hi all,first time post,i have recently started going lightweight,which for me used to be the talk of the devil,however, having seen the light or common sense of it all. i have reduced my 5 day pack from 65lbs to just over 40,i know this is probably still double what experienced lightweighters will carry,but im heading in the right direction,although i havnt started cutting labels and maps yet.im now looking to change my tent(3.5kg),sleeping bag(1.9kg)and backpack(2.55kg),these would have to cope with winter conditions(strong winds,rain and up to -10 temps or basically a normal scottish summers day),im getting confused with all the available gear out there and wondered if anybody could give me some advice on suitable equipment,any help would be much appreciated.

-10 C or F?

Hi Bill

It all depends on conditions. IN summer, in the Sierra, I can't imagine carrying a 7.5 pound tent...ours is closer to 3, and that's for two people. Your sleeping bag seems fine...and your pack also seems a bit heavy itself.

But what else are you carrying? Your big three right now add up to about 16 pounds, right? So the rest of your stuff weights 24+. Just as a comparision, when the two of us go for five days in the Sierra (again, in the summer!) we're carrying about 55 pounds between the two of us.

hi,in the pack is 5 days food which is around 8 lbs,a msr superfly with two gas cannisters(325g each),msr titan pot,spare clothing for winter inc hat gloves (4 lbs),my guilty pleasure an exped downmat 9 which i know is heavy at 2.6 lbs but its the only thing that allows me to sleep when out,i have a thermarest trail pro which didnt agree with my back and also tried the neoair which didnt suit,so the exped has to stay and would have to be prised away from my rotting corpse to get me to part with it.first aid kit(300g),wash kit,some survival items,torch,nalgene 1ltr water bottle,msr 4 ltr dromlite bag,mug and a msr miniworks filter(1.1lbs) which i could ditch and use tablets,insect repellant and a small radio,and thats about the lot,thanks again

I'm assuming your very heavy tent is a two-person tent; do you really need that extra space? (From the rest of your kit, it sounds like you pack for solo trips, and are not sharing gear with someone else?)

Could you get by with a "three-season" solo tent, like the MSR Hubba/Carbon Reflex 1 or Big Agnes Seedhouse 1/Fly Creek 1 tents? (Those are the two brands I'm familiar with; most manufacturers now have solo tents in their lines.) Depending on where you hike, you may not need the wind resistance and snow-loading abilities of a full-on four season tent.

As far as the pack, I can think of two things: 1) replace it last, after you've got everything else figured out, so you don't buy an unnecessarily large (and heavy) pack, and 2) don't get sucked into evaluating it only on weight. While packs can be significantly lighter if they're stripped of excess features (zippered sleeping bag compartments, numerous outside pockets, or needlessly heavy-duty fabric), they can also be made lighter by scrimping on suspension. So, a 2-pound pack that has a puny suspension may not comfortably carry the load you need to take. Again, in my own case, a 2-pound and 3-pound pack simply weren't comfortable; I'm now using a 4-pound pack that has a suspension that is perfect for me (although half a pound could be eliminated if the maker had left off the sleeping bag compartment.) To me, suspension is always the first consideration. As far as brands, my current favorite is the Osprey Kestrel 58; I've also had good luck with the Deuter ACT Zero 60+10 pack (though I found the shoulder straps a bit uncomfortable, and could never get the torso length tweaked right - I may dig it out and try again one of these days; it's a nice pack.) I went through a Granite Gear phase, too, but eventually decided their suspension just wasn't beefy enough for me. Pack comfort, like pad comfort, is highly individual - but you should be able to find a pack you like that is 4 pounds or less.

You've already made significant headway; for five-day trips, 30 pounds might be a reasonable lightweight target. (For what it's worth, I carry 21 pounds for two days; if I were to stretch that to 5 and add in some warm clothing, I'd be at 28 or 29 pounds.)

I also agree that you are heading in the right direction. At this point in your journey, I'd advise a bit of patience as well. I think that now would be a great time to pull out the scale and weigh all your remaining items on your five day list.
The weights of what you have should give you some insight on what is possible to change. You might very well have the correct gear, but now with some weights to compare, you can make some choices about possibly changing out specific pieces of gear, soley for their wieght savings. For example, you might have a perfectly fine fleece jacket, but compared to a synthetic fill jacket it might be twice the weight. These little items will make up your final weight savings.
Finally, I personally saved my biggest percentage of weight savings in my cook kit. I consistently carried a cook kit big enough for 4 people, and never really realized it until I weighed it out and compared it to what others were using. I did notice that you carried 2 cannisters for 5 days? I use one for a week? Water bottles and water storage seem to also be on the high side. Most of us have swapped out to "powerade" bottles, and dropped the very heavy nalgenes. Also, there are some very lightweight alternatives to large volume (4ltr) bladders for camp. Might check those out.
Keep going in the direction your going, you have alredy dropped your load almost 40%! as you narrow it down, the choices become more obvious, but the decisions become based more on your skills and possibly new techniques. Good Luck!

hi,it is a 2 man tent,it would have to put up with 70mph + winds at times and a lot of rain,snow now and again but not to the levels you would experience on your mountains,my pack is a berghaus c7 bioflex,which although heavy is very comfortable ,its a 65 +10 litre which is probably too much for what i take nowadays.

Bill,
I went back and read thru again your posts. I noticed that your view seems to be consistent with "worst case scenarios". I guess a good word picture would be to ask you if at home, when you leave the house in the summer, do you pile a bunch of winter gear in your car? And vice versa, in winter, do you take some shorts, and light shirts in case the sun comes out and it hits 70 degrees?
My point is that for each season there is a specific need. Its really not feasible, nor very reasonable to expect your gear to perform in these extremes and still be light weight. In fact, its your skill that is far more important than your gear when these situations occur. I don't care how bombproof your tent is, if you set it up in the open and get 70mph winds, its gonna blow up. Your skills and choices are much more important in the wild times than your gear.
My two cents worth is to plan well, but understand that you can only do so much, and that goes for your gear as well.

You may be chasing a will o' the wisp, to some degree, if you're looking for a single set of gear to meet as wide a range of conditions as you encounter. In truly foul weather, you may be glad you've got that bombproof 2-man tent (you may want some elbow room if you've got to stay put, and you may not want to trust storing your gear in a vestibule.) However, in nice summer weather, it's overkill. Same with your pack: it's too big for a lightweight summer load, but may be just right for winter gales.

You may want to consider having options for each trip - say, two tents, two packs, and maybe two or three sleeping bags. Then you can pick and choose to get the lightest load that is suitable for the conditions you expect on a given trip.

I'm lucky - in the lower East Central US, where I do all my hiking, there's not a huge variation in conditions (I stay home in heavy snow and bitter cold) so I can get by with a single set of all-purpose, fairly light gear - except that I still have 3 sleeping bags I match to expected conditions.

But it seems far more appropriate for you to have options for a lot of your gear - don't let lightweight become an end unto itself; that's a good way to get into trouble.

thanks steve and glen,helpful comments,the pack i described is for winter conditions,i do of course loose some of the weight in summer months,i agree that possibly getting a lighter tent/pack for spring/summer months may be a good idea,my equipment is as you said all geared towards the winter months,possibly because i have been out in some terrible weather before and been caught out with a tent that wasnt up to the job,so when replaced i have been getting the 'worse case senario' equipment and using it all year round

For winter, I think you are good to go. I wouldn't replace anything for winter. But, I would consider lighter options for the summer time. Also, as others have said, you need to weigh everything you have. You are at the point that if you want to loose weight, you need to know how much everything weighs, and decide what you want and what you don't want. You can also replace some things with lighter options and the same function. This can be a long process, and it really depends on you and dialing it in to your own personal tastes. You are starting off great, keep it up.

I'd look at getting a seperate gear list or set of gear for trips "not in winter" - I use very different, and much heavier gear in winter time than I do the rest of the year.

Bill, where and when in Scotland do you do most of your hiking and what are the conditions like.

I have been along the North Sea and conditions there were shall we say 'intimidating'. The Whites mountain range here in the US would be my most comparable conditions.

Not at all what I have here now.

hi,im in the s.west of scotland,i hike and camp all year round,more so in the winter/spring months as unfortunately i have to take the wife on her annual trip to spain in the summer,i travel up north sometimes in winter,but mostly in the southern uplands,in the past i have hiked all over bavaria in germany,the northern part of wales and also the lake and peak districts of england,if were lucky enough to get a summer here in scotland (which is rare) the weather from may/june til august can be quite nice,but outwith those months we can get a variety of driving rain,gale force winds and snow during the winter,just a few weeks ago i was out in 80mph winds and drenched with continuous rain for 24 hrs.i have also experienced the north sea whilst on route to norway,i was sick for 3 days - never again

Ahh, so you're up high in that windy moor stuff..

I use a lightweight single wall black diamond tent for such conditions here, where I expect the possibility of foul weather, no trees and blasting wind. My tent (the one-shot) is a one man job and is no longer made, however a very similar two man version is - the black diamond firstlight - 1.5 kilos, so that would save you a bunch on youre tent weight.

another good option, at a similar weight would be the Tarptent Scarp 2, I have a friend who got one of these, and with the crossing poles and properly staked out it both has tons of room in it for the weight, and takes a beating from the wind very well. The nice thing about the scarp is that if you don't expect to be setting up exposed you can leave the crossing poles at home and save weight as well.

I think if you hunt around you should be able to find a decent single wall fully supported shelter like that that will handle nasty wind conditions and still be well in the sub 2 kilo range. Tarptent has some lighter options if you want to go with a one person shelter.

Have a look at my gear list below for a few ideas.. perhaps, althought that is the "hammock version" of my list. For a typical "high altitude nasty weather but light" version of my packlist have a look here:

http://bofh.ucs.ualberta.ca/beck/pictures/whitegoat2010/gear.txt
and to see where that was going have a look here:
http://bofh.ucs.ualberta.ca/beck/pictures/whitegoat2010/

lets see:
Scotland
winter conditions - snow
driving rain
gale force winds
Cold

Folks this is not the time to be as conerned with weight as with survival.

Bill#1,
If you look at the winter camping section of these forums you will see that there are almost no posts there. Also look at the mountaineering section - again no posts - why? Because only a handful of us are climbers. You need mountaineering type gear - bombproof gear that won't fail you, NOT light weight gear. You may be looking in the wrong forums.

A two person tent is best for winter solo, and a 3 person for two people in the winter unless it has a massive vestibule for the gear. Summer solo tents let in spindrift through the screen, have inadequate poles for snow load, and in fact, they were not designed for ANY load at all on them, AND they are too small for all your winter gear. Not to mention what gale force winds would do to them - most people here have "forest caping gear" not mountain type above tree line gear.

In short - 40 pounds for weather like that is not too much. In fact you may need a tent costing over $500-$600 to be both lightweight and bombproof, like my Bibler ElDorado. I just pitched my TNF mountain24 on one of my decks in the rocks behind my house. My Bibler would have been up in 5 minutes, but at 4.5 pounds, the trade for its weight and strength is that it only has 2 poles and can flap in strong winds affecting my sleep. The Mountain 24 ( a double wall tent)took 35 minutes to set up in a driving wind and I know this tent and have set it up under similar conditions before. I HATE double wall tents. Well I love em when I'm inside, but like all backpacking trades, do you wanna like it because its light to carry, or because its warm and cozy in camp? In winter you have to go for warm and cosy in camp.
Jim

thanks for all the helpful comments,i have decided to buy some lightweight summer gear and keep the heavier stuff for the winter,thanks again ,bill