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#144205 - 12/31/10 11:49 PM 4 season tents
Becky Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 3
Loc: Minnesota
I'm looking to get a 4 season tent that will do well on places like mt. McKinley, price isn't a huge issue but still something to consider. I'm going a little bug-eyed after looking at so many tents, does anyone have advice to point me in the right direction? I have no knowledge about these types of tents smile. Thanks in advance.

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#144212 - 01/01/11 01:36 AM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Becky]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
My dad swears by his Hilleberg Akto. It's kinda-sorta lightweight, solo, rated for all seasons. The only downside I can see is its wide footprint (due to all the guylines). I think they have one or two lighter models now.

Tarptent makes one that seems to be strongly based on the Akto, and I believe it is 4 season also. They're known for making good lightweight tents; I have one of their Double Rainbows, and both my wife & I are happy with it.

One brand I have no experience with is Warmlite (Warmlight?). I think they are rated for all seasons. Might be worth checking out.

Are you looking for 1 person? Something larger? My only experience with severe weather & tents is that you need something that can handle high winds. This favors low tents with a lot of guylines. Another option is to get a bivy shelter; for years I used one from Integral Designs that I wouldn't hesitate to take mountaineering. They're not roomy, but they do very well in windy conditions. Bivies often have issues with keeping you dry and ventilated at the same time, so it's a good idea to do some research first before buying.

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#144214 - 01/01/11 04:04 AM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Becky]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I would start by contacting the guide services that run trips on Denali and ask them what they use. From what you have said, you are looking for an expedition mountaineering tent. If so, I would look at Bibler (owned by Black Diamond), Integral Designs, North Face (VE-25 or Mt. 25), Mountain Hardwear or something similar.

I'm only personally familiar with the TNF Mt. 25, but the others all make serious mountaineering tents. The Bibler and ID tents are single wall and look similar. If you are serious about high altitude mountaineering, I wouldn't buy anything that hasn't been used for expeditions on a regular basis. I've got a five pole double wall tent that looks similar to the Mt. 25, and is fine for winter in places like Yosemite, but I'm not sure it could withstand 125 mph winds.

You may want to ask on climbing forums like www.summitpost.org and see what people who climb big mountains regularly use. Here's a sample of what people recommend-
http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/best-2-person-mountaineering-tent-t56605.html
I recommend reading the other threads linked at the end of that one as well for other recommendations from real climbers (which I am not).

You might want to talk to these guys as well-
http://www.alaskamountaineering.com


Edited by TomD (01/01/11 04:30 AM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#144215 - 01/01/11 05:05 AM Re: 4 season tents [Re: TomD]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Some years ago, the NPS used VE-25s on Denali, as did a lot of other outfits. Check to see if there is something that replaces that tent, but it was really fine in wind, especially.

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#144219 - 01/01/11 01:07 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: oldranger]
Family Guy Offline
member

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 37
What your asking for is something more than a 4 season shelter. In fact, you are asking for an expedition tent robust for the most extreme conditions.

I agree with the above, that Hilleberg is a great place to start (www.hilleberg.com). I have the Akto and it is a great shelter, although you may need something with more snow loading performance (ie. the Soulo). These shelters are not cheap but have been proven in the worst conditions on Earth.

Others would be the Bibler / Black Diamond line (www.bdel.com) and Integral Designs MK line (www.integraldesigns.com). RAB out of the UK also makes excellent expedition tents (from what I have heard).

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#144221 - 01/01/11 02:08 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: TomD]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2861
Loc: Portland, OR
TomD seems to me to be on the right track. If this tent is destined to be used for high altitude mountaineering, then Becky is looking for a different animal than just a "4-season" tent. Under Denali conditions, a tent is more than a tent; it is a matter of survival.

Even if Becky is not going to be summiting Denali, then it would be worth contacting local guides, as TomD suggested. They can give her the skinny on the worst case scenario her tent would have to withstand.

Of the tents mentioned, the Akto may well be able to withstand Denali weather. I can't vouch for it other than by reputation, though.

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#144225 - 01/01/11 03:41 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: aimless]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
The Akto is a one person tent, so unless you are soloing, it doesn't sound too practical for an expedition. My tent is a two person tent and I solo with it in winter (not climbing, just snow camping).


Here is a story about a Denali guided climb by one of the members of VFTT with lots of pictures-the tents appear to be various models from Mountain Hardwear. This was a guided expedition with a bunch of people, including 4 guides.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kfolcik/sets/72157624059373849/with/4658431242/

Here's a picture of my tent at Yosemite-
http://www.backpacking.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=111764#Post111764


Edited by TomD (01/01/11 04:12 PM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#144228 - 01/01/11 04:07 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: TomD]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 998
Loc: Australia
The term "4 season" is used to describe a shelter that can handle from summer to winter weather in "average" conditions.
105f is not average and neither is 3 ' of snow. For those condition you need a well ventilated summer tent for the former and an expedition tent for the latter.
Going from a four season to an expedition type it means more poles . Typically 3 or more intersecting poles.
Tunnel tents can take a considerable amount of snow and wind but need a larger flat area to be set up than geodesic or more commonly semi geodesic designs.
As discussed in another forum neither the Akto nor the TT Scarp are expedition tents and as much as I have seen pics of a Warmlite up there you would need to really know what you are doing to use that. By that I mean to have lots of experience setting it up in difficult situations.
A simple 2 pole design like with the Bibler I/Eldorado/Awanee can do , a 3 pole with a built in vestibule like the Soulo (if you fit in) or the Allak would be easier .
However as suggested a solo tent for a beginner or anyone apart from some full time climbers, is not the way to go up there.

Franco

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#144229 - 01/01/11 04:12 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Becky]
KWeb Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 183
Loc: Tacoma, WA
Check out cascadeclimbers.com. This link will get you to the "Alaska" section of that site.

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/26/1/Alaska

Best to simplify your question.... "What (1, 2 or 3 man) tent do you reccomend on Denali for the (_____) route during (____) months?"

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#144232 - 01/01/11 07:51 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Becky]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.
The best 4 season tent in winter would be no contest as far as comfort goes, when compared to a closed in tarp with an inside chimney/stove. Not for weight or cost either.

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#144234 - 01/01/11 08:16 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: chimpac]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 998
Loc: Australia
Yes right...
You go up Denali with that set up.
Post pictures of it . I am willing to pay good money to see that.
BTW, don't forget to carry enough wood , it's a long way down to re-supply.
Franco

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#144235 - 01/01/11 08:23 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Franco]
Family Guy Offline
member

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 37
Me too. That would be quite the sight on Denali.

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#144238 - 01/01/11 08:55 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Family Guy]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 998
Loc: Australia
This may help a bit..
The nearest tree is about 14,000' down.


Franco

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#144239 - 01/01/11 10:31 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Franco]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.
OK,OK I do not see any trees for a wood fire but you can use a chimney on a gas stove. A 12 ounce chimney would let you cook safely inside and you could take your mitts off.

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#144240 - 01/01/11 10:55 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: chimpac]
KWeb Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 183
Loc: Tacoma, WA
Tent door and window partialy unzipped let me safely cook in my tent.

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#144248 - 01/02/11 08:42 AM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Franco]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.
Originally Posted By Franco
Yes right...
You go up Denali with that set up.
Post pictures of it . I am willing to pay good money to see that.
BTW, don't forget to carry enough wood , it's a long way down to re-supply.
Franco


Are you trying to insult me to make any argument you have
more credible?


Edited by chimpac (01/02/11 08:54 AM)

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#144251 - 01/02/11 12:34 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: chimpac]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Chimpac
I can cook safely inside my Bibler without a 12 oz pipe nor a fireproof hole in my tent. I suppose you could pack up a 40 bag of pellets for your stove haha. smile

A lot of people are stuck on one concept of winter camping. Canvas tents and stoves on flatland and forest only works in some places. Besides the rangers wouldn't let you light a wood fire anyway.

However as people have said - Denali and "4 season tent" are very different animals.
Jim


Edited by Jimshaw (01/02/11 12:35 PM)
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#144253 - 01/02/11 01:10 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Jimshaw]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.
Ha! Ha! I am so stupid. When people from wealthy countries take a better way of doing things to the third world to make their life better we think it is so ignorant for them not to accept our ways.I guess we can all be ignorant sometimes.
My daughter and her husband are climbing Aconcagua in Argentina this week. I have not converted my son in law to use a chimney yet but the group they are climbing with are using a separate cook tent with a chimney.



Edited by chimpac (01/02/11 01:24 PM)

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#144260 - 01/02/11 05:49 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: chimpac]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 998
Loc: Australia

Aconcagua is situated (not coincidentally..) within the AconcaguaProvincial Park .
There is a $500 fine for gathering and or burning wood within the park except for some ranger designated areas. Those change and are down in the low areas.
The peak is at 6962 m (22841') yep, its higher than Denali.
So wood burning there is not possible, not just not practical.
Franco
BTW, Denali has a lot harsher weather than Aconcagua and none of this has anything to do with the OP's question.

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#144267 - 01/02/11 11:00 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Franco]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.
Who said they were burning wood?
I do not know what kind of apparatus they are using but they will not be using wood.It is the guide's equipment so I am sure it would be gas of some kind.
Most native people above the tree line burn animal dung in tibet and mongolia.
A chimney can vent any kind of burned fuel.
It is not that complicated to hook a windscreen thing to a chimney and have the pot on the open flame of a gas stove sending the fumes up the chimney and then cover the hole when only heat is required.
I agree this is a long way from the subject of the thread.
It is about 4 season tents which are to heavy and a waste of money. A tarp and chimney/stove burning what ever fuel would be my choice for a comfortable trip.


Edited by chimpac (01/02/11 11:09 PM)

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#144283 - 01/03/11 02:25 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: chimpac]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By chimpac

I agree this is a long way from the subject of the thread.
It is about 4 season tents which are to heavy and a waste of money. A tarp and chimney/stove burning what ever fuel would be my choice for a comfortable trip.


Indeed chimpac - it is a long way off the subject of the thread - so you do kinda come off as a one horse broken record. A tarp shelter might be survivable in good weather somewhere like denali but a mountaineering tent is *NOT* a waste of money in such place - which is what the OP asked about. I'll take a tarp a lot of places, not somewhere like that - and advocating such a thing is plain dangerous - sorry - and that's why you're getting a a bit of a hard time from some people - who have been in such places.

I have no problem with you advocating your favorite rig, even if not my choice of rig - to the point where you are advocating someone do something dangerously risky. A tarp shelter in such a place is probably not a good idea.


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#144287 - 01/03/11 03:15 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: phat]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 998
Loc: Australia
Thanks for that Phat , on behalf of Becky not myself...
As you probably know I am with Tarptent however we don't have an expedition type shelter , the kind required "on places like McKinley".
Reading between the lines I got the impression that Becky is not in fact going to Denali but wants a somewhat safe enough shelter for something like that.
If Becky had stated that she was in fact going up there I would have strongly suggested to do a few excursions in much easier areas first then attempted to go up there with a guided group (tents provided) because if someone is not aware of the type needed up there they certainly should not be anywhere nearby by themselves or outside an organised expedition.
Franco
franco@tarptent.com

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#144288 - 01/03/11 03:25 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: phat]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
I agree Phat. I am a four-season tarper here in Colorado and would have zero problems taking my MLD Duo into most winter conditions. However for true mountaineering locations such as Denali, I wouldn't even consider bringing my Duo for some of the conditions that they can experience at those altitudes.

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#144291 - 01/03/11 04:10 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: Becky]
Loomis Offline
member

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 35
Loc: Milwaukie, Oregon USA
Does anyone have experience with the High Peak line of 4 season tents? I have been looking at the South Col model (http://www.highpeakusa.org/South_Col.html). It looks to be a good value but obviously not as sturdy as a $400-$500 tent. There is a distributor in Oregon that has it for $135 shipped.
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If it's not work I love it! Browse my adventures.

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#144295 - 01/03/11 04:55 PM Re: 4 season tents [Re: phat]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.
Originally Posted By phat
Originally Posted By chimpac

I agree this is a long way from the subject of the thread.
It is about 4 season tents which are to heavy and a waste of money. A tarp and chimney/stove burning what ever fuel would be my choice for a comfortable trip.


Indeed chimpac - it is a long way off the subject of the thread - so you do kinda come off as a one horse broken record. A tarp shelter might be survivable in good weather somewhere like denali but a mountaineering tent is *NOT* a waste of money in such place - which is what the OP asked about. I'll take a tarp a lot of places, not somewhere like that - and advocating such a thing is plain dangerous - sorry - and that's why you're getting a a bit of a hard time from some people - who have been in such places.

I have no problem with you advocating your favorite rig, even if not my choice of rig - to the point where you are advocating someone do something dangerously risky. A tarp shelter in such a place is probably not a good idea.

A tarp that is plain dangerous, what tarp are you talking about? Dangerously risky, like no floor, or the pegs might pull out.What is it.
Those that have been such places, make some sense here, blizzard -30C. I do not have to go far to find hostile weather.


Edited by chimpac (01/03/11 05:05 PM)

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