Been lurking the forums here for a while now, let me explain what’s going on…
A few months ago I decided I wanted to get into hiking and backpacking. Nothing major, just day hikes and maybe some 2-3 day trips at most (42 year old male, not in the best of shape). These hikes would be mostly in the Los Padres national forest here in Southern California. I started researching gear and have made most of my purchases over the last month or so.
My first concern regarding gear was foot ware. I decided I wanted to go with a mid-weight hiking boot, so I bought a pair of Vasque Breeze Gore-Tex XCR hiking boots. Size 10.5, fit seems fine. Not too tight (I can push my foot forward and then push my index and middle finger into the boot behind my heel, which I read is one way to test the fit), and not too loose. I also bought Superfeet orange inserts, Smartwool hiking socks and REI SilkOne liners. Every evening I go for a brisk 2.5 mile walk in my neighborhood, and I wore the boots several times on my walk to help break them in. Sometimes I would feel a mild hot-spot on the back of my heel, but no blister or anything ever developed.
So, last Saturday I went on my first hike with the boots on. This was a 6 mile total hike (3 miles in, 3 miles out) to a little campground in the Los Padres forest on the Piedra Blanca trail. While going in, there was about 1,100 feet elevation gain, with most of it being on about the last 1 mile before my destination. This was the first time I used the boots on an incline. By the time I reached my destination the backs of my heels were burning pretty good. I took the boots and socks off to have a look (I should have done this sooner). My right heel wasn’t too bad, but the left heel had a nickel-sized area on the back of it where the outer layer of skin was basically worn off. It wasn’t a blister (or at least by this time it wasn’t), it was just a raw, painful patch of skin. I had taken some Dr Scholls blister pads and mole skin with me, so I applied those and then made my way back. I’m still wearing the blister pads on the left heel while it heals up.
My question now is, what do I do going forward about these boots? Is this a normal break-in occurrence? Will my heels callous over and that will fix the problem? Should I apply mole skin and/or blister pads before wearing the boots? Or are these boots simply not going to work for me? I hate to think I just have to toss the boots, because I really don’t want to keep spending $100-200 trying out boots again and again. My enthusiasm is really starting to drain away thinking of this.
#138827 - 09/15/1001:59 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: Rayman1968]
billstephenson Moderator
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
That's a tough one. I've never had that problem, but I'll offer this...
Take the boots back to the store you bought them from and ask to exchange them for a different pair, and offer, right away, to pay the difference if the pair you choose is more expensive.
Explain the problem if they ask why you want to exchange them. My guess is that they'll do that for you without a problem.
Then try on every boot in the style you want in the store and walk around in them a bit. If a pair feels good, set them aside. After you've tried them all on, go back and compare the pairs you've set aside again. Select the pair that feels the best.
An expensive pair of hiking boots made with newer, lighter, materials should not need to be "Broke in". They should fit and feel as good as they ever will, and then start wearing out. If a salesman tells you that your $120+ boots need breaking in, don't buy them, he's wrong and only cares about the sale.
I tried your method to test the fit on my boots and it seems pretty accurate. But I will say that how tight you lace your boots will make a big difference on how they feel.
I also tested my laces using the same method, pulling the laces where they are tied together and place my forefinger under them. I had about 1 inch total of slack there.
I know that if mine are laced too tight they get uncomfortable and will even cause ingrown toenails on my big toe. I would suppose that if they were too loose (or to tight) you might get the rubbing you experienced, so you might want to adjust your laces and test them again before you bring them back.
But don't let this deter you, I've hiked a lot in the Los Padres NF and loved every mile and minute of it. (Never on the Piedra Blanca trail though, where's that?)
I bought the boots from a small local shop that actually has a very poor selection of boots, so I doubt they'd have anything I'd want to trade for. I was surprised they had the Vasque Breeze in stock in my size. I went looking all over that day and no one else had them.
The problem only seems to happen while going uphill. Maybe I'll try removing the Superfeet inserts and go with the stock ones and see what happens. Looks like I may have to start over with another pair of boots though.
Not sure what parts of the Los Padres you're familiar with, but the Piedra Blanca trail starts near Lockwood Valley road off of HWY 33(Ventura County), goes over Pine Mountain, and ends near Lions Camp in Rose Valley. I think it might also be called the Gene Marshall trail.
#138835 - 09/15/1002:58 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: Rayman1968]
Heather-ak
member
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Ray,
I know that everytime I get a new pair of shoes or boots they do hit my foot/legs at different spots than the old. I know particularly for higher boots this is an issue.
Though, when I bought my Merrell's I never got a blister... Not sure why. I primarily wear a really thin smartwool liner (the black ones.)
Do you wear boots to work normally? If you normally wear dress shoes to work, then wear a boot to hike... totally different tough spots on your feet...
(I normally wear sneakers hiking or the Merrell's which are lower.)
#138838 - 09/15/1003:17 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: Rayman1968]
Pika
member
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I used to have that problem early in the season when I used to hike in climbing boots. The soles of climbing boots tend to be stiff causing sliding between the back of your boot and the back side of your heel. My solution was simply to run a strip of 1 1/2 inch wide athletic tape from the bottom of my heel, around the corner and about 5 inches up the back. If I did this before any hike/climb, I never had problems with blisters on the back of my heel. As the season progressed, I found that I could dispense with the tape.
Also, you may want to try hiking without liner socks. Get a pair of Smartwool midweight hiking socks and try them. For me they work better w/o liners than they do with. I use trail runners for all my hiking now and wear them with the midweight Smartwools; I haven't had a blister in five years.
You also might want to make sure the socks, particularly the liners, are the right size. You want a pretty snug fit on the liner socks, so they move with your foot. That way, it's the liner socks that take the friction with the outer socks. If the liners are too loose, you just end up getting a blister from the friction between the liner and your foot.
Mentioning the liners though does make me wonder. They don't really fit loose, but I wonder why my foot is taking the friction instead of them. Something else to look into I guess.
#138852 - 09/15/1006:27 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: Rayman1968]
finallyME
member
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Man, gortex boots in a dry environment. Anyways, I agree with Pika. Tape your foot or wear liner socks. Both methods have worked for me as well. If I ever feel the slightest warm spot, I immediately tape it.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.
Was talking to the 'shoe guy' at REI today after work. After explaining the situation to him, he's suspicious of the Superfeet insert not cupping my heel in the right spot and suggested trying the stock insole and see what happens.
I was also checking out the Merrel Moab Ventilator cross-trainer while I was there. For some reason, I feel I should be using something 'beefier' on my feet (inexperienced thinking?), but they might be something I'll try out.
How heavy is your pack? I carry 20 pounds for a weekend; 25 for a long weekend. I wear the Vasque Breeze low-cut trail shoes, and have never had a problem with them. For winter, I switch to the Vasque Sundowner ankle-high boots; no problems there, either.
For loads under 25 or 30 pounds, on "normal" trails, trail shoes should be fine most of the time.
#138949 - 09/17/1006:28 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: Rayman1968]
phat Moderator
Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Rayman1968
Hi Everyone,
Been lurking the forums here for a while now, let me explain what’s going on…
A few months ago I decided I wanted to get into hiking and backpacking. Nothing major, just day hikes and maybe some 2-3 day trips at most (42 year old male, not in the best of shape). These hikes would be mostly in the Los Padres national forest here in Southern California. I started researching gear and have made most of my purchases over the last month or so.
My first concern regarding gear was foot ware. I decided I wanted to go with a mid-weight hiking boot, so I bought a pair of Vasque Breeze Gore-Tex XCR hiking boots. Size 10.5, fit seems fine. Not too tight (I can push my foot forward and then push my index and middle finger into the boot behind my heel, which I read is one way to test the fit), and not too loose. I also bought Superfeet orange inserts, Smartwool hiking socks and REI SilkOne liners. Every evening I go for a brisk 2.5 mile walk in my neighborhood, and I wore the boots several times on my walk to help break them in. Sometimes I would feel a mild hot-spot on the back of my heel, but no blister or anything ever developed.
So, last Saturday I went on my first hike with the boots on. This was a 6 mile total hike (3 miles in, 3 miles out) to a little campground in the Los Padres forest on the Piedra Blanca trail. While going in, there was about 1,100 feet elevation gain, with most of it being on about the last 1 mile before my destination. This was the first time I used the boots on an incline. By the time I reached my destination the backs of my heels were burning pretty good. I took the boots and socks off to have a look (I should have done this sooner). My right heel wasn’t too bad, but the left heel had a nickel-sized area on the back of it where the outer layer of skin was basically worn off. It wasn’t a blister (or at least by this time it wasn’t), it was just a raw, painful patch of skin. I had taken some Dr Scholls blister pads and mole skin with me, so I applied those and then made my way back. I’m still wearing the blister pads on the left heel while it heals up.
My question now is, what do I do going forward about these boots? Is this a normal break-in occurrence? Will my heels callous over and that will fix the problem? Should I apply mole skin and/or blister pads before wearing the boots? Or are these boots simply not going to work for me? I hate to think I just have to toss the boots, because I really don’t want to keep spending $100-200 trying out boots again and again. My enthusiasm is really starting to drain away thinking of this.
Anyone have any advice for me?
Thanks.
Ray
Did you remove the stock footbed an put in your superfeet insoles? or did you put the insoles over the top of the footbed.
The reason I ask is that many people (and I say this from long ago experience when I did such a thing, so I'm not calling you stupid or anything) make the mistake of jamming in a thick insole to a good pair of boots thinking it will make them more comfortable - when what they have then managed to do is raise the back of the foot so that it no longer fits into the heel cup. the result is... slippage, and rubbing on the back of the foot.
Failing that, you either did not have them tightened enough to keep your feet in the back of them, or they just don't fit properly for you. Try something else, or a different size.
I've gone through a bunch of shoes and boots. Past two years I have made it through a lot of miles and crazy terrain without a blister - sometimes I feel a bit of a hot spot, usually in the same spots (outer edge of pinky toe, top of the right big toe). A little sticky tape over the spot for those long 14-20 mile days does the trick, eases the heat and never blisters.
I have used Moab Ventilators and sold them - I was getting very footsore in them. The sole was too flexible for me. I hike on a lot of granite and root-ridden trail (plus off trail) and the shoes did seem very ... well, not durable. But none of the light trail runner/mid height boots you will find for $50-150 are going to be really durable and long lasting. There isn't a break in time for them, and they will start to come apart within 500 miles or so.
My current favorites are Montrail Wildwood TRs. Light, non goretex, grippy with great traction, no troubles once I slap some Superfeet in them. They fit my feet like gloves, but don't rub anywhere.
Your best shoes will fit your feet without slopping around, with plenty of room in the toe box so you can go downhill without toe bang, and protect the bottom of the foot. Ankle support is a myth with lightweight hiking boots. You don't get any unless you get bomber full height boots. I found that my ankles only bruised and hurt with full height boots, so stick with trail runners and a pair of Asolo FSN non-gore for rough work.
I measured consistently as a women's size 10.5-11. I now wear (after many blisters) size 10.5 mens shoes for hiking. This is TOO BIG OMG according to People Who Know, but as I mention above - they work for me. They don't feel too big and they don't blister anywhere. I resorted to going in and trying on every friggin' shoe in the store until I found one that fit my foot without rubbing somewhere, without the heel popping up when I walked, and had a good tough sole that would keep my feet protected. I ended up in men's with a huge shoe that worked for two years until my feet changed shape from all the hiking.
Don't give up - try on shoes. I have met men who found women's shoes actually work better. Every foot/feet are different.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
BTW... I'm going out to Willetts this Friday. Want to come? Sounds like (if you really need 10.5) I could loan you shoes.
I wear wool socks always, different weights for different seasons. Synthetics give me hot spots in new and interesting places. Wool or wool blend don't. Used to use liners but have not needed them for a long time...
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
Yeah, I passed on the Moab Vents at the advice of the shoe guy at REI. I'm now trying a pair of Lowa Renegades (recommended by 3 people that were in the store) . They have gore-tex though, this is a bad thing?
Willets? Willets Camp on the Sespe? I was on that trail for the first time trying out the Lowas last Saturday (no blisters or hot spots, but I did put moleskin on my heels). I didn't go as far as Willets though. I only went about 3.5 miles from the trail head near the parking lot and then headed back. I didn't know if there was anything along the trail worth seeing any further down. Fresh bear tracks all over that trail btw.
What's Willets like? Is it a decent place to camp? I'll take any and all 'trail advice' for the area I can get. I plan on going to the visitor center at Wheeler Gorge this Saturday. They're supposed to have some good trail guides/maps there from what I hear.
#139128 - 09/21/1011:27 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: Rayman1968]
Richardvg03
member
Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 276
Loc: San Diego, Ca
Originally Posted By Rayman1968
I really don’t want to keep spending $100-200 trying out boots again and again.
Buy at REI and you can always return them, no questions asked.
Also, I've never heard of the "Finger behind the heel" thing... my hiking/combat boots have always felt snug with minimum to NO movement which will prevent that. Blisters are basically where a certain location of your foot rubs up against part of your boot. You can also just wear mole skin every time you hike which will be a pain.
_________________________
Sgt. Richard V. Gilbert USMC Retired Scout/Sniper
Already getting notifications to be more "gentle"..??
#139693 - 10/01/1007:42 AMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: Rayman1968]
gorge_medic
member
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Kentucky
GTX isn't necessarily a bad thing, very user-dependant. Personally I shy away from them because they make my feet VERY sweaty; I also hike in the hot, humid SE US. It basically comes down to what works for you.
And yes, getting that magic combination of footwear, sock, insert (possibly), and other stuff can be a slow, epensive, and sometimes painful process
My best advice is to really, REALLY pay attention to your discomfort the next time you're on the trail. Where precisely does the pain come from, and what on the shoe corresponds to that? I recently had a problem with raw spots forming on my heels. I was able to trace it back to a rough seam where the heel cup attached to the uppers. Some duct tape over the seam fixed the problem nicely for me.
Remember that blisters and raw spots are a combination of three things; friction, moisture and heat. Fix one source, and your chances of getting a blister is really reduced. Fix two sorces, and it's almost impossible to get them. In addition to looking at your footwear and socks, you might consider using friction-reducing tapes, lubricants, or both.
I have been sticking with Danner boots for years. I have worn several pairs of light boots for backpacking and early hunting season and use heavier ones in the cold winter months. I generally give then a light break in period around town and the house and then to the field. I do not spare expense on a good pair of socks either.
What's Willets like? Is it a decent place to camp? I'll take any and all 'trail advice' for the area I can get. I plan on going to the visitor center at Wheeler Gorge this Saturday. They're supposed to have some good trail guides/maps there from what I hear.
Thanks.
Willetts is a hot spring, with a large tub that was trucked in (I suspect while the trail was still a road) - marvelous way to end a day of hiking. Six miles further is sespe hot spring, a series of shallow tubs down a hillside - the spring is so hot you have to let creek water mix with the spring water so you can sit without scalding.
Spring or late winter is better - the creek was completely dry when we went, and early afternoon temps hit 100F, and the other options are high alkali springs dribbling down the side canyons... alkali will give you unpleasant intestinal woes. There is a faucet that taps a freshwater spring at Willetts camp. When the creek is flowing there are glorious swimming holes to play in.
And yeah, there are bear tracks - but I doubt you'll see a Sespe bear. They are very shy. We also saw mountain lion tracks, horned toads, and a three and a half foot rattlesnake.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
I'm not sure about that two finger behind the heel technique. I look for a shoe/boot that has a "heel pocket" that holds my heel in place, where my heel doesn't rise as my boot heel lifts off the ground. I like as tight a fix as I can lenghtwise without my toes hitting the front of my boots on a downward incline. I use a Scarpa Kailash GTX for wet contitions but I usually use a low top runner/approach shoe for moderate conditions. I like the 5.10 approach shoes, but don't get hung up on make/model. The VERY best thing you can do for yourself is find a store that has competent shoe fitters and become a loyal customer. There's alot to fitting shoes and a well trained expert is a valuable resource. Hiking shoes are like a wife, choose wisely.
#140732 - 10/18/1007:53 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: lori]
Trailrunner
member
Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Hey Lori,
I was going to PM you about this but others may be interested too:
I'll be at Willet HS next month. Did you camp there? If so, you were you hanging or were you a ground dweller? Would you recommend a hammock for that place? I have camped at several other locations along the Sespe and some were not suitable for hanging. Thanks in advance for any info.
_________________________ If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*
* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.
I was going to PM you about this but others may be interested too:
I'll be at Willet HS next month. Did you camp there? If so, you were you hanging or were you a ground dweller? Would you recommend a hammock for that place? I have camped at several other locations along the Sespe and some were not suitable for hanging. Thanks in advance for any info.
If you are camping right along Sespe Creek, which is where most of the campsites are, there are trees. First time I went out there I took a tent, the second time I took the hammock with a pad setup. Since it was over 50F at night and 100F during the day, and we found a 3.5' rattlesnake right at the spot we wanted to camp, I very much appreciated the hammock.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
#140858 - 10/20/1009:24 PMRe: New guy with boot issues/questions
[Re: lori]
Trailrunner
member
Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Thanks Lori. The Sespe is almost in my back yard and I try to go there once/year. It's navigable by kayak for a few days per year during the rainy season. That would be a wild ride!!
_________________________ If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*
* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.
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