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#157270 - 11/12/11 01:33 PM Cheap down jacket
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Yesterday I was in Target to buy paper towels and found women's down jackets (Merona, made in China)- on sale for $40. It is like a down sweater with a hood. It seems to be well made and the label says 90% down, 10% feathers. If the label is correct-that is 900 down! The jacket (Womens med) wighs 8.5 oz, stuffed in the bag it came with. I bought a Montbell down sweater (7 oz) this summer for $120 (on sale) and honestly, the Target jacket seems similar. For the price, I was willing to take a chance. Has anyone else bought this jacket?

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#157273 - 11/12/11 02:45 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: wandering_daisy]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
There have been quite a few less expensive down jackets showing up in stores lately. Costco (children's jackets, but the XL size fits a men's medium), Land's End, several others.

Costco also has merino wool socks. I bought three pair of women's socks (made by Wigwam) for $15, a third of the price of Smartwool. They are very comfortable, although they tend to stretch a bit by the end of the day (which might be a problem if you want to wear one pair for several days without washing them). It may be they'll stop doing that after several trips through the washer and dryer. I was told that the men's socks are a bit better quality.

I just saw a post on nwhikers.net that Costco also has gaiters for $17.
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#157275 - 11/12/11 03:05 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: wandering_daisy]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
Yesterday I was in Target to buy paper towels and found women's down jackets (Merona, made in China)- on sale for $40. It is like a down sweater with a hood. It seems to be well made and the label says 90% down, 10% feathers. If the label is correct-that is 900 down!


No, that is not how down is rated. Down fill power is rated by how much volume the down takes up in a cylinder holding one ounce of down (US rating) with a fixed amount of weight on top of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_power

My guess would be that the down in this jacket would rate somewhere around 500 or so based on the cost.
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#157279 - 11/12/11 06:41 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: TomD]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By TomD
My guess would be that the down in this jacket would rate somewhere around 500 or so based on the cost.


The wiki says:

"The warmth of a down comforter depends not only on the fill power, but also on the quantity of fill."

"A comforter that uses 550 fill power down, for example, would have to use approximately 40%-50% greater weight of down than a similar item that uses 800 fill power down to provide the same loft."

Boy, that muddles up the water when you're trying to decide what to buy.

But, taking that for what it's worth, how does 550 down compare to other types of insulation? Is there anything as light or lighter, and less expensive, that performs as good or better?

And how do your rate feathers that are mixed in? Do they add loft? Or do they add warmth?

They can't do both because then they'd be better than down, and if they add neither, then they only add weight.

I found a down/feather jacket at a thrift store a couple weeks ago. It occurred to me that I might buy it and collect the down and save it. If I could find enough of them I might be able to make my own down quilt for pretty cheap. (the jacket was only $3).

But, honestly, I don't have a clue as to how down compares with other materials. What lightweight insulation besides down do backpackers use to make lightweight gear?





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#157281 - 11/12/11 07:27 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: billstephenson]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
The loft and weight of the cheap jacket is almost the same as the Montbell jacket that is a 800-down. It definitely feels like a lot better than 500-down. I do not think you can relate the price of an item to the quality of down. You pay a lot for the "brand name" of the high end gear. Only time will tell after I use it a lot. If it does not work out for a backpacking jacket, it is a fine town jacket.

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#157286 - 11/12/11 08:28 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: billstephenson]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Bill, there are a lot of different synthetics used for insulation. Ray Jardine is a big proponent of synthetic for his quilts-
http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Quilt-Kit/index.htm

There are continuous filament and chopped fiber batts that will substitute for down. Ray uses a continuous filament batt. They can be used in jackets as well. Wiggy uses something similar. Primaloft is one brand. Some jackets use Thinsulate, which is also used in boots.
http://www.primaloft.com/en/performance/products.html

Google down v. synthetic and there articles, videos, blogs, posts, the whole gamut on the Internet.
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#157295 - 11/12/11 11:06 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: billstephenson]
ETSU Pride Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 933
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Originally Posted By billstephenson



But, honestly, I don't have a clue as to how down compares with other materials. What lightweight insulation besides down do backpackers use to make lightweight gear?




My Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina feels like a down sleeping bag made by Mountain Hardwear. Their proprietary micro thermic liners are top notch in terms of warmth, compressibility, and weight.
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It is one of the blessings of wilderness life that it shows us how few things we need in order to be perfectly happy.-- Horace Kephart

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#157324 - 11/13/11 04:24 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: wandering_daisy]
MPCWatkins Offline
member

Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 40
Loc: Middle Georgia
I've noticed that outdoor style clothing has begun to bleed in to many people's main wardrobe. This coming from the increasing numbers of outdoor type jackets in retail stores(Merino-costco, Down Jacket-Target, etc.) and people wearing name brand outdoor gear for day to day(Understandably so. The stuff actually works).

My thoughts on it is this. I've often come across cheaper brands/alternatives to the gear that I buy, but I RARELY ever buy them. This is because they don't have history, they don't have credibility. I don't know if I can rely on them. While it's totally possible for my North Face(<---Insert outdoor brand name here) down jacket to start suddenly bleeding feathers, NF has some 50 odd years of gear history that proves it won't. It has reliability. It can confidently claim that my jacket is windproof to 60+ mph, and the best part is that it will be. I know it's not some advertising gimmick by a large vanilla brand trying to dip it's finger in the "outdoor gear" pot. I can count on the piece of gear to work, which is all that much more important when your life depends on it.

For some people, the Target down jacket will work great, and sometime they really are great jacket. I do believe that they have their place in the market today, but I'll pay that extra $50, $60, heck even $100 bucks for a piece of gear that is tried and true if it's coming into the backcountry with me.
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#157325 - 11/13/11 04:47 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: wandering_daisy]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I have an old (30 years) REI down jacket that I bought on sale then. Its 550 down and has a hood. Its very warm and is still my standard winter parka unless I expect real cold, its a bit thicker than a TNF Nuptse. It cost $60 then and has given me 30 years of service, BUT I always had the correct shell to pull on over it in case of precipitation. You do not need a $500 coat to be warm, they're just nice. You also do not need a $500 shell, especially if its below freezing. Try a wool sweater under that cheap down jacket and you'll be toast warm.
Jim smile
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#157344 - 11/13/11 08:46 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: Jimshaw]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
Daisy , you may have found a deal? Personally I watch Cabelas Bargain Cave in March and April. I bought a nice 600 down fill jacket reg 90.00 for 25.oo I also bought three 600 fill down vest last spring for 20.00 a piece! I Have also had good luck on Steep and cheap, but requires allot of checking and patience. I too love the higher end gear but have to get buy with what I can afford. As time mand money permits I continue to upgrade! I guess I should mention I bought three vest one for me and the other two for my sons. All Cabelas brand gear is lifetime warrenty no questions asked! No I do not work for nor am a I afiliated with Cabelas

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#157355 - 11/13/11 09:36 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: Jimshaw]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
What??? I really didn't need that $500 parka I took to Yosemite with you? Now you tell me. grin

Seriously, I love that thing, even if I only wear it a few days a year. Now, did I pay $500 for it? H, No! Got it for about half that on eBay. The lesson here is that lightly used high end gear and clothes can be found on eBay and Craigslist fairly regularly. People buy stuff for that once in a lifetime trip to Denali and after it sits in the closet for a while, away it goes.

Sometimes cheap stuff is a bargain. I have a 25 year old no name (literally) day pack I got for free. I use it almost every day and it's still in great shape. I have a Columbia fleece jacket that is about 15 years old and I've worn it at least 3 times a week for all kinds of things from running to the store, to skiing and camping. It still looks almost new.

I agree that price isn't always an indicator of quality. A friend of mine bought a stylish winter jacket and it won't even keep her warm here in LA. Serves her right.
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#157377 - 11/14/11 09:47 AM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: TomD]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I have a Ray Jardine quilt that is supposed to be rated roughly the same as two of my down quilts (Jacks R Better). It is not as warm and is twice as bulky. It compresses to about basketball sized where the down quilts get down to cantalope size. The synthetic is probably 6 oz heavier. 800 fp down wins....

There is also quite a noticeable difference between 800 and 600 fp down, when you look at two jackets compressed side by side. I have a Marmot jacket that almost fits into one of its own pockets.
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#157378 - 11/14/11 09:49 AM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: TomD]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada


Price is more often an indicator of style. my more expensive outdoor garments were purchased because the wife was going somewhere with me.

My usual assortment of what was cheap and effective didn't meet with her sense of style, so I own a very nice burgundy coloured lighteweight shell, and grey schoeller pants. She would not be seen with me in my lime green nikwaxed windshirt and blue nylon rad pants, and she detests is when I go peter pan style (long johns and shorts.)
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#157383 - 11/14/11 10:42 AM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: phat]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By phat


Price is more often an indicator of style. my more expensive outdoor garments were purchased because the wife was going somewhere with me.

My usual assortment of what was cheap and effective didn't meet with her sense of style, so I own a very nice burgundy coloured lighteweight shell, and grey schoeller pants. She would not be seen with me in my lime green nikwaxed windshirt and blue nylon rad pants, and she detests is when I go peter pan style (long johns and shorts.)


I can't do the peter pan style, but my wife hates it when I wear socks with sandals. wink
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#157436 - 11/14/11 09:02 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: phat]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Peter Pan worked for me in NZ where the weather was cold and damp. I wore Capilene under my surf shorts. A pair of these-

https://www.birdwellbeachbritches.com/Home.html
except mine were blue.

Never heard the term until a while back here. Heard it first from BearPaw, if I remember right.


Edited by TomD (11/14/11 09:13 PM)
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#170689 - 10/17/12 09:56 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: wandering_daisy]
jbylake Offline
member

Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 202
Loc: Northern KY USA
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
.... Only time will tell after I use it a lot. If it does not work out for a backpacking jacket, it is a fine town jacket.

There you go...and let us know how it works in the cold..when you get a chance.

J.

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#170692 - 10/17/12 11:02 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: jbylake]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
2012 update: This year Costco has nice-looking men's down jackets for $70. It has a very detailed and technical label (unusual for inexpensive stuff). I didn't write it down, but as I recall it has 850 or 900 fill. I don't know the total weight of the jacket. These are not stand-alone-to-wear-below-zero type jackets but look like excellent layering pieces. Definitely heavier than my Montbell UL Down Inner jacket, but undoubtedly also warmer.

I was in there with my DIL (I'm not a member, but with a family of 5 she is a member and shops there a lot) looking for a dog bed for Hysson (their dog beds outlast Petco's by three years!), so I noticed the jackets only when passing.


Edited by OregonMouse (10/17/12 11:03 PM)
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#170698 - 10/18/12 12:45 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: OregonMouse]
Dave H Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 57
Loc: Charlotte, NC
I purchased a boys XL coat for my 13 yr old son at Costco last year for $35~$40 I don't remember the exact price. It is comparable to a mens small. I was very impressed with the quality of it. I was hoping to get a Mens this year for me until I picked up a Mountain Hardware down jacket at REI outlet for $50. Last year our Costco only had the down jackets in childrens. This year I see them in both Mens and Womens. The womens seem to be more in line price wise with the kids sizes. Even at $70 I don't think you can go wrong. The quality is suprisingly high, and Costco has a generous return policy.

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#170701 - 10/18/12 04:56 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: Dave H]
rionada Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 493
Loc: Hervey Bay, QLD Australia
I also bought Costco down jackets for my boys. I added an elastic hem tightener to keep drafts out. Even with that - the boys large weighs 11.2 oz. and cost $32. It's fairly warm and has a hood.


Edited by rionada (10/18/12 05:05 PM)
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#170728 - 10/19/12 10:52 AM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: rionada]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Not really in the CHEAP zone, but I got an email that Golite is having a 50% off sale on their jackets.

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#170736 - 10/19/12 03:57 PM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: skcreidc]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
50% off what? Since they went to their new no-retail-presence marketing, they are setting a "retail" price that seems artificially high and then advertising a big percentage cut (usually 50% or close to it). Of course with no retail markup needed, they can cut their prices that much and still make a good profit. That's fine, but why not be honest about it up front instead of only in the fine print?
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#170743 - 10/20/12 03:10 AM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: skcreidc]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Go-Lite makes nice stuff. I have a pair of synthetic pants I got online a few years ago when they were phasing out that particular model-they are full zip and really warm and if I remember right, weren't all that expensive, so at half off, whatever they have is likely a pretty good bargain even if the retail price seems a bit much. Priced Patagonia lately? Half off there is still pretty expensive. However, their Capilene stuff lasts forever if you take care of it.


Edited by TomD (10/20/12 03:14 AM)
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#170745 - 10/20/12 08:59 AM Re: Cheap down jacket [Re: OregonMouse]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Wasn't intending to hijack the thread with the GoLite stuff. Just wanted to return the favor; Rick D posted up a sale 1 year ago and the Bitterroot 850 down jacket was on my short list of jackets. I picked one up ($199 instead of $399) and have liked it so far. I figured this was of more interest to someone looking for GoLite and didn't want to start a new thread.

Chris




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