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#148963 - 04/06/11 10:54 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: sjohnny]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I got some more stuff seeded today and yesterday. Thinned my lettuce and radishes that are sprouting and seeded a bunch more. A handful of those radish sprouts would be great in a salad, but I ate them all while I was thinning them wink

The "low tunnel greenhouse" did a great job protecting my broccoli, cauliflower, and cabbage transplants from below freezing mornings, hail storms, hard rain and strong winds (we had all that last week). I took the visqueen off yesterday and the plants look great. I'm pretty excited with using them to get my garden started earlier and keep it going longer. And I'm really hoping that I can eat some cabbage this year instead of watching grasshoppers have parties on them.

I've got all the beds prepped for planting. Last frost is around April 21st, but my wife brought home some plants tonight so I think I'll make some more tunnel greenhouses tomorrow and start the tomatoes and pepper plants she got under them. I'll seed some cukes outside them too. They might get lucky and I'll seed some more after last frost anyway.

She also brought home some two year old Asparagus shoots. Not sure where I'm going to put them yet, but since they come up every year it has to be someplace where they'll be for good. I love asparagus, but I need to learn more about it.

In about another week there should be enough green showing to see in a photo so I'll be posting one soon. By the end of this month we should be eating the first of the lettuce and radishes. Since I didn't take a photo of the garden today I'll post this one of a toad that I did take:



I have no idea what kind of toad that is, but it's pretty cute. Just a tiny thing, couldn't have been more than a inch and half long.

I'll be trying to do more "Succession" and "Companion" planting this year. In some of my beds I'm planting lettuce and radishes now, and I'll put in tomatoes, peppers, beans, and what not, in a little later. When the later plants get big I'll pull the lettuce out since it will have gone bitter and maybe plant some more seed. But it should help keep the weeds down by crowding them out before then. Once the tomatoes are big, they'll keep the weeds crowded out by themselves and shade the new lettuce so it doesn't bolt to seed too fast. That's the plan anyway. We'll see how well I implement it and how well it works.

One thing I learned last year is that weeds aren't all that terrible. I was still harvesting tomatoes and beans and peppers in October even though they were hiding in the weeds that had grown over them.

This will be my third year with this all "organic" garden. I've never used pesticides or herbicides on that land. That's more than 15 years now and probably longer than that. I don't know if I grow more weeds or produce a year at this point, but the produce I get is pretty good so I'll keep at it this way.


_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#148968 - 04/07/11 08:50 AM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: billstephenson]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
I never use sprays, if anything, naturally occuring stuff I guess like BT for cabbabe/broccoli family, and my fingers for squishing bugs. Of course not many bugs here in the mountains except grasshoppers and gophers.

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#148969 - 04/07/11 09:09 AM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: hikerduane]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
You guys (Duane and Bill) are pretty good about keeping it natural. We get aphids and mealy bugs galore if I don't spray with soap. We have lots of ants and they (as you probably know) farm the pests along with scale bugs. So its a constant battle staying up on pests and we don't have much yard. Even with all the ladybugs we have, still have to spray spots.

Hey Bill! I LIKE the idea of using the tomatoes to shade other plants that tend to bolt! I think I will try that with the cilantro. I have to wait to plant it when the tomatoes are bigger anyway.

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#148980 - 04/07/11 05:01 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Well, this is one corner of our puny backyard. The "girls" are always in this 13 by 13 foot space.



Right now it is set up for the rain, but soon the plastic sheeting will come down.

These last two are for jimshaw...





There is a large door at the front so that I can easily clean the box out and grab eggs. Total floor space is 3 by 9 foot and 6 foot max height. It gets hot here so its built to keep 'em cool hence the plastic for storms. If I would do anything it would be to add more roosting sites and split the nesting site. They really like to roost.

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#148988 - 04/07/11 07:13 PM Re: Garden 2011 [Re: billstephenson]
sjohnny Offline
member

Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 185
Loc: Central Texas
We've already got tiny little tomatoes on our plants!

I don't use any chemicals either. I use diatomaceous earth for pest control for the soft bodied critters. I used a little bit of insecticidal soap for the aphids but it's considered organic. I have an endless supply of llama poop that I compost and the plants love that. It gets put in my compost pile and kitchen scraps go in with it.

For weed control I bought the black fabric and went nuts with it this year. Anywhere that isn't a purposely planted plant is covered with that fabric. I got tired of fighting weeds so here we are. When I want to make a new bed I cut out some of the fabric where the bed is going to be. I still need to get a little bit more to cover my entire garden area. My plants are doing better than ever. I did a good check of the fence I share with the goat neighbor and it looks pretty good. Hopefully won't have a repeat of last year. Both my apple trees and my peach tree and getting lots of leaves on them too.

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#148991 - 04/07/11 07:28 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I finally found a shot of my DIL's Buff Orphington chickens!




They lay beautiful brown eggs with deep yellow yolks.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#148993 - 04/07/11 07:40 PM Re: Garden 2011 [Re: billstephenson]
sjohnny Offline
member

Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 185
Loc: Central Texas
I have a structure on my place that I need to tear down. I'm hoping there will be enough usable lumber and metal roofing to build a greenhouse and a chicken coop. The first part is actually getting up off my rear and tearing it down. I also have to put up 300 feet of field fence before I let my sheep out onto another field. So many fun things to do, so little time.

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#148995 - 04/07/11 08:47 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: OregonMouse]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Beautiful rooster, look at those spurs. Ow!

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#148999 - 04/07/11 10:01 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: OregonMouse]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Buff's are a great all round Chicken. They're great layers and the Roosters get big and meaty. Plus, the hens are good at brooding, so they're one of my favorites.

Barred Rocks are sweet too. I have one left that's going on three years old now. She follows me all around the barnyard when I'm out there. She left the coop last year and sleeps in the trees out there now. She came inside the coop about three times this winter when it got really cold and when we has ice storms.

I got all the baby chicks in the coop now. I'm pretty sure there are some Rhode Island Reds in the mix, no Buffs, and a few I don't know yet. They're loving all the room and getting "Cocky" out there. I put a big branch in there today so they can start learning to roost. They're a crack up at this gawky stage.

BTW, nice set-up skcreidc.

I'll post a few pics tomorrow of my coop and barn and garden. I came up with a great, cheap way to make the hoops for my "Low Tunnel Greenhouses". I planted the asparagus this evening and made the hoops just before sunset. I'll put the plastic on tomorrow and take a picture of it too.
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#149000 - 04/07/11 10:08 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: OregonMouse]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Well OM, I would have to say that your families' Buff Orphingtons are beautiful! When we "retire" and move up near JimShaw (scary, huh) on a decent piece of land we own, we can have a proper flock. We can't have roosters where we live laugh for the obvious reason.

Our friend gets new chickens each year. Last year we went in with her on a batch of 25+.



This is a chick scrum with 5 different breeds. They are all pretty cute at that age...



When they lost their down, we stuck them outside (still had the heat lamp at nite).



I looked into birds and choose the Plymouth Rocks just because they looked durable and fairly well behaved (and were good for meat and laying). Michaela is holding one. But by the time we put them outside, they were also the most personable of the birds. Very curious also. It was easy to dispatch birds I really didn't know, but I was starting to like these. They are the ones roosting highest; predominantly black with a little white scullcap.

I forget what the solid yellow ones were, but the only ones we lost were two of those out of 30 total.



Edited by skcreidc (04/07/11 10:10 PM)

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#149001 - 04/07/11 10:37 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: billstephenson]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Bill over the years when I had chickens, you would get one now and then that was friendlier than the others. Occasionally I would go sit out in their pen and just watch them, seeing how close they would come to me, I've had some jump up on my leg for a treat or when I let them out of their pen, they would come up on my steps to the house and get treats from me. I had to try hypnotizing them also, most it worked on, my grandfather showed me that trick. I found little bunnies the hardest to dispatch, so inquisitive then...........

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#149003 - 04/07/11 10:56 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
Joshuatree Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 62
Loc: Wisconsin
I've noticed quite a few of you have Chickens or are looking at getting into raising them. I ran across a niffty looking do it yourself nesting boxes I do miss the farm fresh eggs I used to get when I lived in north wiscosin. I did notice spring is getting closer here, I watched a pair of Cardinals building thier nest in the big pines in the front yard kind of strange to see in the middle of the city.

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#149004 - 04/07/11 11:01 PM Re: Garden 2011 [Re: sjohnny]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
You should look into the "Ruth Stout" method of gardening. Basically she piled on mulch so thick it choked out the weeds and enriched the soil.

I've been working on getting that right. I take all my leaves and grass clippings and pile them on my garden and around the plants. That's helped a lot, but I still had weeds take over by August last year. Ruth Stout said that if you have weeds you need more mulch. I piled more on this year than ever before, but I'll still have weeds. I still need more mulch smile

She also said, "don't worry about weeds". If you get a few weeds it's not that big of a deal. Some will deter pest, others will attract beneficial insects, and you can still harvest what you've planted. I went with that last year because it was too darn hot to go out and pluck weeds in August. But I did still go out and harvest what I'd planted and I got a lot out of that weedy garden. It wasn't that pretty to look at though blush

Another thing Ruth Stout said was that if you kept a thick layer of mulch you wouldn't need to till your garden. This is true. After two years of tilling in leaf mulch into the hard clay soil we have here each Spring and then piling on the mulch all year, I did not have to til this year. I pulled the mulch back and I can sink my hands into what is now rich black soil that's full of earthworms. And, she said, because of this the weeds you have will be easier to pull out. This is true too.

I've basically followed her methods with this plot from the beginning. It's a long process to get it all working right. At least it takes a few years here to get the soil built up and really soft and loose, and years of mulching to get the weeds finally smothered out. I'm not there yet, but I am getting closer every year to really following her advice and so far it's working like she said it will.

I've learned more from reading up on Ruth Stout than just about anyone when it comes to organic gardening. She also mentioned that it gets a lot easier once you get it all going, I hope she's right about that too laugh

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"You want to go where?"



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#149012 - 04/08/11 07:50 AM Re: Garden 2011 [Re: billstephenson]
sjohnny Offline
member

Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 185
Loc: Central Texas
We have hard clay soil also. I started with raised beds a few years ago and just added compost and mulch to the soil in the beds and tilled it in. I just didn't like the grass and weeds creeping in to the beds so I went with the weed barrier this year. The soil where I've been adding organic material is actually getting pretty nice after a few years of working with it. I can actually dig in it which is hard to do in the summer when that clay gets hard as rock.

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#149016 - 04/08/11 10:09 AM Re: Garden 2011 [Re: sjohnny]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Sjohnny, I settled on the raised beds after trying a bunch of different things. The two differences between us are that my house is right next to the growing area and that it is built on hardened and marine sediments. Any time I dig I find fossils (and not good ones). With that the back would flood with any 2"+ rain so I went with raised beds with 2 inches of decomposed granite between everything to walk on with a drainage system to the front under everything. Weeds still pop up so I pick 'em and feed them to the chickens. When I turn over the soil in the beds I find grubs...straight to the chickens. I have to make sure I give them a handful at a time or they fight over them.

Thanks for the bucket nest idea joshuatree, cheap and easy!

I will have to look into Ruth Stout as well...


Edited by skcreidc (04/08/11 10:13 AM)

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#149026 - 04/08/11 12:18 PM Re: Garden 2011 [Re: skcreidc]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Thanks for the bucket nest idea joshuatree, cheap and easy!

I tried that a couple years ago and my hens were not impressed or happy with them.

Funny though, I'd never heard of anyone else trying it, and it seemed like a great idea when I had it, and what I built is almost a dead ringer for what's in that picture.

They might work good for smaller breeds though, mine were all larger breeds when I tried that.

The hens liked what I have now better, but it could still be improved, they weren't really thrilled with them either. They're pretty picky about nest, and they lay better when they're happy, that's for sure.
_________________________
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"You want to go where?"



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#149041 - 04/08/11 06:09 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
so will chickens live together with geese and ducks and a pig?
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#149048 - 04/08/11 08:04 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: Jimshaw]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Jim, I would guess yes, but I have never had that combination (and probably never will). I would say you need different nesting facilities. Bill will probably be able to point out some problem/solutions for that combination. Obviously if everything is separate...

I will say that most ducks are mellow. Geese on the other hand are on my list of have to have with some property. They are great guard animals; you do have to let them know who is boss though. They raise a racket with rattle snakes, mountain lions, and just about anything or body that comes on to your property. They really are the early warning system. The dogs are the enforcers, geese are the early warning system. (They might even chase unwanted relatives away...or at least keep them in there car). If one is particularly obnoxious, it is Christmas dinner and the others will know...

With all these critters, you may have to protect your gardens from them. But you will never be lonely grin

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#149050 - 04/08/11 08:17 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Short story.

Doing a pump test on a domestic well in the back country (everyone owns 20 acres or more). Most places don't have fences on the property boundary and the place just to the east of us has a boundary basically marked by a gully. My buddy Dan is with me helping me monitor some of the wells for interaction, but after it is set up with transducers it is all done by computer. The three geese next door are watching us curiously and Dan sees them and comments. The geese and I know each other well AND they still try to bite me. I tell Dan to leave the birds alone but NO. Flip-flops and all Dan heads into the gully and the geese immediately start craining their necks to follow where Dan is going while making some racket. As soon as he is at the bottom, they are waddling over ASAP honking up a storm. Dan's back in two minutes telling me how mean the geese are...tell me about it laugh. I monitor that families well on a regular basis and while I measure water level in the well I am simultaneously smacking the geese with my clipboard to keep from being bit. Gotta love em.

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#149052 - 04/08/11 08:31 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Another story, or perhaps a believe it or not...

Had some friends who had chickens, ducks, a goat, and some rabbits (ok, and rats, dogs, cats...you get the picture. I am forgetting stuff). They adopted a rescue pot bellied pig. The woman who owned him apparently had a rough divorce and taken to drinking. So the pigs routine for a while was ham and eggs for breakfast. Then a screwdriver around 10am just before a 2 hour drive in a convertible. The poor things hooves were untrimmed, it was over weight, and it had a real hankering for lipstick. It constantly took out the screen door and scratched its back on the base of the Grandfather Clock. His name was Hammy. After 6 months Hammy went to a better place.

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#149078 - 04/09/11 06:53 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I saw a goose by a pond in a park in San Francisco (Harding) and I decided to try to get up close and personal and get his photo. goodjob It was the days of single lens reflex cameras and as I was trying to focus my Canon the goose seemed to be getting larger and I had to keep turning the focus ring, then it grabbed me - duh - it was getting closer and then it grabbed me... smile Amazing how well it hung on and I was trying to avoid injuring it since it was a park animal, but anything with that long of neck should be more careful.

Yah I love animals. I'd have rabbits but I couldn't kill em so we'll get chickens. We have a friend with two 300 pound (pet) Javelina boars in his backyard. No longer so cute that people feed them icecream... but he is too attached to them to eat bacon and I understand. I have people trying to give me animals and I can get almost any livestock for free here cause people are worried about feeding their families. Its a fine line of animal cruelty, but the reality is when the pioneer family perishes, so does their livestock, and trust me, Central Oregon is STILL pioneer country... shocked

Still waiting - many bulb blooms holding just inside some leaves waiting for warmer weather to open.


Edited by Jimshaw (04/09/11 06:54 PM)
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#149102 - 04/10/11 09:43 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: Jimshaw]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Just curious Jim, do you expect Central Oregon to be pioneer country 20, 30 years from now? I don't get up there too often.

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#149108 - 04/11/11 12:39 AM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: skcreidc]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
sk
you said you were thinking of retireing up here. To keep this on topic - this is a short USDA zone 4b growing area with many native rodents, squirrels, and huge bird flyways - things will eat your plants even if deer can't get over the fence. Its dry here and the "dirt" resembles piles of volcanic ash more than potting soil. Central Oregon is the Land of Broken Dreams. Many a pioneers has built a homestead and planted crops and watched his livestock and family wither away until generally after 5 years, broke and broken, they leave.

None of my neighbors seem to have gardens. I dunno why - its kinda country and theres lots of deer.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#149110 - 04/11/11 06:46 AM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: Jimshaw]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Jim...

Maybe your neighbors aren't the optimists that you are?

Many people around here have given up on gardening due to the dramatically increased deer population. I might put a tomato plant in a pot on the back porch, but that is about as adventurous as I think I'll be willing to get.

MNS
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YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

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#149114 - 04/11/11 12:46 PM Re: Garden 2011 ( low tunnel greenhouse) [Re: Jimshaw]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Although retired is a relative term, I doubt I will get energetic enough to start a farm grin. But to keep sort of on topic, a greenhouse could be put to good use in that environment. Up on White Mountain (CA east of Bishop) high schoolers have grown crops in small boxes above 12000 feet. If you design it right, you can maximise heat storage in the colder months using passive solar ideas. Or you can just grow 4 tomato plants in a box with a cover on it like the kids did in the White Mountains. I is just up to how carried away you want to get. But you might have to really think about the layout in terms of sun direction and angle. Anyway, I would probably just go for some fruit trees, lots of berry bushes, and a 15x20 foot greenhouse. After that, I think your bulb garden sounds pretty cool along with native plants.

I was curious about the pioneer aspect as there is a pretty substantial Polynesian community in Bend.


Edited by skcreidc (04/11/11 12:49 PM)

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