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#153745 - 08/16/11 12:40 PM report of food stolen on JMT
dkramalc Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: California
Someone posted this on BPL - hopefully this just an isolated incident!

I started over by going over Kearsarge and ended up just before Muir pass about 4.5 days later. I camped below the pass on the south side waiting for someone and had all my food stolen out of my bear canister. It definitely wasn't an animal because my canister was shut and "locked" and they were kind enough to leave me a snickers bar and my olive oil. I decided to walk out by going over Taboose Pass and then hitchhiking to my car. I was initially pretty upset (and hungry!) but after I got some food in my stomach and had some time to think about it, realized that I was extremely lucky to get to be in the beautiful sierras, even if only for a week.

...I was camped a little off trail near the Middle Fork Kings river, maybe 2-3 miles north of Big Pete Meadow. I wasn't camped near anyone else but I had seen a few others setting up camp around Big Pete Meadow.


I feel so sorry for the poor guy. It makes me angry that someone up there could be so inconsiderate.
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dk

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#153746 - 08/16/11 12:44 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: dkramalc]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Last year we were in Vidette and a couple of guys came up to the locker and started going through it. We confronted them. They were going from one locker to the next and said they ran out of food! They were hiking in completely inappropriate shoes, cotton t shirts, cargo shorts - their packs looked mostly empty and they had some pretty natty dreads going.

People who don't plan resupplies and steal food suck. Sounds like people plan to make other people's stuff their resupply - next year I guess I will plan to camp out of established areas near the bear lockers! Probably best way to avoid habituated bears, too.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

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#153747 - 08/16/11 12:57 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: dkramalc]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I've never had that happen to me, but in 1967 we were warned to stay away from any "hippies" camping out at Thousand Island Lake. There was supposed to be a community of them living at the lake by stealing food, clothing, and whatever else they could get there hands on. It was so wet the week we went though that it wouldn't surprise me if they had all left before we got there.

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#153750 - 08/16/11 01:14 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: dkramalc]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
That's too bad, really would upset a trip. However, it is illegal to leave caches at passes at least in Parks, many do it, I can not blame them, I may myself sometime. Going thru a bear box would qualify for a confrontation. I've been on one weekend bp trip where the guy I was with, him and his son stashed canisters at a pass for a upcoming SHR trip.

Duane

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#153751 - 08/16/11 01:33 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: hikerduane]
dkramalc Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: California
It didn't sound like it was a cache, just his bear canister that he set out at night while sleeping.
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#153753 - 08/16/11 01:54 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: dkramalc]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I am afraid this nothing all that new. Some friends had their food swiped at grand Canyon, back in the 50s, almost surely by a nearby group of boy Scouts....

Perhaps these are their descendants....

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#153760 - 08/16/11 04:01 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: dkramalc]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
My bad then.

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#153891 - 08/21/11 01:55 AM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: hikerduane]
Whiskeyguy Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 103
Loc: Northern California, USA
I was wondering how common this is. I'm going to be in Yosemite Monday on a four day hike and this is the first time using a bear canister. They say to keep it 100 yards from camp, and I'm fairly certain that's far enough away that someone could come in, spark their stove, and eat my food without me knowing any better.

Hopefully the people backpacking in Yosemite are of a better sort than you encountered.

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#153910 - 08/22/11 07:29 AM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: Whiskeyguy]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Yosemite is where I worry most. I've been told that Little Yosemite Valley is the worst - people's expensive tents occasionally get swiped while they are out hiking to half dome. That said, I've never had anyone bother my bear can... but I tend to stash it closer to camp and pile granite on it, or stuff it under manzanita.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#154590 - 09/13/11 01:31 AM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: dkramalc]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
I'm going to start putting a ziploc with some chocolate-smeared TP at the top of any food bag or canister left near high use areas.

smile

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#154591 - 09/13/11 01:38 AM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: ohiohiker]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6372
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Peanut butter is more realistic! Please be advised, though, that it will attract the varmints you don't want!
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#154592 - 09/13/11 07:45 AM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: ohiohiker]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
If it becomes a widespread problem, the solution will be real simple. Just be sure there is something made with a lot of laxative in each container.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#154603 - 09/13/11 04:40 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: Gershon]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1153
Loc: Florida panhandle
Originally Posted By Gershon
If it becomes a widespread problem, the solution will be real simple. Just be sure there is something made with a lot of laxative in each container.


I'm sure you meant that in jest, but it does give one sometihng to think about.

How bad do we want to hurt someone for stealing? Is it justified?

When one starts spiking with drugs of any kind, including laxatives or even hot sauce, one runs the risk of causing real harm. We don't know the medical history of the thief. What if the person is a genuinely hungry, unable to find work person? Would we still wish them ill? What if its just stupid kids playing games?

I have had things stolen and readily agree it's not fun. If I had reacted immediately I probably would have regretted my actions.

Of course steal or harm my dog and all bets are off.

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#154626 - 09/13/11 09:38 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: dkramalc]
OttoStover Offline
member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 62
Loc: Norway
I'm certain that it must be just one single incident and not typical for the normal hiker to steal food.
At least it is very seldom here in Norway, and I have not heard that we are exceptionally honest. In addition we have a lot of tourists from all Europe. The reason for saying this is that we have a quite unique hut system and some of the huts are even equipped with a depot of food for the hikers to use, and these huts have no staff to collect money from the tourists. You take what you want and pay when you are back home, noone controls you, it is based entirely on honour. About one third of the huts have this food supply without any ward, you see them on this map http://ut.no/kart . They are marked with a red/white square. We call them selfserviced huts.

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#154658 - 09/14/11 07:00 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: PerryMK]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I had some sunglasses and batteries stolen from my car at a canoe put-in here once, but that's the only trouble I've ever had. While camping, I've left my gear and went day hiking a lot of times and no one has ever messed with my stuff.

This last Winter I left my base camp at the bottom of a hollow one morning and hiked up the mountain on the other side of the creekbed. When I got near the top I could look back down and see my gear there, but later in the day, as the sun shifted, I couldn't see it anymore and I got kind of nervous about it and headed back early. I shouldn't have, everything was untouched when I got back.

I knew it would be, but I've done that sort of thing before and always kick myself for it when I do.

_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#154732 - 09/16/11 11:24 AM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: Gershon]
Claus Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 56
Loc: Central Iowa
Originally Posted By Gershon
If it becomes a widespread problem, the solution will be real simple. Just be sure there is something made with a lot of laxative in each container.

I hope everybody takes that as a joke. It's quite wrong.
  • You could kill someone slow and with agony if they are out in the backcountry.
  • The person might have been in dire need of food/water and you weren't around to ask for permission.
  • You might get hurt and some stranger is feeding you from your food.
  • Might be your hiking partner and now you're stuck with a sick person.
  • This is a light weight forum. Carrying useless stuff is not lightweight.

I'm sure there are many more reasons not to do things like these.
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Please feel free to disregard my opinion.
http://adventurelaus.blogspot.com

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#154774 - 09/17/11 05:09 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: Claus]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By PerryMK
How bad do we want to hurt someone for stealing? Is it justified?

When one starts spiking with drugs of any kind, including laxatives or even hot sauce, one runs the risk of causing real harm. We don't know the medical history of the thief. What if the person is a genuinely hungry, unable to find work person? Would we still wish them ill? What if its just stupid kids playing games?



Originally Posted By Claus
I hope everybody takes that as a joke. It's quite wrong.
  • You could kill someone slow and with agony if they are out in the backcountry.
  • The person might have been in dire need of food/water and you weren't around to ask for permission.
  • You might get hurt and some stranger is feeding you from your food.
  • Might be your hiking partner and now you're stuck with a sick person.
  • This is a light weight forum. Carrying useless stuff is not lightweight.

I'm sure there are many more reasons not to do things like these.


Oh, I'm gonna' pack with the consideration of a thief's medical history. NOT!
Am I supposed to feel bad for protecting my property? I don't.
I totally disagree that taking steps to secure my property and insure negative consequence for thieves is somehow wrong because they might have some unintended reaction.
Rationalizing that taking my stuff because one has some need for my stuff does not now make stealing my stuff OK. Every thief asserts a need for the stuff they are stealing.

Hot Sauce is wrong? Seriously? Might I offend a thief's palate?

Would you consider unlabeled, Peanut Butter contaminated food a wrong as it is a danger to thieves that have Peanut Butter allergies?

Stealer beware!

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#154775 - 09/17/11 07:37 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: coyotemaster]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1153
Loc: Florida panhandle
Originally Posted By coyotemaster
Hot Sauce is wrong? Seriously? Might I offend a thief's palate?


I've watched people change color from a small dose of the right hot sauce. Pour a significant amount of that on a sandwich and it will do more than offend the palate.

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#154777 - 09/17/11 08:37 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: PerryMK]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I donno...chili peppers have health benefits. You could be doing the person a favor! wink

sK

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#154792 - 09/18/11 10:14 AM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: coyotemaster]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
I am not a lawyer and I have not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, but...

There IS civil liability for setting a booby trap. A food cache is NOT a booby trap, but you add a laxative and...

There is an attractive nuisance doctrine that MIGHT protect an allergic child that found unlabled peanut butter.

Sometimes the law is not what we think it should be. Sometimes the law does not produce justice.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#154808 - 09/18/11 01:34 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: ringtail]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By ringtail
Sometimes the law is not what we think it should be. Sometimes the law does not produce justice.


Yeah, legal logic is found in a different universe.

But.... Hot sauce placed on anything in a food cache, or lunchbox, could not be considered a booby trap because it is a food. I suspect peanut butter couldn't either unless you purposely disguised it and presented it with an intent to do harm.

I would think a food cache placed on public land with a note attached identifying the owner and date of placement, if not already illegal all on its own, could never be considered an attractive nuisance. But that's just my take on the logic, I'm not from that different universe. crazy
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#154814 - 09/18/11 03:05 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: billstephenson]
PerryMK Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1153
Loc: Florida panhandle
Originally Posted By billstephenson
But.... Hot sauce placed on anything in a food cache, or lunchbox, could not be considered a booby trap because it is a food.

I suspect that something like Dave's Insanity Sauce (original, strong version) in quantities greater than what is on the tip of a toothpick could be considered a trap. Even as little as a tablespoon of it on a sandwich would be enough to cause most people real harm.

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#154819 - 09/18/11 05:50 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: PerryMK]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
My mother told a story about when she was young. She said someone had been stealing her lunch at school everyday so one morning she made a sandwich with ashes from their cookstove and put it in her lunch bag with a poem:

Ashes to ashes
Dust to dust
I hope when you eat this
that you will bust


No one sued her, and her lunches stopped being stolen wink

Originally Posted By PerryMK
Dave's Insanity Sauce...


Sounds vicious! sick I wonder if Dave has ever been accused of being an illegal weapons manufacturer. laugh

_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#154820 - 09/18/11 05:54 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: billstephenson]
Gershon Offline
member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 1109
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By billstephenson
My mother told a story about when she was young. She said someone had been stealing her lunch at school everyday so one morning she made a sandwich with ashes from their cookstove and put it in her lunch bag with a poem:

Ashes to ashes
Dust to dust
I hope when you eat this
that you will bust


No one sued her, and her lunches stopped being stolen wink

Originally Posted By PerryMK
Dave's Insanity Sauce...


Sounds vicious! sick I wonder if Dave has ever been accused of being an illegal weapons manufacturer. laugh



Rumor has it the girl who ate it went on to be a Playboy bunny.
_________________________
http://48statehike.blogspot.com/

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#154825 - 09/18/11 06:59 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: Gershon]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
lol
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



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#154826 - 09/18/11 07:43 PM Re: report of food stolen on JMT [Re: billstephenson]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Originally Posted By billstephenson
Originally Posted By ringtail
Sometimes the law is not what we think it should be. Sometimes the law does not produce justice.


Yeah, legal logic is found in a different universe.

But.... Hot sauce placed on anything in a food cache, or lunchbox, could not be considered a booby trap because it is a food. I suspect peanut butter couldn't either unless you purposely disguised it and presented it with an intent to do harm.

I would think a food cache placed on public land with a note attached identifying the owner and date of placement, if not already illegal all on its own, could never be considered an attractive nuisance. But that's just my take on the logic, I'm not from that different universe. crazy


I suspect you are right, but I am not willing to write the check to establish case law.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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