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#149666 - 04/27/11 08:17 PM Opinions wanted
CamperMom Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: Eastern MA, USA
Hi, Guys-

I'm planning a 6-8 day backpacking trip and want to cache food at the half-way point. I have a Bearikade, but am afraid it will be stolen. They are expensive enough that it would be worth a local vandal's time and gas expense to go home and get bolt cutters, then sell the can. This, unfortunately, is a high-vandalism area, so we are not able to leave cars even in the daytime in local lots. I'm thinking that chaining an ammo can to a tree and disguising it with leaves and brush in an out of the way spot is the way to go.

Opinions? Suggestions?

CamperMom

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#149668 - 04/27/11 08:37 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
The ammo can idea could work. It should be bearproof. Chaining it to a tree should also help keep it from being dragged off. Your basic approach seems fine here.

Some further tips about caches.

Placing a cache near a road works best, if that option is available to you, simply to limit the distance you have to carry it when you set it out and when you retreive it. An ammo box is not light and is pretty awkward to carry very far.

You'll want it to be entirely out of sight from the road or the trail, as in unnoticeable. Just setting it behind a convenient fallen log could be enough of a hiding place. Covering it over with large debris is also good.

Take some time to think out the placement and how you'll recognize the spot when you need to find it again. GPS would be plenty good enough, but if you don't have one, leave an unobtrusive marker, perhaps using natural materials arranged in a somewhat unnatural way. If you spend several minutes to memorize the placement, you should discover yourself walking right up to it without a moment of hesitation.

Make sure it isn't in a place where it will overheat in sunlight.

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#149672 - 04/27/11 10:32 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Hide it in the bear cannister. Bag it so as to minimize odors/attractive smells from comming from it. I have met others on trial who do the same thing and that is what I do. If you are worried about finding it again, treat it like a geocach. Basically, I am seconding aimless.


Edited by skcreidc (04/27/11 10:33 PM)

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#149673 - 04/27/11 10:33 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
ndsol Offline
member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
Ammo cans are what are used at the Boulderfield campsites on Longs Peak to keep marmots and other critters out.

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#149676 - 04/28/11 06:01 AM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
GrumpyGord Online   content
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Michigan
You may want to consider one of the odor proof bags sold for the Ursack. Otherwise you may find other small animals like raccoons may uncover it even though they cannot get inside.

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#149678 - 04/28/11 07:32 AM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: aimless]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
If you are an increasingly memory challenged old geezer like myself (and you obviously are not) use your handy dandy digital camera to take some pictures of the cache as an aid to guide you to your food.

Be sure to have a plan B if anything happens to your cache. Ammo cans have worked for me against critters smaller than bears.

"There ae two things wrong with growing old. One is memory loss and I forget what the other one is..."

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#149681 - 04/28/11 09:19 AM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Paint stores will sell you unused paint cans at a very reasonable price. Lighter and easier to carry than ammo cans, but be sure and carry what you need to open it. I will not discuss how I know this tip.

You have gotten some excellent suggestions.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#149686 - 04/28/11 12:16 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Do you use a gps? If so, I'd stash it in the container of your choice at least a quarter mile off the road/trail and use your concealment skills to render it not visible to anybody not literally atop it. Record a waypoint and perhaps take pics so you can easily find your way back.

For critterproofing, large rocks piled atop it should do the trick unless the area is frequented by highly skilled bears. I like the paintcan idea, as one 1-gallon can should hold enough for 3-4 days. I don't know if anybody uses metal paint cans any more, but rodents could conceivably chew on a plastic one. If you're ambitious, spraying it with a camo pattern could help conceal it.

Trying to secure it in sight of others probably guarantees it won't be there, so stealth would seem to be the way to go.

IIRC Colin Fletcher has information on caches in his book.

Cheers,

Originally Posted By CamperMom
Hi, Guys-

I'm planning a 6-8 day backpacking trip and want to cache food at the half-way point. I have a Bearikade, but am afraid it will be stolen. They are expensive enough that it would be worth a local vandal's time and gas expense to go home and get bolt cutters, then sell the can. This, unfortunately, is a high-vandalism area, so we are not able to leave cars even in the daytime in local lots. I'm thinking that chaining an ammo can to a tree and disguising it with leaves and brush in an out of the way spot is the way to go.

Opinions? Suggestions?

CamperMom
_________________________
--Rick

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#149688 - 04/28/11 01:08 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Just one last thought. If all else fails, and you conceal your cache and are unable to return to it, archaeologists of the future will benefit immensely. Your cache will probably be soneone's PhD dissertation....

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#149689 - 04/28/11 01:30 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
I don't know your area but the black bears in my neck of the woods can peel off car doors. They would make short work of an ammo can which, unlike a proper bear canister, offers nice edges to give their claws purchase. And if left unattended they will have plenty of time to work on it.
_________________________
If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

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#149693 - 04/28/11 01:57 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I kind of like the METAL paint can idea (even though I am thinking a lot like trailrunner on this one). The one benifit is that you have a good chance of packing the thing and leaving no food oders on the outside if you do it right. Don't handle it bare handed, and make sure it maintains its metallic odor on the outside. If a bear finds it...food gone!

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#149695 - 04/28/11 02:09 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: skcreidc]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
A Paint can would take no time at all for a bear to get into. A old style steel amo can may due but I think a persistent bear could get in that as well. Amo cans do seal well perhaps it would hide the sent enough? I would try it but hide it close to a road where I could hitch to get backup food!

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#149698 - 04/28/11 02:52 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I have no experience with caching food, so this may be of no use at all - or may be something you already considered.

How remote an area are you hiking? I'm wondering if you would be passing through, or near, a small town or village. Would there be a store or post office that would be willing to hold your cache for you? It might mean an extra mile or two of walking, but it would remove all doubt that it would be there. Of course, you'd need to time it to arrive when the facility was open. (And, if it's a store, it wouldn't hurt if you could buy something from them.)

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#149699 - 04/28/11 03:02 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: Kent W]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Totally agree ken. The main point from me is that to use something this flimsy, you HAVE to make sure that no food odors exist. No food odors, no attraction. Easiest way to do that is to not introduce them in the first place. And maybe after sealing the can, spray the thing down with pepper spray. Just make it unpleasant to be around. Cause, as you say, if a bear decides to get in, its in.

And just to clarify my stance, a hidden bear canister would be my personal selection. I was just intrigued with the potential of using a metal paint can.

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#149700 - 04/28/11 03:06 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: skcreidc]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
I think I've heard somewhere that pepper spray attracts bears after the fact, i.e. don't spray it on something (like your tent) and expect it to keep the bears away. It is, after all, based on a food product but in VERY concentrated form.
_________________________
If I wouldn't eat it at home, why would I want to eat it on the trail?

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#149702 - 04/28/11 03:22 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: thecook]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
pepper spray attracts bears

Right, in regard to the residue. It makes sense that it does. To a bear it's just another smell and they are curious creatures when it comes to smells.

Appropriate use for pepper spray is discharging it as a dense cloud, in the face of a charging bear. Other uses are not effective.

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#149703 - 04/28/11 03:47 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
As followup, I'm inferring from CamperMom's OP she's concerned with critters of the two-legged variety and is not confronted with Yosemite/Adirondack-quality bears (or bears in general in an area frequented by thieving, likely armed yahoos).

Smell-proofing is a good idea, regardless.

Last summer a friend and I came across a year-old camp in Desolation Wilderness, complete with canned food untouched by Sierra bears, so I know they don't find everything.

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#149707 - 04/28/11 05:03 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
Slowfoot Offline
member

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Missouri
I've used ammo boxes for food caches in Missouri and Arkansas, where bears exist but are not seen very often. I've never had a problem with any kind of animal, but of course it's possible. I prefer to use a hole created by an uprooted tree if there's one nearby. Since you'll be back in less than a week, it shouldn't be too hard to memorize a landmark to help you find it.

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#149708 - 04/28/11 05:10 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: Trailrunner]
GDeadphans Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 382
Loc: Maine/New Jersey
Could you possibly do some orienteering to stash your food box? Find an obvious marker, orient your compass and store there. I am talking like 20 yards off the trail, nothing crazy. When you get back to the spot, just do a bit of orienteering and a short bushwhack walk to the spot...?

I am willing to bet that the vandals are not hikers...and most likely wont go in to the woods. Even if they are hikers, chances are they wont go in to the woods and stumble on your food either. Regardless, you win.
_________________________
"To me, hammocking is relaxing, laying, swaying. A steady slow morphine drip without the risk of renal failure." - Dale Gribbel

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#149711 - 04/28/11 07:42 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: CamperMom]
Mudflap Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 13
I've never tried this but i know of it working. If u have a GPS thingy whatsy Bury the cache a little ways of trail and mark the GPS coordinates. then batta-bing, when you get there unbury it. Like I said I have never had to do that and I dont have a GPS but i know of hikers who have done it so as to avoid in town shopping or mail drops. That is my opinion.

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#149712 - 04/28/11 07:55 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: thecook]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
That the bears are attracted to pepper spray would make sense! After I stuck that in, I had second thoughts about it... eek. I put gloves on the dice up habanero chilies so I don't rub my face with it later, but I love eating the things.

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#149714 - 04/28/11 08:17 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: Mudflap]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
If you're caching food, it would seem to indicate that pack weight is a concern. Wouldn't you have to carry something sturdier than a plastic trowel to uncover it - which means carrying unnecessary weight? (Again, I'll freely admit I've never cached, and that this question may be way off base.)

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#149716 - 04/28/11 08:26 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: Glenn]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Even a month in advance, it's USUALLY not hard to use the potty trowel to dig the thing out. The only time I've snapped a plastic trowel is going #2...

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#149718 - 04/28/11 08:46 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: skcreidc]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Thanks. I didn't know for sure, so just thought I'd ask.

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#149721 - 04/28/11 10:17 PM Re: Opinions wanted [Re: Glenn]
CamperMom Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: Eastern MA, USA
Wow!
Thanks for all of the replies. I still think my Bearikade would disappear with some two-legged critter. This is in a part of the AT with a bad rep for vandalism for simple meanness, as well as theft. Yes, to the OP Aloksaks. Was thinking of using these. No GPS available. Pic is a good idea. Hopefully, I will remember to bring a camera or my phone will be charged. Do you all remember Valcour? He was espousing paint cans as something that would not allow food odors to permeate the metal to the outside. I left food in a sealed can outdpprs in a few places that I know to be frequented by racoons. The can was totally unmolested. My food BAG with unused meals was by my back door and raccoons popped the screen door to get to it in the same time period. The paint can, disquised and with no spilled food, could very well work. An Aloksak liner would be even more protection, like suspenders with a belt.
Thanks, again!
CM

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