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#155530 - 10/07/11 08:01 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I think you will have a great time. When I was a senior in high school, I took off for a 2 nighter with some buddies. I lived in Everett, so we headed to Mt Baker NF. We had way too much clothes (and the wrong type), low tech equipment, etc. We ended up getting lost and using a day to dry out. I had a lot of fun and learned a lot.

Make sure to take lots of pics and tell us about it.
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#155532 - 10/07/11 08:30 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 501
Loc: Virginia
As a Danner boot user... for your own sake, if you are buying new, break them in. Reviews that say it takes 40 miles of walking to break them in are not joking (or, at least, my feet weren't laughing...)

Have fun. Enjoy the trip.

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#155534 - 10/07/11 08:40 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Steadman]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
yep.
i own danner quarry alloy toe and wear them 8-9hours a day. they are what made me decide if i was to ever buy outdoor/leather shoe it will be from them. these boots are more comfy than my street shoes.

i <3 danner so much and the factory store is so close, wish me luck in finding a nice pair of boot for real cheap


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 08:46 PM)

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#155539 - 10/07/11 09:40 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
anyone know a good area for just going off trails? i wana just goo and make my own trail.

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Trails-Maps-...7765&sr=1-1

smile

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#155540 - 10/07/11 10:03 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
New Updates.
Jacket
Boots
ETC.

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#155542 - 10/07/11 10:05 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1106
Loc: Colorado
Nick,

I have these Danner boots. They are one of the two top choices of soldiers going to Afghanistan and last a long time.

They are more comfortable than my light weight shoes. They are waterproof, at least until it comes over the top. I can just walk right through small streams.

They didn't need breaking in at all.
_________________________
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#155543 - 10/07/11 10:24 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
i do like those, but the ones with the vibram sole. as i would want the ability to get them resoled. as danner is local i can get it done fast and pretty cheap.

like so
http://www.amazon.com/Danner-Mens-Marine-Temperate-Military/dp/B002OSY39A/ref=pd_sbs_shoe7

but alas im looking for a shoe i can wear on the street aswell. and superhightops arent fun.


Edited by Nick K. (10/07/11 10:27 PM)

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#155544 - 10/07/11 10:35 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1106
Loc: Colorado
I got mine at clothing supply at an Army Post. I'm retired Air Force so I can go there.

Before buying boots, I talked to a lot of guys about what their best pick was for Afghanistan. One guy said he had a single pair last his entire tour (which is usually 15 months) with a 20 mile rucksack hike each day. That sounds impossible, but he wasn't the only one who said they got a lot of wear.

I found the old black combat boots to be uncomfortable around the tops with extended wear. I'm not finding that to be the case with these boots.

Your choice looks similar to mine. I would have preferred a pair that was resoleable, but they didn't have any.

Oh, they are also very good for doubletiming. Not so good for going faster than that.
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#155545 - 10/07/11 10:45 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
This has been an interesting and lively thread. Reminds me of one of my father's favorite wry sayings - "My mind is made up - don't confuse me with facts."

We all make deeply personal choices in selecting our priorities and our gear. Enjoy your trip! That is what counts in the end.

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#155547 - 10/07/11 11:58 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
38lb Dry weight now.
i guess im missing some stuff.. like snacks and such aswell.


seems like bout 45lb will be final weight.ish.

one note where whold i get a topographic map? or book? what should i use? get a map for the place im going or get a big one?


Edited by Nick K. (10/08/11 12:28 AM)

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#155548 - 10/08/11 06:41 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1106
Loc: Colorado
You are missing rain gear, too. You won't want to get cheap stuff as it rains there a lot and you will be going off the trails.

For maps, I'd suggest Topo Explorer. The online version will allow you to just download the area you need. It sounds a little expensive, but it's cheaper than buying maps.

For food, you will need about 3,000 calories a day. A Mountain House meal is about 500 calories. Figure about 1.5 pounds a day for dehydrated food, nuts, granola bars, etc. Then an additional 20% for packaging unless you repackage in smaller bags. Many carry less for weekend trips as they don't feel hungry.

When you add food and water, I think you will find you are closer to 50 pounds. Maybe more as your extra clothes will weigh more than the spec weight since you are bigger.

You are also missing little things like a tiny towel, toothpaste and a toothbrush, fuel for the stove, toilet paper if you plan to bring any, lighter fluid for the Zippo, tent stakes, bear bag, hammerfor, fleece/jacket, long john tops, trash bag.

I don't think anyone is saying carrying a 50 pound pack is impossible. But it will be uncomfortable. And it will slow you down a lot. I met a woman thru-hiking the Colorado Trail this year whose pack was in the mid-40's. But she has been hiking a long time. It did slow her down some, but she made informed choices about weight vs. things she wanted.

I think everyone here would disagree with wearing heavy boots but me. It's just come down to a preference for me. Besides, I like the way they feel.

Try not to get defensive about your choices. People have been helping me all summer. I constantly have to remind myself to not think "You're wrong" and to say "Why are they right?"

I consider everyone's choices and balance mine with money, personal preference, and waiting until I decide which particular item to buy. I know I'll get a good down bag eventually, but in my case I have to buy a second one for my son. So that's an extra $1,000 which for now is out of reach. I know I'll probably buy down fleeces eventually, but that's another $350 or so. I also use a different setup for a hammock which people disagree with. But it works for me as I sleep very warm and I'm too sour for bugs to bite me.

A lot depends on whether you want to have fun in camp or hike long distances. I'm very simplistic in camp. I don't mind just sitting on a log for a few hours and then going to sleep as soon as it gets dark.

There are a lot of experienced people here who have helped me a lot this summer. If you go back and read their old posts, you will find some have hiked the long trails, some camp in the winter, one is in search and rescue and hikes an amazing number of miles, some have hiked in the exotic foreign countries. If we had a convention and opened our packs, everyone would have something different. (Might be fun for the Colorado group.)

The common thread I see here and on the trail is keeping the pack weight down. That allows us to get the miles up. Is it just a fad? Or is it something that happens naturally? Probably some of both. In a Canadian board I lurk on, they are more into the heavier weights and emphasizing the camping experience.

In one of your posts the word "survival" caught my eye. Are you planning a bugout bag for when times get tough and planning to live in the woods? If so, reducing non-essentials is critical so you can carry more food. Trapping only works well in the survival books. When I was in survival school in the Air Force, I found bugs are a lot more plentiful and easier to catch. There is a meal under almost every rock.





Edited by Gershon (10/08/11 07:57 AM)
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#155551 - 10/08/11 10:10 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
A good map is one of he most critical pieces of gear you carry. Ideally, you will have a 24:000 scale map, or maps, covering your entire hiking route. A compass is nearly useless without a map, which is even more critical than a Big Knife.

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#155552 - 10/08/11 11:40 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1560
Loc: Napa, CA
A couple of notes on the post by Gershon:

Most freeze dried meals for two people have between 500 and 800 calories, total. If you are one person, and eat a two-man meal, that's important to remember.

And if you want free maps, check out Acmemapper.com You can print just about anything you need there, in the scale you want it, for free.

And now a word about philosophy. Some people want to prove that they can carry anything, and heft a huge pack. Some people like to fantasize about Man v. Wild and the true wilderness experience. OK fine. Some people also buy the biggest truck, the biggest house, the biggest RV.

Most people on these boards spend a lot more time in the mountains, which is why we favor light weight. If you want really play the survival game, figure what you can do without, not what you need to bring.

Those survival shows are a joke, by the way. More stupid decisions and bad ideas in one show that I have seen in a week on the trail.

Think small, think light, think smart.
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balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#155553 - 10/08/11 11:41 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: oldranger]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Go to REI and buy your map their. Look for either the USGS 1:24000 or a National Geographic of the same area. The third choice is to just buy whatever map they have of the area you are looking at. REI also has lots of different compasses to look at.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#155555 - 10/08/11 12:35 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: finallyME]
Nick K. Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 14
thanks im gona make it over to rei soon, its just all the shops are in portland and i dont drive so it will take me a min to get over there so i like looking online so i can finish everything in one trip lol but thats impossible wink

and the pro packs only have 1 serving, i realize i will need more food. having a rain proof multi layer jacket isnt enough?


and @ gershon, i could prob do a scosh less than 3000cal.
in a normal day i prob do less than 1500 and im pretty active. i would be so full all the time lol..

"You are also missing little things like a tiny towel, toothpaste and a toothbrush, fuel for the stove, toilet paper if you plan to bring any, lighter fluid for the Zippo, tent stakes, bear bag, hammerfor, fleece/jacket, long john tops, trash bag."
weight missing. im gona add those after. jacket has fleece zip out. lighterfluid is a givin. im bringing wipes, stakes come with the tent? underarmor heatgear top is longjohn fuel comes with the stove? i can do 3 days on one can?

and @ everyone about "survivaling"
i just want to go out away from people and trails, that was my meaning. i find the idea of hiking a "pathway" to be quite lame. poor choice of words on my part.


Edited by Nick K. (10/08/11 01:21 PM)

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#155562 - 10/08/11 04:26 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3832
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I've been sorting out my gear for the past couple weeks to get ready for this hiking season (starts here right about now) and last night I got most everything I'll need for a four night trip with lows in the 30šs and I'm weighing in at about 32lbs, probably add another 3lbs before I actually make it out the door.

Your pack will be weighing 45lbs. That's a lot for 3 nights. There is a big difference between carrying 45lbs and 35lbs and it gets bigger the longer you carry it. Ironically, that's how much I was carrying for three nights when I first arrived here.

This year I've taken a slightly different approach to lightening my load. It's weird, but while going through my gear and reworking my pack I've found that for me 25lbs "Feels" light when I pick it up and comfortable when pack it around. 32lbs "Feels" heavy.

So I'm working on getting a two night trip down to 25-27 lbs. I think that might be the "Sweet Spot" for me right now with the gear I have. So my first few trips out will be two nighters. After that, I'll work on extending that same load to get another night out of it.

Just for grins, check out this Rapala 4 inch fillet knife. It's fairly light (32 grams), very sharp, inexpensive, and durable. I don't think it'd be good for digging holes, but it's what I'll be carrying this year:




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"You want to go where?"



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#155574 - 10/09/11 09:48 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: billstephenson]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1106
Loc: Colorado
If I were to go to REI for a complete setup, I'd do my homework first. Otherwise you end up with what they have in stock or some things that aren't suitable for you like tents that are too short.

Using tents as an example, you can narrow the choices down to a single person tent and then sort by reviews. I've found that in sum the reviews are pretty good. If a lot of people say the tent is too short, it's likely too short.

Then I'd make a list on a spreadsheet of the tents, price, weight, reviews and comments for significant pros and cons.

When I enter my criteria for backpacks, I come up with only one choice. The Osprey Kestral 38. And it's only $139. This isn't a recommendation. I'd have to look at it first. Your choice might be the 48 liter pack.

Be sure to get an REI membership for $20 for life. It allows you to return things for life just because you don't like them, and you don't have to save the receipts. Also, you will get notified of garage sales where they sell returned items for greatly reduced prices.

Do the same type of things for everything you will take with you and you will end up with a decent setup. Then,when you go to the store, the salesperson won't have to guess at what you want. They may be able to suggest alternatives that are just as good and cheaper.

Be sure to have them show you how to set up the tent and adjust the backpack. It's important to test the tent with a sleeping bag and a "pillow" made of rolled up extra clothes to see if it's long enough. Many are made for people under 6 feet.







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#155577 - 10/09/11 02:05 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I would second getting an REI memership. Back when I joined, it was only $2, but joining REI was one of my better decision. The main advantage, s far as I am concerned is that you get about a ten per cent dividend on most of your purchases (items on sale are not eligible). The dividend can be redeemed for merchandise, or legend has it, for cash (something I have never done).

Short of the exotic cottage manufacturers, you can get just about anything you need at REI.

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#155579 - 10/09/11 04:00 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: oldranger]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6134
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
You also get a 20% off on one regular price item about 3 times per year. There is one on right now, good for the rest of this week.

However, most of my gear comes from the small "cottage" manufacturers who make truly innovative gear and sell it on the internet rather than in stores.


Edited by OregonMouse (10/09/11 04:02 PM)
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#155584 - 10/09/11 07:39 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Nick K.]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Nick K.


and at your comfort remark, comfort is all relitive. do i pack light and not be as comfortable when camping? or pack a med/heavy ruck and get a nice ballance of both?

its all a balancing act. wink


We diverge when you say "creature comforts are heavy."

I take creature comforts and never have a heavy pack. I sleep well and warm, all night, where I did not with heavier gear. 25 lbs for three days, through rain and sometimes light snow. I'm not cold, wet or at all uncomfortable - you don't get me out if it's going to be a death march.

You did ask a lightweight backpacking board if your gear was okay. In the context of the board? It's pretty heavy, and some of it has limited use, but it's an okay place to start. From my perspective, knowing what I do about comfort in the wilds, it's not really necessary. You can easily read some reviews, do a little research, shop sales, and get lighter gear that will work as well or better than the heavy stuff. The weight of the pack has a huge impact on how you feel at the end of the day - I've learned that the hard way. So have a number of first timers who show up to backpacking outings with my hiking group.

I leave you with Mark Verber's backpacking for cheap. Mark's other pages feature a lot of information and links to more information than you could possibly need or want. Some great info from a guy who went from traditionally heavy to ultralight, and then back to lightweight - balancing those creature comforts with comfort on the trail.

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http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#155586 - 10/09/11 08:04 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I second the Kestrel packs. I started with a 58, which held my summer load with some room to spare and my winter load comfortably. As I replaced a tent and a couple other things that shrunk the bulk, the 58 was way too big. Now, I can fit everything into the Kestrel 48 with room to spare, and enough room for my winter load.

Great pack - not the lightest, but a sturdy suspension, just enough features (actually, one too many: I don't use the sleeping bag compartment access), fully adjustable torso, and a very comfortable ride.

I ended up getting a 28 for dayhiking.

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#155587 - 10/09/11 08:10 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: lori]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Well said, Lori. I take what I need - cold, wet, hungry, or uncomfortable sleep are not acceptable techniques for lightening your load.

The definition of luxury and necessity can change over time. 20 years ago, a chair kit was a luxury, for the trailhead night before the hike started. Nowadays, it's a necessity - resting my back while sitting in camp lets me sleep better which means I function better on the trail the next day. It's well worth the 6 ounces I carry.

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#155594 - 10/09/11 11:06 PM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Gershon]
Steadman Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 501
Loc: Virginia
Gershon

Ok, how'd you put your gear list in there like that? I want to copy what you did so that I can toss mine up and let people look at the excell document table and not go blind.

Sincerely

Steadman


Edited by Steadman (10/09/11 11:07 PM)

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#155599 - 10/10/11 09:31 AM Re: Planning a trip. Gear List Help [Re: Steadman]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1106
Loc: Colorado
I opened Paint and Excel. Highlighted the section I wanted to copy. Hit Control C. Then went to Paint and hit Control P and saved the picture. Then I put it on a blog I have for saving pictures. You could use Flicker. Then I got the link for the picture and inserted the picture by clicking on the picture icon and pasting the link in.

If you wanted, you could just put it in Google.docs and put a link to that.
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