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#151072 - 06/03/11 06:14 PM Pack list
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
June 16 - 19 - backpacking trip in Cali.

My primary plan is Yosemite and my back up plan is Emigrant Wilderness (Crabtree Cabin to Wood Lake and Beyond) and tertiary plan is Henry W. Coe State Park.

Current pack list is as follows:
  • Backpack - 4lb 8oz
  • Tent - 2lb 7oz
  • tent -footprint - 0lb 6oz
  • tent poles - 10oz
  • stakes - 10 - 5oz
  • Food - 14oz
  • Snacks & coffee - 14oz
  • Stove fuel - 0lb 0oz
  • Sleeping Bag (Snowshoe) - 4lb 1oz
  • Stove - 0lb 0oz
  • Sleeping Pad - 1lb 0oz
  • Water - 0oz
  • FAK - 12oz
  • Emergency Fire mat'l - 3oz
  • GPS - 6oz
  • PLB - 11oz
  • midweight thermal bottoms, xtra socks, undies - 10oz
  • fairshare mug - 7oz
  • cozy and spoon - 2oz
  • Sweat towel - 1oz
  • Trek poles - 1lb 5oz
  • Hat - 3oz
  • compass - 3oz
  • glasses case - 2oz
  • contact stuff - 3oz
  • mosquito repellent & headnet - 2oz
  • sunblock, lotion, toothbrush / paste, lip balm and deoderant - 8oz
  • peeing stuff - 3oz
  • wool hoodie - 1lb 1oz
  • rain coat - 1lb 4oz
  • dry bag - sleeping bag - 0lb 4oz
  • head lamp - 7oz
  • knife - 2oz
  • fanny bag - 5oz
  • pillow (soft sack) - 2oz
  • micropuff jacket - 1lb 1oz
  • light stretchy gloves - 1oz
  • river crossing sandals - 14oz
  • water filter - 1lb 8oz
  • cooking pot - 9oz
  • camera - 1lb 7oz
    ---------
    30lb 4oz

AARG - and I don't even have my alchohol stove, fuel, water and bear cannister figured in yet.

I'm going to try to lighten-up my tent stuff:
tent -footprint maybe leave this at home
tent poles - testing treking poles instead.
stakes - 10- 5oz seems high to me =(

Do I need a dry bag for my sleeping bag or will a garbage sack work okay? Synthetic sleeping bag.

I thought about taking my summer weight sleeping bag until I saw the temps in the area. With temps in the 30s at night and me sleeping cold...

Suggestions?

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#151073 - 06/03/11 07:26 PM Re: Pack list [Re: Heather-ak]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
You've read that the Sierra over 6,500 feet is still under snow, right?

I will never take anything rated over 20F to the Sierra in midsummer, let alone right now when it's covered with snow, and all my hiking group's dayhikes in Yosemite are getting snowed out. (It's still snowing. It's June.)

We just bailed out of a Point Reyes hike that I should have been on this weekend - forecast is for 2 inches of rain. The last coast trip I took the forecast was "chance of thunderstorm" and we had nearly three inches of snow.

We've camped in Henry Coe in the creek bottoms, and had sub-freezing temps - woke to frost all over my hammock and backpack. That was in a less snowy/cold year...

Take it from another gurl, get a warmer bag unless you're a warm sleeper.

The good news, the snow will be fairly consolidated and easier to walk on, and the poles will help a lot.

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#151076 - 06/03/11 07:58 PM Re: Pack list [Re: lori]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
My NF Snowshoe is "rated" to 0F, which means I should be good to at least 20F I'd think?? I can't really make a case for taking my true winter bag - which is -20F and compressed is the same size as my backpack wink

Do you really think this bag isn't warm enough? If it isn't, I can see if there is a REI nearby and see if they rent.

Should I replace my midweight thermals for arctic weight? or I could bring my polar fleece puffy pants.

Sad when it is warmer up here than down there =) isn't Cali supposed to be warm year around? (I'm joking btw)

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#151081 - 06/03/11 10:01 PM Re: Pack list [Re: Heather-ak]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2757
Loc: California
What I see is that every piece of your gear is a bit on the heavy side - so it all adds up! Temperatures here will be moderate to warm in the days (mid-50's to 70's- even 80's at Henry Coe)and cool at nights in the Sierra (down to about 30), but moderate (40 degree)nights at Henry Coe. Remember that snow level is at about 6,000- 7,000 feet so those are the elevations you need to plan for. Snow is melting so it is really sloshy out there right now. Extra wool socks are needed - three pair minimum. Crocks for wading. Gaiters for the occasional snow and dewey grass. Zip-off hiking pants cover a wide range of temperatures, nothing more needed than light underware(100-wt fleece or med wt Capaline). Hiking shirt, sun hat, and one mid-wt and one heavier upper layer or vest. Fleece or wool gloves and hat, raingear. I only have one sleeping bag and it is a 10-degree bag- but would take a 30-degree bag if I had one.

It is unusually cool here right now- but once we get up to normal (and that can happen any day now) it may be downright warm! Bring a mosquito head-net- cause when it warms up the skeeters are going to hatch quickly.

You will not need polar fleece puffy pants!


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#151082 - 06/03/11 11:01 PM Re: Pack list [Re: Heather-ak]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
Delete:
[*]tent -footprint - 0lb 6oz
[*]tent poles - 10oz [trekking poles seem like a good idea, not sure how they work with your tent]
[*]fanny bag - 5oz
[*]river crossing sandals - 14oz

Non-waterproof breathable mesh footwear will dry quickly after stream crossings. If you want, remove socks before the crossing to keep things a little drier.

[*]stakes - 10 - 5oz
What kind of stakes? 8" Easton or MSR Groundhogs are good, and they weigh about 0.5 oz per stake, so 5 oz is about right for 10 stakes.

[*]Food - 14oz
[*]Snacks & coffee - 14oz
Under 2 lbs of food for a 4 day trip? I'd probably take around 3-4 lbs, and I'm not opposed to being a little hungry.

[*]FAK - 12oz
Trim to 3 oz with gauze, bandaids, basic meds

[*]Emergency Fire mat'l - 3oz
Seems like this could be trimmed down... what are you using?

[*]fairshare mug - 7oz
Use a 16 oz size Ziploc bowl without lid - 0.9 oz

[*]cozy and spoon - 2oz
Do you need the cozy for cooking? If not, delete it.
A durable Lexan spoon is around 0.3 oz

[*]sunblock, lotion, toothbrush / paste, lip balm and deoderant - 8oz
You can probably get this down to 2 oz. Repackage lotions into tiny containers, such as old eye drop/contact lens dropper bottles or specimen vials. A tiny container of baking soda weighing less than 0.5 oz works for me as toothpaste and deodorant. Test it out before the trip though. smile

[*]rain coat - 1lb 4oz
Consider a DriDucks jacket at around 5 oz--bring duct tape to patch it and don't plan on bushwhacking in it

[*]head lamp - 7oz
A 3oz or less model should be fine. Some even get by with 1-2 Photon Freedom coin cell lights.

[*]water filter - 1lb 8oz
Consider using Katadyn or AquaMira tablets. The new Sawyer Squeeze filter/bag is around 4 oz, and $50. Keep it from freezing though! In some places where I hike, I don't filter or treat water at all.

[*]cooking pot - 9oz
Are you just heating water and cooking for yourself? You probably only need something which will hold 16-24 oz, and in aluminum, that would be around 4 oz. (http://www.antigravitygear.com/antigravitygear-3-cup-aluminum-non-stick-cook-pot.html)

A Supercat stove is easy to make. Be sure to use a windscreen. I cut a windscreen from a disposable oven liner pan because plain foil seems a little light for this purpose. Stove + windscreen + 4 oz fuel bottle (old contact lens solution bottle) = 1.5 oz.

Trash compactor bags work well as dry bags, and are around 2.5 oz. Twist the tops shut until the twist folds and holds itself in place.


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#151086 - 06/03/11 11:48 PM Re: Pack list [Re: ohiohiker]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2757
Loc: California
By the way, Heather and I are going to Yosemite. Her list is for solo, just in case I run my car off a cliff in the next week (or get sick). So assuming that all goes well, I will provide and carry the bear canister and we can also share my stove. Given the wet trail conditions in Yosemite (I was there last weekend) I would still recommend wading/camp shoes. I'm taking crocks. The actual backpacking will total 2.3 days food, not 4. The 4-day period includes driving there and back from San Jose. Two nights out max. We will consolidate first aid gear. She is bringing enough clothing in case it is really cold - likely we will pare this down based on the most current weather report. I use chlorine tabs for water purification, but I never assume others would like this method- it is light but has its drawbacks. Good suggestions given so far. I may even adopt a few myself!

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#151087 - 06/04/11 12:24 AM Re: Pack list [Re: ohiohiker]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Great suggestions, and I'll be going back over this during the week. Thank you!

Yeah, not the entire time will be true backpacking, some car camping, so less food.

WD is very kindly taking me walk-about. =)

Making two alky stoves right now to give them a try.

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#151095 - 06/04/11 12:37 PM Re: Pack list [Re: Heather-ak]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
>[*]Backpack - 4lb 8oz
>[*]Tent - 2lb 7oz
>[*]tent -footprint - 0lb 6oz
>[*]tent poles - 10oz
>[*]stakes - 10 - 5oz

All of these are on the heavy side. See if you can find lighter but comfortable alternatives. of course doing so can be a bit of an investement. if you're staying low you may be able to tarp it - If you're going up to the higher alpine with less sheltered sites you'll still want something substantial for shelter. My alpine rig for shelter weighs about 2.5 pounds all
in (poles, stakes, etc.) but it's expensive and no longer made

[*]Sleeping Bag (Snowshoe) - 4lb 1oz

Still a bit on the heavy side - if you can find a good 20F or so rated down bag you'll save some weight - of course that's also a money thing

>[*]FAK - 12oz

This is pretty hefty - I'd pare that down to what you are likely to use

>[*]Emergency Fire mat'l - 3oz

I have a spare mini- bic lighter, and an ikea tea light in a ziploc with some dryer lint. it weighs about 1 oz.


>*]GPS - 6oz
>[*]PLB - 11oz

Do you need both? share? Do you need GPS if you are on established trails?

>[*]midweight thermal bottoms, xtra socks, undies - 10oz

I use lightweight thermal bottoms. How many socks? I take two pairs of liners and wool socks. One set to hike in, one set to sleep in so I can dry out (if they got wet) and care for feet at night.

>[*]fairshare mug - 7oz

find a ziploc bowl, or use your pot for this. I take only my little pot, and a tiny plastic cup

>[*]cozy and spoon - 2oz

If you have a fleece hat (toque) I use this, or a sweater, for a cozy - just make sure the outside of the ziploc is clean. use a plastic spoon.


>[*]Sweat towel - 1oz

I don't take a towel - I use a shirt if I need one.

>[*]compass - 3oz
Do you need this *and* a GPS? will you use both (either) on established trails?

>[*]glasses case - 2oz
>[*]contact stuff - 3oz

I ditch my contacts and wear glasses when hiking.

>[*]mosquito repellent & headnet - 2oz

I take about 3/4 oz of 100% DEET (REI jungle juice) even for 7 days in mosquito heck.. applied sparingly the strong stuff goes a very long way.

>[*]sunblock, lotion, toothbrush / paste, lip balm and deoderant - 8oz

I have a 1.5 oz bottle with spray sunscreen. this lasts a week or so for me. I do make sure I have a sun hat and mostly depend on clothing rather than sunscreen. I do take a little lip balm. I don't take deodorant, I'm happy to just wash. I take floss and those little crest over finger" fabric toothbrushes instead of a real toothbrush and paste.

On a related note - but perhaps a sensitive topic - I notice your "peeing stuff" - I probably carry *more* than you for this and I'm a *guy*. If I'm going to be in snow, I'll "wash up" with that - otherwise - I often take a travel thing of baby wipes - the kind you can find in the drugstore that goes in mom's purse - a little plastic bag with 15 of em in it - or take a couple per day in a ziploc. I will wipe, then wash up "down there" with one, and then wash hands with another - especially if in a backcountry campsite with facilities that others use. Personally if I had my choice of carrying that or water treatment to avoid gastrointestinal issues, I'll take the washing gear - and drink untreated water.

>[*]dry bag - sleeping bag - 0lb 4oz
I use a trash bag


>[*]head lamp - 7oz
Owch - going caving? smile I use a petzl e-light - sub 1oz weight


[*]knife - 2oz

It's not rambo - but a tiny little victorinox classic with scissors and a small blade, tweezers, and toothpick does everything I need it to do on the trail for less weight.

>[*]fanny bag - 5oz

delete - use your mostly empty backpack for a dayhike.


>[*]river crossing sandals - 14oz

I suspect these are tevas or the like - those are heavy. Walmart sells croc's ripoffs made in china here for about 6 bucks. since they are cheap they desperately want to use as little plastic as possible in them and they are very puffed full of air and lighter than the genuine ones (they of course won't last as long but who cares) That'll probably save you
almost 10 oz.


>[*]water filter - 1lb 8oz

using aquamira instead will save you about 1 pound 6 oz.

>[*]cooking pot - 9oz

My little 3 cup pot weighs 150 grams or so - so about 5 oz, you're not doing too bad here, but check and see if this is more pot than you need for solo boil and dump type cooking


>Do I need a dry bag for my sleeping bag or will a garbage sack >work okay? Synthetic sleeping bag.

I take a garbage bag. I've gone swimming in rivers (oops) with a garbage bag around my sleeping bag, got to the far side, pulled everything out of the pack and laid it out, and had essentially no water in the sleeping bag at all. shook everything out and continued - the only casualty was my oatmeal in my food bag (which I now put in ziplocs!)

>I thought about taking my summer weight sleeping bag until I >saw the temps in the area. With temps in the 30s at night and >me sleeping cold...

I do trips like that with a -3C (25?) rater down bag that weighs about a pound and a bit - but I sleep warm - and I also have high maintenance princess taste in sleeping bags (meaning my wife complains about how much I spend on them smile

How much does your "summer" bag weigh and what is it rated?
While WD may say you don't need the puffy pants and extra sweater, will an extra night layer with your summer bag keep you comfortable and weigh less than taking the 0 degree bag?
(and are you comfortable sleeping in your bag with clothing on)

For a lot of years my "good" bag was the above, and I would sneak into shoulder season with it with a sweater and extra longjohns - that was lighter than carrying my (crappy heavy) warmer bag and less sleeping clothing. it's all about tradeoffs.

Your other option might be to have along a light overbag or bivy sack with your summer bag - compare how much that weighs to your colder weather bag - both options will add warmth and *might* weigh less.

Of course there's always treating yourself to a down bag at the lovely Fresno REI on your way to yosemite (I bought the only bear canister I own there, then didn't use it wink

Feel free to compare to a recent alpine area trip gear list of mine:
http://bofh.ucs.ualberta.ca/beck/pictures/whitegoat2010/gear.txt



Edited by phat (06/04/11 01:00 PM)
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#151109 - 06/04/11 11:54 PM Re: Pack list [Re: phat]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1737
Loc: Napa, CA
I agree with the other folks here. It's not that you are taking too much stuff, but a lot of your stuff is a bit on the heavy side...and as you can see, it does add up!

One thing I would point out--even if Crabtree Cabin is open, there are some steam crossings on that trail that may get your attention. This areas has very little soil...so when the melt comes, it comes all at once. If you are planning to go in through Grouse Lake you may be OK...but plan on some exciting times at the streams. You do have to cross Piute, I think, before you get to Grouse Lake. Ground Hog meadow may be pretty swampy...

And there is a crossing (or three?) between Louse Canyon and Woods Lake that might be high...

You can see how we did this hike on our website...but we did it much later in the year...and explored down through Pingree and Big Lake...Amazing area!

_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

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#151140 - 06/05/11 10:50 PM Re: Pack list [Re: phat]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Okay - You've all convinced me to buy a new backpack, cheap/light "crocks", and a new headlamp. Since I'll have all my gear with me, it is a perfect time to buy a new pack. (My current pack is about the same age I am - older than some, younger than others wink )

I just bought a new sleeping bag after two miserable summer over-nights up here - woke up shivering in the middle of the night (above freezing.) I put every piece of clothing on I had (including a pair of polar fleece pants and was still cold - course it is easier to stay warm than to get warm. Figure my summer bag must be a 50F+ bag. Got synthetic cuz the hubby is allergic and one less thing to figure out what is causing any allergic reactions (aka - better safe than sorry.)

GPS/PLB/compass - I'm paranoid... I also just learned how to route find last summer, and figured I should keep in practice, but I can do that up here. Compass removed from list. I'm wishy-washy on the PLB - if something happens and WD can't make it, I'm hiking by myself. Rule is, if I hike alone I'm supposed to carry the PLB - on the other hand, who knows if the TSA will let me have it on the plane (both ways.)

Sweat towel / contacts... I sweat A LOT. I wore a tank top on one of my winter hikes, +10F and was pleasantly warm. Glasses steam up and I hate not being able to see. On the other hand I hate contacts. Depending on the humidity I'll leave them in the car. Towel stays, not sure about contacts.

Where did you get the 1.5 oz bottle with spray sunscreen? I see REI has a 1 oz 30SPF, I'll see if the store has any.

This is the same pee bag I've taken on every trip - I do use less TP with the "pee tube" (like the REI freshette.) It does include a container of hand sanitizer. Though a handi-wipe or two might be nice. I'll try adding one for each day. It could be that my... intestinal routine is different than yours. =)

Some excellent ideas and I'm down to about 26 1/2 lbs (not including stove fuel or water.)

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#151144 - 06/06/11 02:59 AM Re: Pack list [Re: Heather-ak]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Heather-ak

Where did you get the 1.5 oz bottle with spray sunscreen? I see REI has a 1 oz 30SPF, I'll see if the store has any.


Hmm I think I lied, sorry, my math was off.. 30 ml is about
1 oz, not 1.5

Kinesys Sunscreen - 30 ml pump - that's what I take.

Quote:

This is the same pee bag I've taken on every trip - I do use less TP with the "pee tube" (like the REI freshette.) It does include a container of hand sanitizer. Though a handi-wipe or two might be nice. I'll try adding one for each day. It could be that my... intestinal routine is different than yours. =)


If you're taking sanitizer you'll only need one per #2 - I take two because I then wash my hands with the wipe - I don't take sanitizer.. WAIT - just saved you another oz, sort of... you're taking an alcohol stove - just use a little extra stove fuel as hand sanitizer - when I'm taking alky I do this.. dual use! leave the sanitizer at home!


Quote:

Some excellent ideas and I'm down to about 26 1/2 lbs (not including stove fuel or water.)


Even a nicely full featured ladies backpack like a gregory jade is about 1.5 kilos - so call it 3.2 pounds. you'll shave off more than a pound there. More so if you finda lighter comfy pack.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#151152 - 06/06/11 12:34 PM Re: Pack list [Re: Heather-ak]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
I think a paper map and compass is important to have as a backup in case of GPS battery failure, breakage, or malfunction.

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#151157 - 06/06/11 01:58 PM Re: Pack list [Re: ohiohiker]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6415
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I use only paper map and compass. At my age I'm interested neither in learning how to use yet another electronic gadget nor in carrying more batteries! Map-and-compass navigation has served mankind well for quite a few centuries and me for the past 65 years!

Heather, try repackaging things like bug dope and sunscreen in those little 10 ml dropper bottles you can get from Gossamer Gear. or from US Plastics. Never take more than you need for the trip!


Edited by OregonMouse (06/06/11 02:04 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#151162 - 06/06/11 03:09 PM Re: Pack list [Re: ohiohiker]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By ohiohiker
I think a paper map and compass is important to have as a backup in case of GPS battery failure, breakage, or malfunction.


Ditto this. I had a GPS along last week - when I turned it on, it put me in the middle of the ocean despite my being on a ridge top. Do not trust the electronics completely, they are frequently wrong for some reason and if you can't figure out why and re-calibrate the device (some GPS units won't allow re-calibration at all!) this is Bad News.

Maps are quicker to use since you can see the whole area and locate yourself on it in a jiffy without scrolling around on a tiny screen and hoping the map set has the trail on it (lately, none of the places I'm backpacking have the trails in the GPS - this is particularly true of Coe. Once you get off the roads the GPS is of no use in figuring out which trail to take at a junction.)
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#151170 - 06/06/11 08:23 PM Re: Pack list [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I agree; I use only map and compass (topo maps.) I like not only knowing where I am, but also knowing what the terrain looks like around me - oftentimes, by studying the topo, I know what I should be seeing off to my right and left, or even dead ahead.

However, like OM, I also have a 6 as one digit in my age, and I'm just not willing to let electronics intrude - it's the only part of my life where they haven't.

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#151206 - 06/07/11 09:24 PM Re: Pack list [Re: Heather-ak]
dkramalc Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: California
Hi, Heather,

Good suggestions from all the others above, so I'll just say this:

1) your sleeping bag is a bit overkill, this coming from a fellow cold sleeper, but unless you can borrow another one (15-20 degree bag) it's probably not worth buying a new one at this point

2) may not work for you, but my pee routine is to bring a light (< 1 oz) squirt bottle, 8-12 oz capacity, and rinse myself off after peeing, then just "shake it" dry - no need for toilet paper. I use TP only for #2, and sometimes do a soap and water afterwards or in my evening clean-up. I find the pee tube stuff too much trouble, and requires more cleanup both for the tube and myself. Also less waste than handi-wipes.

3) yes, re-bottle your sunscreen, etc. in smaller bottles. I save anything at home that looks like it would be good for backpacking portions (we have a "bottle box" in the laundry room cabinet).

4) if you absolutely want to use a groundcloth under the tent, find something lighter: http://www.amazon.com/Frost-V75H-Shrink-62-Inch-210-Inch/dp/B0000TPRDQ is the same as the Gossamer Gear polycryo groundcloth: http://gossamergear.com/shelters/shelter-accessories/polycryo-ground-cloth-large.html also may be able to find it at Home Depot or Ace Hardware. Tough enough to last for a few trips but amazingly light.

5) Hopefully the new pack you get will have hip belt pockets - I'm wondering if the fanny pack was intended for while you hike, to hold stuff close at hand?

6) I second the use of trash bag instead of dry bag.

You should have a great time, especially with WD - enjoy!

_________________________
dk

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#151207 - 06/07/11 09:32 PM Re: Pack list [Re: lori]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Lori what kind of PS was it that failed? Curious if it was a phone ap.

I believe in a chaotic world and there are many ways to skin a cat, BUT a GPS is accurate and reliable enough to drop a smart weapon on a hardened target. GPS technology is neither unreliable nor in its infancy and is infact an old and reliable technology.

I too have a 6 in my number, but I was an electronics engineer. I can even operate a BIC lighter single handed!!! So since I feel compelled to give the other side:
The single most important principle in traditional (map and compass) navigation is "NEVER GET LOST" which sounds silly since who would really care where they were unless they were lost? confused but the idea is "if you know where you are and where you want to go, you simply calculate a route and follow it. However if you are lost a compass will do absolutely NOTHING to get you unlost (but looking at a map might), HOWEVER if you have a GPS and its been turned on, IT KNOWS where your truck or waypoint is and it will guide you there.
I look at google earth and maps to plan a trip, then I turn on my GPS and mark my car and carry spare batteries. There is absolutely nothing as comforting when lost in the mountains as a reliable arrow pointing the route and telling you the distance to your vehicle.
Jim
Heather I'm really glad you're going with WD. If it were me, I would take 15 degree bag or some 300 fleece pants.


Edited by Jimshaw (06/08/11 12:06 AM)
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#151208 - 06/07/11 10:16 PM Re: Pack list [Re: Jimshaw]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
Lori what kind of PS was it that failed? Curious if it was a phone ap.

I believe in a chaotic world and there are many ways to skin a cat, BUT a GPS is accurate and reliable enough to drop a smart weapon on a hardened target. GPS technology is neither unreliable nor in its infancy and is infact an old and reliable technology.

I too have a 6 in my number, but I was an electronics engineer. I can even operate a BIC lighter single handed!!! So since I feel compelled to give the other side:
The single most important principle in traditional (map and compass) navigation is "NEVER GET LOST" which sounds silly since who would really care where they were unless they were lost? confused but the idea is "if you know where you are and where you want to go, you simply calculate a route and follow it. However if you are lost a compass will do absolutely NOTHING to get you unlost (but looking at a map might), HOWEVER if you have a GPS and its been turned on, IT KNOWS where your truck or waypoint is and it will guide you there.
I look at google earth and maps to plan a trip, then I turn on my GPS and mark my car and carry spare batteries. There is absolutely nothing as comforting when lost in the mountains as a reliable arrow pointing the route and telling you the distance to your vehicle.
Jim


It's actually a very good GPS - but it's electronic and not immune to goofy reception or bad data, any more than anything else with a computer chip is. This is the only time it's done that sort of thing - all other trips it's connected solidly to at least six or more satellites and been at least within a quarter mile of accurate.

And I can get unlost with just a compass and a map - in the right terrain. (Being on flat plains a topo map doesn't help much...) One of the things we learn is how to triangulate based on terrain and we can do so pretty well, given we start out with knowledge of direction of travel and approximate location within a few miles, because the main goal of navigation is to not get lost in the first place and paying attention as you go along to the position of the sun, the surroundings, landmarks, etc is worth the effort.

We have been on a search and rescue op and had two GPS units send two people in different directions after they punched in the SAME UTM COORDINATE. Same Garmin, with the same maps. These are all $500 units, not cheesy junk. Hiking along we navigate with the units and sometimes we can be standing precisely on an intersection of forest service roads, and yet the GPS shows us as being down one or the other road. Is this the GPS or the mapset? Don't know, but it's happened often.

I don't trust googlemaps either, thanks to all the wrong directions it's given me. Nothing like winding up in the wrong suburb with your meeting half an hour away!
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