Note to hosts/admins: I wasn't sure where to put this so I put it here, since he's much older than most of the kids being discussed down in the kids board.

The question is: My brother Thomas will be twelve on the 17th. How much weight can he realistically carry? How would I even go about figuring that out?

In the early 80s when I started backpacking as a pre-teen/teen I was carrying about 40 pounds for three to four day trips in the Rockies or Big Bend. This was in an aluminum framed pack with horribly uncomfortable shoulder straps. I was a good sized kid but it was still pretty damned heavy for me. We didn't subscribe to much of the lightweight stuff (I don't know if many did back then). My dad and I did some short overnight trips to see how much I could handle.

Most of my 12-year-old Scouts could carry their own gear. They were sharing group gear, so two boys would be splitting a 2-person tent (Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight), Whisperlite stove, 2-pot cookkit, and water filter, plus their personal gear. I'd estimate each was carrying about 15 - 20 pounds.

The formula I've always used was about 20% of a person's "ideal" body weight. From that number, I deduct any overweight. For example, my ideal weight is 180 pounds, which means my target would be 36 pounds. Right now, I weigh 190 (winter weight), which means I could carry a 26 pound load of gear.

Shoot, Glen. If that's the case, I need to be packing helium-filled balloons. My base weight is less than my fat surplus.

Thanks for the help. I'll do the math and see what it comes out as.

Gads Man I am Going to have to Hire a Sherpa to backpack 4 nights in the smokies! Send me your resumes!
I will most likley have to get drastic,I will draw on my gift from the Dolly Lama.
Total consciousnes will have to see me through, Glad I have that going for me!
Thats Good I Think!

Glenn's formula is similar to something I use (I would use 25%). But really, I think more than half of backpacking is mental. And on top of that, if his backpack is digging holes in him it won't matter how many pounds he is carrying. So it is better to go light as possible with a backpack he is relatively unfamiliar with. Also to consider is his physical conditioning, but the key is to not have sore spots develop on his body. If he is already used to backpacking and his backpack, then the 20% is a good guideline as a max. He is still growing.

Kids can be very tough. My scout troup, dominated by 11 and 12 year olds, did a 73 mile section from Reds Meadows to Yosemite in a week where it dumped rain every day we were on trail. We started with 25%+ of our weight (this was in the 1960's) because everybody carried food for the 7 days. It is one of the trips I best remember (fondly) despite the amount of water we saw. But we all wanted to be there, and that is probably the key point.

But seriously, it really depends on the kid. 12 is a bad age, they can be either a complete horse and walk you into the ground, or scrawny and awkward.

Most kids that age that I've seen can carry their own stuff, particularly if you get them off on the right foot for carrying things lightweight. Teach them to make an alky stove, nothing will peak a 12 year old's interest more than playing with flammable substances, and then they'll be thinking about lightweight.

(I'm serious about that last bit..)

I forgot to mention that others use legitimately use 25 or 30% in the calculation, but they're usually talking about adults. For kids, I always selected 20% as a rule of thumb, since their bones and muscles aren't as fully developed as an adult's and since, as others point out, kids' size and growth patterns can put them all over the place physically. A higher percentage might well be realistic for taller, sturdier kids.

Does the higher percentage help you replace helium balloons with gear? (I can joke about it, because I was in the helium-balloon brigade, too, not a whole lot of years ago; it was what first attracted me to the whole lightweight gear thing. Before that, I adjusted trip mileage, number of days out, terrain, and hiking pace to compensate - when I couldn't figure out how to get negative mileage, I was left with losing weight. Bummer.)

Like someone else said, as an adult, you can also simply decide you're going to do it, and go ahead. I did, and it worked - it was harder, and less comfortable, but I still enjoyed it. The weight loss was partly triggered by the realization, around age 50, that I had to carry lighter gear or lose weight if I wanted to continue to backpack for another 20 years; a Type II diabetes diagnosis at age 60 was the final push to get really serious about weight loss.

As a scout master, I routinely get 12 year olds who have never backpacked, and many times never really hiked at all. This is very surprising considering we are surrounded by mountains. Anyways, with the inexperienced and not in shape ones, I generally try to make sure they have a pack that fits and then make sure they carry all of their own gear. By simply trying to limit how many clothes they bring, water they carry, and knives they carry, this generally knocks the weight down considerably. So, in other words, by following lightweight practices, A 12 year old should be fine carrying what is needed. A 16 year old, on the other hand, should be given some of your weight to slow him down.

16-year-olds become the custodians of my rock collection.

Your experience is pretty consistent with mine: prohibiting unneccessary clothes and the toys and other distractions, plus weeding out the stuff Uncle Joe told them they needed (like the long-handled axe and the Bowie knife), pretty well got the weight down to manageable levels.

or the four D-battery maglites. I had to confiscate a few of those from the boys.

At least with scouts it just makes me smile. We've all been there when we were that age (and if you're male and not admitting it shame on you).

When I see the same symptoms in grown adults on the trail it makes me shake my head

Ok, this is sounding pretty good. I don't want to weigh him down, but I need him to at least carry his own rain gear, sleeping bag, and shelter. If I could give him a shared item or two that would also be great, but I am prepared to carry the lion's share.

Thanks for your help. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

I think he should also be able to carry his share of the food, plus his own spare clothing (if any), and perhaps the water filter. That leaves you with the kitchen, first aid kit, and anything else you're sharing.

I notice you said he would carry his own shelter - are you both using solo tents? If so, you might want to consider his reaction to sleeping in the woods "alone" (even though you're a few feet away.) I thought my 11-year-old niece would be OK doing that - she'd been on several trips with me in a group, and shared a tent with another girl, and no problems. So, on our first trip by ourselves, I figured she'd do just fine in a solo tent. I hadn't planned for the thunderstorm. We were camped down in a little valley, well-protected from the storm, with our doors facing each other about 5 feet apart. But with the first flash of lightning, she was suddenly not ready to sleep by herself, and we ended up with both of us in my solo tent. After that night, she was fine in storms - but in choosing a shelter, you may want to consider whether, for his first trip, your brother will really want to sleep on his own.

If you do decide to take a two-person tent, he could always carry the tent body while you carry the fly, poles, and stakes.

Thanks for the advice. I've taken him to a local state park a couple times before for a short overnight, where he carried his sleeping bag and some water and a couple other small things. The last time out we did have a storm. He was in the tent, and I was testing my new hammock. Since I didn't have my tarp yet (it hadn't been delivered by go time), I just went into the tent with him. He was fine, just talkative (which is his normal self, lol).

I will say storms have never really bothered him, though.

Now I have a second hammock setup, so I'm going to set it up in the back yard and see how he likes it; if he does, he gets to use it.

As for the tent, my only tent is a two-man, and we both fit just fine inside with room for packs, etc. So if he doesn't like the hammock (which I cannot see why! ), that's what we'll do.

When I was twelve, I carried around a third of my body weight with no problems. I think I was about 90 or 95 lbs at the time, and highly motivated. For my son, I never had to load him up that much because our gear is so much lighter. But he was carrying all his own stuff, plus the lunch food, while I had the cooking gear and the rest of the food and the tent. I don't know what his pack weighed but I'd guess about 20 lbs or about 20% of his weight, so that is probably a good percentage to go with. Now that he is 17, an inch taller than me and a mountain bike racer, I figure he can carry all the food and the tent and the cooking gear and I'll just carry my clothes and sleeping bag. Payback!