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#157446 - 11/14/11 10:45 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: lori]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
I can say that whoever first coined the saying "lightning never strikes twice in the same place" was not familiar with Mt. Thielsen in the Cascades (about 20 miles north of Crater Lake).

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#157447 - 11/14/11 10:47 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: aimless]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6372
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I have seen Mt. Thielsen only from a distance, but I understand it's called "The Lightning Rod of the Cascades."
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#157449 - 11/14/11 10:52 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: billstephenson]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
There was a death on Moro Rock - I remember reading about it.

Here is the lawsuit that resulted after someone else was injured there:
http://classweb.gmu.edu/erodger1/prls560/content/schieler.htm
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

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#157450 - 11/14/11 11:03 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: lori]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
And you wonder why rangers get gray hairs.....

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#157451 - 11/14/11 11:04 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: aimless]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
The Empire State Building has been struck many times, too.

And then there's Roy Sullivan, struck 7 times by lightning.

And NOAA has some stats by year. http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/hazstats.shtml

They do split out into categories like camping, ball fields, etc. But "outside/open areas" is a pretty unhelpful one.

NOAA's 71 year history is most interesting - lightning has killed more people per year in the 1940s, decreasing as the years go by. (this is of course a US specific chart)
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

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#157452 - 11/15/11 08:17 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: OregonMouse]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Interesting discussion. As a ham radio operator, lightning is a big part of my life! grin My grounding system here at home audibly bleeds off ground potential as thunderheads pass over. My equipment has been hit at least once. Also as a sailor and kayaker, lightning gets discussed often....get caught out on a lake and there's really nothing to do but ride it out. Hunker down all you want but you're still the tallest thing out there. I've been caught out a few times and nothing happened.
To maintain weather spotter status, I have to attend a NWS school every two years. Lightening as a subject is still in it's infancy and most of the information is theoretical. We're getting pretty good at shielding buildings and electronics from hits, but predicting "where" a strike will hit is still a black art. Potential/charge can be detected but not where or when a strike will happen. "Blue Sky Lightening", where a bolt can reach out 20 miles from a thunderhead, is amazing and common. And random.
The nature preserve I care for has a few blackened trees in it. For whatever reason, lightning likes trees....probably because they have some resistance to ground making an ionized path easier for an arc, but not very good bleed points. My house system, buildings with lightening protection, and the big local TV towers have a low impedance to ground allowing potential to bleed off, averting an arc. The TV towers still make a great light show during storms.

I guess a hiker could carry around his own lightweight Faraday cage to hide in. A well grounded tent? As a hammocker, I just pray and go back to sleep. grin

Flooding is the major killer with regard to weather.











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#157454 - 11/15/11 08:51 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: lori]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By lori
I was just reading a poster over on some BLM property (we were fishing) that claims in the past 100 years, 15,000 people have been killed by lightning. 1300 by snakes. 10,000 were killed by deer. Black bears, 63.

I'm sure there is some rounding involved in some of those numbers.... No real info on geographical area factored into those numbers either.


I dunno. those stats smells like the rounding was "made up statistics in the author's mind" probably to try to make a valid point. but it's still silly.
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#157456 - 11/15/11 09:21 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: phat]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 510
Loc: Virginia
Appropriate to this discussion in relationship to statistical risk (and not/not aimed negatively at anyone here):

[img:center]http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2011/11/14[/img]

I read it this morning, and couldn't stop laughing.

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#157459 - 11/15/11 09:49 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: phat]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By phat


I dunno. those stats smells like the rounding was "made up statistics in the author's mind" probably to try to make a valid point. but it's still silly.


I've read much higher numbers on how many people are killed by deer before. That's a fairly conservative one.

There are pages that list out all the mountain lion and bear attacks existing. There are also pages that will break down all animal/insect related deaths. The numbers are somewhat consistent....
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#157463 - 11/15/11 10:35 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: lori]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Arethere any that you would recommend? It is certainly worthwhile information.

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#157477 - 11/15/11 12:41 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: oldranger]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I was just off to collect a few... Already put up the one from NOAA. Which I hadn't had before - this is the sort of thread that leads to more information, always a good thing IMO.

Mountain lion attacks in North America: http://www.topangaonline.com/nature/lionatk.html - not updated since 2000 tho.

http://www.cougarinfo.org/attacks3.htm picks up where that one leaves off tho.

Black bear fatalities: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/science/11bears.html

Bears in general: http://jasperwildlife.com/Fatal-Bear-Attacks-in-North-America-Jasper-Wildlife.html

Lots more floating around on the internet. I stayed away from wikipedia...

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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#157478 - 11/15/11 12:45 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: lori]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By lori
There was a death on Moro Rock - I remember reading about it.

Here is the lawsuit that resulted after someone else was injured there:
http://classweb.gmu.edu/erodger1/prls560/content/schieler.htm


I do recall that there wasn't a sign there the first several times I hiked it, but I am sure one was there the last time I did. It was probably placed there as a result of that suit.

It's crazy to think that you could sue because the Park Service didn't tell you that you could get struck by lightning in a storm, and Moro Rock is about the last place I'd be wanting to hang out in a storm, or even on a windy day for that matter.

I googled some pictures of it a few minutes ago. They've got stairs and handrails all along most of that trail now. They weren't there when I was. Had that guy won that suit I'm sure they would have barred access completely. That would be even crazier, but not as crazy as putting a warning sign everywhere you have the potential to get hurt, which, in essence, is what the suit claimed should have been done.
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#157481 - 11/15/11 01:25 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: lori]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
OK I admit this is a bit OT but the mountain lion attack reports are interesting to look at. I remember the ones in Orange Co. CA vividly as many people wanted to have the cougar numbers culled again.

In Indonesia, their "cat" problems are the tiger. One spot I surfed, G-land or granjangan, is known for amazing left hand break and there has been a surf camp there since 1990 at least. When I went there in 1993, we would find big tiger prints along the beach almost every morning. The locals had learned to deal with them in part by wearing masks on the back of their heads so it looked like the person was looking backwards as they walked down a path. I think I saw this in National Geographic as well. Maybe a face on the back of a hat, or something like that, would deter some cougar attacks.

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#157622 - 11/17/11 10:48 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: Dryer]
anicinabe Offline
member

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Ohio
I am,for the most part, a solo backpacker. I must admit,in my youth, I have travelled with a devil may care attitude. I have set camp in the Catskills and ADK on the high grounds. I have stood outside in the middle of solitude and enjoyed the wonderful nature's laser shows. As wisdom comes with age, I see that I had put myself at risk. Do I regret it? No! but I evaluate the risk factors more now.

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#157637 - 11/18/11 12:23 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: anicinabe]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Well, anicinabe, I gotta admit, I share your non-regrets. smirk To this day I go outside and watch the show.
Curiosity will probably kill the cat in that respect but still, I had a good time. grin

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paul, texas KD5IVP

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#157653 - 11/18/11 07:28 PM Re: Lightning! [Re: Dryer]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
One of Earthling's friends was struck by lightening in his tent and killed. Earthling was camped a ways away and found his friend - well - dead - the next morning. Maybe thats why Eugene had a sort of live for now atitude... I hope he's ok...
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#157745 - 11/22/11 11:44 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: Jimshaw]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I didn't know that Eugene had been involved in something so tragic. Hard to imagine going through that without some serious after effects.

I sure miss him. frown
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#161448 - 01/30/12 07:06 AM Re: Lightning! [Re: lori]
alfredee Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 1
Lightning is extremely hot like a flash which can heat the air around it to temperatures five times hotter than the sunís surface.



Edited by ringtail (01/30/12 10:23 AM)

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