgiving all.


Edited by RHodo (11/21/11 08:10 PM)

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#157723 - 11/21/11 09:01 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: RHodo]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Its been close to 25 years since I spent a lot of time backpacking in the desert...and I really don't remember what I used at the time other than it was 1 gallon plastic jugs of some kind. I think I tried old milk jugs once (and blegh!)but they didn't work out. Some trips I would stash a 3 gallon plastic water container in a key spot just in case. So now I am sort of starting over. There is no real right or wrong in my mind, just what works for you.

I had forgotten about the 2 liter pop bottles (I don't drink soda, never really have), but those would work. My Platys have never given me problems. However, I am very careful with them...they ARE thin plastic. I will have to see how long the 2 liter Platypus bottles last. These cost me under $13 per. so if I get 7+ uses out of them I suppose it is worth it (assuming $2 for a 2-liter soda). The 1 quart gatoraid bottles do work well, and last! I use those for day hikes. Good stuff, I hope others besides you 3 post up!

Thanks, sK

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#157731 - 11/21/11 10:45 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
Wolfman Offline
member

Registered: 08/28/11
Posts: 20
I haven't hiked in the desert, but sometime I hike ridges and the like were water sources are scarce or far a way. I use my 3 liter camel Pack (I thought it was light, little did I know! :)) And I usually carry a plastic 1 liter water bottler for mixed drinks and the like. I also always carry a metal water bottle, usually somewhere around a liter also. If I go for a day hike or go exploring I will always take at least the metal container, that way if something goes wrong or I miss place my camp I will have some way to boil water. Don't forget the lighter too!! Rubbing sticks together to make fire is a VERY hard process.

Wolfman

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#157733 - 11/21/11 11:06 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
I hike mostly desert and Platypus bags are the bag of choice. I like 1.5 or 2 liters.
I replace the caps with pull valve caps off spring water bottles to guard against spillage in case I knock over an open bag.
I did puncture one once. I stumbled fell against an ocotillo plant(very thorny). Noticed my leg was getting wet and thought it was blood at first. REI replaced the bag, no questions.
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#157734 - 11/22/11 01:07 AM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
I like a mix of water containers. A 1- or 1.25 liter plastic pop bottle fits well next to my tent on one side mesh pocket of my pack, and I generally carry a 20 oz gatorade bottle on the other side. If carrying a lot of water, I make sure that these are full, so that all of my water weight isn't at the top of the pack, putting me a bit off-balance at times.

I too use a platypus as my go-to water container as I use a drinking tube. Beyond that, it's a Nalgene brand 3-or-so liter "cantene" (made for hauling/storing a lot of water). I used to use a platypus brand water carrier instead, but just never trusted the zip-top. The Nalgene is harder to pour from, but it's pretty bullet-proof when full.

At one point I bought two 1-liter platypus units in little neoprene sleeves that had belt hooks, and put one on each side of my backpack waist belt. This was intended for the dry southern part of the PCT and they seemed to work well on a couple of shakedown hikes. The idea was to carry some water weight directly on the waist belt and at a lower center of mass.

Catch was, every time I would sit down, these would unhook and I always seemed to be fiddling with them, so they pretty quickly got sent home once I started on the actual trip.

I've heard people suggest not using platypus (or the equivalent) because of all the needles and thorns in "the desert". My tentative conclusion is that these folks were carrying them externally. The only water containers I carry externally are the pop or gatorade bottle type, and I've never had a platypus leak, FWIW.
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http://postholer.com/brianle

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#157741 - 11/22/11 10:58 AM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: BrianLe]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I also have never had a Platypus leak. And they are lighter than soda bottles.
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#157746 - 11/22/11 12:44 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: OregonMouse]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
I've had Platypus bottles develop tiny leaks after they are several years old. These leaks were not a problem in terms of losing any more than a tablespoon of water, but rather they created problems by getting stuff damp inside my pack.

I have no useful experience with soda bottles in the backcountry, but I have watched them be severely abused, by hurling full bottles high into the air and letting them drop on pavement, without bursting.

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#157792 - 11/24/11 12:23 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: aimless]
bermuda ern Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Maryland
Are you all talking about this time of year? Or other, drier times? How long will those like 6-8 liters last you and at what temperature? I have not much experience hiking in desert regions and I am just curious.

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#157810 - 11/25/11 04:58 AM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: bermuda ern]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Hiking in arid regions is basically an exercise in moving from one water source to another, carrying enough water to travel the distance safely. Time of day, intensity of effort, and temperature all influence the distance that your carried water supply will support. I am a firm believer in early starts in hot conditions, and resting during the heat of the day. I have consumed six liters in an afternoon of hiking and still been dehydrated. In cooler situations, that same amount of water could last more than two days.

There are other variables that enter into the picture as well - the water content of food you are consuming, wind, clothing, relative humidity, amount of conversation, and your degree of acclimatization. One of the key phrases in hiking in hot conditions is "Ration your sweat, not your water." Do not restrict your intake, but take it easy when it is hot. The siesta is a very rational procedures when it is hot.

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#157831 - 11/25/11 11:09 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: oldranger]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I think oldranger has summed it up fairly nicely. For myself, if the temps are cool to cold, the 8 liters will last maybe three days. In summer this same amount can last me all day, maybe a little longer depending upon my exertion over the day. The thing is, if you push too hard and dehydrate yourself badly, you will be hurting. You may not even feel it all the way until the next day. Best to pace yourself.

As an aside, traveling at night can be great. However, many animals are also out on a summer desert night so you have to keep aware of your surroundings.


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#157838 - 11/26/11 10:46 AM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: oldranger]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
Hiking in arid regions is basically an exercise in moving from one water source to another, carrying enough water to travel the distance safely.


But...NEVER EVER depend on hear-say about those water sources. Where I hike, those sources are 99% dry or unusable. I like to carry a reserve that is not to be touched and is enough to get me through a night/day in the even of an emergency. If you hit that reserve, head back.
The desert nearly did a friend and I in once and it's NOT fun.
Your body temp can hit a point where all the water in the world won't help you. Lesson: Carry portable shade. I hike with an umbrella and keep a poncho shelter handy to throw over a cresote bush to keep out of the sun. Long sleeve loose, white, dress shirts and usually a pair of light weight sandals on the back of the pack as 'spare tires'. I've found a few shoe soles melted off out there and wondered how the hikers faired after blowing a shoe. Desert hiking is by far my favorite but it can bite you without warning.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#157846 - 11/26/11 02:38 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: Dryer]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Don't rely solely upon old USGS maps, either....

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#157854 - 11/26/11 06:44 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: oldranger]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
I came across some water bottles while shopping in Galena Il. My wife and I were Chrismas shopping AND i SWEAR THESE HAVE TO BE THE LIGHTEST EVER. They collapse but are only available in half liter size. If they had liter I would have bought. Here is there web site. http://vapur.us/

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#157867 - 11/27/11 10:30 AM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: Kent W]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
These are sold at museum stores...but they are very similar to the Camelback models. And they are NOT much lighter than a soda bottle--can anything BE much lighter than two ounces?

But we use the Camelback ones because the collapsible feature is really nice...
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#157873 - 11/27/11 01:28 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By skcreidc
(assuming $2 for a 2-liter soda). The 1 quart gatoraid bottles do work well, and last! I use those for day hikes.


You must like the premium pop. I buy store brand 2L for 79 cents and the bottles are just as good.

I like gatoraid bottles also, because they have a wider neck.


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#157879 - 11/27/11 02:27 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: coyotemaster]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
I know, I know. I'm replying to myself, but for some reason an old discussion came to mind and I decided to search it up and repost it. I can't see how to link to an old discussion because the url is always backpacking.net/bbs.html , so I'm just cutting & pasting enough info so others can find it if they choose.

From a discussion titled
Quote:
Re: water filter cross-over-Plastic-UV-botulism


with a nice post from a member I haven't seen for awhile, Brumfield. (what happened to Brumfield? He always seemed to add practical, useful information.)

Originally Posted By Brumfield
Xelif wrote:
"I think you'll find that almost all plastic blocks UV quite well - the SteriPen in fact depends on this in order to prevent burning you with UV light. So, the plastic bag in sunlight doesn't do anything other than warm the water and degrade the plastic a little bit faster."

Brumfield wrote:

Sorry, plastic does not block UV rays. However, plastic coated with Nanoscale titanium dioxide particles will block UV. My plastic drink bottles that I use on the trail to UV treat my water with are not coated with Nanoscale titanium dioxide particles. The SteraPen's plastic design is for strength and weight savings, not to block the UV rays. Unless, of course, the SteraPen's plastic handle area is coated with (everybody say it out loud) Nanoscale titanium dioxide particles.

I learned about the UV treatment while studying under Harry Lee Westmoreland Jr.s Living Water International. I have certification in water well drilling and multiple purification techniques of raw and contaminated water for third world country inhabitants. All part of my volunteer missionary field training that I took upon myself so I could be of use to people where ever I go. I'm a Christian, but not a flat liner, as some would mistakenly think.

Living Water International web site: http://www.water.cc

Here ya go, Xelif , here's one of many articles regarding UV treatment of water in simple plastic jugs. This particular article is taken from:

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/wsh0207/en/index4.html

"Solar treatment by combined UV and thermal effects

Treatment to control waterborne microbial contaminants by exposure to sunlight in clear vessels that allows the combined germicidal effects of both UV radiation and heat also has been developed, evaluated and put into field practice (Acra et al., 1984; Conroy et al., 1996; 1996; 1999; Joyce et al., 1996; McGuigugan et al., 1998; 1999; Sommer et al., 1997; Wegelin and Sommer, 1998; Wegelin et al., 1994). A number of different solar treatment systems have been described, but one of the technically simplest and most practical and economical is the SODIS system developed by scientists at the Swiss Federal Agency for Environmental Science and Technology (EAWAG) and its many collaborators and partners.

The SODIS system consists of three basic steps: (1) removing solids from highly turbid (>30 NTU) water by settling or filtration, if necessary, (2) placing low turbidity (<30 NTU) water in clear plastic bottles of 1-2 liter volume (usually discarded beverage bottles and preferably painted black on one side), and (3) aerating (oxygenating) the water by vigorous shaking in contact with air, and (4) exposing the filled, aerated bottles to full sunlight for about 5 hours (or longer if only part sunlight). The water is exposed to UV radiation in sunlight, primarily UV-A and it becomes heated; both effects contribute to the inactivation of waterborne microbes. The system is suitable for treating small volumes of water (<10L), especially if the water has relatively low turbidity (<30 NTU).

Clear plastic bottles are considered preferable by some workers over glass because they are lighter, less likely to break, and less costly. Bottles made of polyethylene terephthlate (PET) are preferred to those made of polyvinylchloride (PVC), other plastics and most types of glass because they are less likely to leach harmful constituents into the water. In addition, they are lightweight, relatively unbreakable, chemically stable and not likely to impart tastes and odors to the water." (end article)

Brumfield wrote:
Also from: http://www.ciwem.org/policy/policies/chlorine_disinfection_of_water_supplies.asp

6. Generally, viruses are more resistant to chlorine than bacteria.

7. Harmful organisms can be shielded by particulates, therefore chlorination should be linked to a low water turbidity standard. This may require pre-treatment (filtration) processes if source waters are turbid.
________________________________________________________________

Xelif wrote: "Finally, the dead bacteria isn't going to hurt you. Viruses with disrupted genomes won't do much either. It is a bit creepy though. Just a bit of extra protein and carbohydrates though ;-)

Brumfield wrote: I prefer good Tequila with a dead Mescal worm over dead bacteria, but... each to his own favorite drink. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Xelif wrote: Bacteria that produces persistent toxins (such as botulism) aren't likely to be in our wild drinking sources."

Brumfield wrote: Unless you live where there are zero birds... ya better look here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=botulism+in+water&btnG=Search&hl=en

And from wild life: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&a...G=Google+Search

Xelif wrote: I like my SteriPen and I use chlorine tablets as an alternative, just thought I might comment on this.

I use the BIG free SteraPen in the sky, (no batteries required) and I use chlorine dioxide too, but I can't help but wonder why quality water filter companies always mention that one of their filter's main purpose is to REMOVE chlorine? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> So I chlorinate before filtering now. Brum <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#158081 - 11/30/11 08:07 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: coyotemaster]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Actually I did a quick search on line for some kind of reference. I do not drink pop. Beer yes, pop no. But, I will have a chance to see what my wife buys for my daughters B-day party and how much it costs this Friday. And, since I am thinking about it which never normally happens, I'll save 2 or 3 of the 2-liter bottles for desert packing. Always good to have spares.

sK




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#158083 - 11/30/11 08:12 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: coyotemaster]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
It's OK to respond to yourself...I'm just not sure where you are going with the UV topic. Most plastics or resins do NOT block UV...so are you worried about excess exposure to UV when using the Steripen?

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#158089 - 11/30/11 09:52 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: coyotemaster]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
I dont care secific for presicion pop. If you look I have posted a year or two ago about the large mouth coke bottles. Lightest I have found. I to use Gatorade bottles. Cheap and lighter than my Nalgenes. Happy Trails

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#158502 - 12/08/11 10:15 PM Re: Carrying water in the desert [Re: skcreidc]
wildthing Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 984
Loc: Victoria, B.C.
Kent, I've found that a hard plastic 1l bottle at 1oz is really light. However, if you want a bigger bladder to carry in try the Cantene which will carry up to 4l and weighs 4oz. Has a large opening too which make for easier filling.
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