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#138768 - 09/14/10 11:28 AM Critique gear list for up coming trip please...
NJDrew Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 4
So as I posted in the Trip Planing section, I am coordinating a fishing trip to the Bob Marshall wilderness in late July 2011. I have minor hiking experience, so I got put in charge of planning everything crazy When I was a younger fitter man I did a trek in Philmont, NM so this gear list is based on that BSA list with some modification. This list is mostly just suggestions for the rest of the group, since most of them have less hiking experience than I do. I realize that this is more than most of you would carry, but is there anything on here that is a complete waste? Am I missing anything vital?

Planned for 9 days Back Country.

PERSONAL EQUIPMENT
(All weights are approx)

Gear:
Hiking pack with padded hip belt
capacity: external frame–4500 cubic inches +
internal frame–5200 cubic inches +
(6 lb 3oz)
Pack cover–waterproof nylon (If it doesn’t come with the pack)
12 1-gallon Zip Lock plastic bags to pack clothes (3.6 oz)
Sleeping bag in stuff sack (lined with plastic bag if possible) (rated to 40 degrees) (5 lb)
Foam sleeping pad (closed cell or Therma-Rest)(2 lb)
Small Tent (1-2 persons) (5 lb)
Metal tent stakes (1 lb)
Waterproof ground cloth (7 oz)

Clothing:
Hiking boots or Lightweight sneakers (Must be well broken in)
2 pairs of heavy socks (7 oz)
3 pairs lighter socks (5 oz)
3 changes underwear (5 oz)
2 short sleeve shirts (4 oz)
1 hat or cap–flexible, with brim (2 oz)
1 long sleeve shirt (wool or flannel) (2 oz)
3 long pants, convertible(3 lb)
1 pair insulated underwear (polypro) (1 lb)
1 sweater or jacket (wool / polar fleece / rain jacket) (1 lb)
1 stocking cap (2 oz)
Sleep clothes–worn only in sleeping bag (T-shirt and gym shorts) (1 lb)

Fishing Equipment:
Try to slim it down as much as possible.
Do not pack waders & boots. Get wading shoes or water shoes.
Leave the fly vests home and use your pockets and/or the enclosure from a camel back.
Recommended Gear:
Rod and Real w/ Fly Line etc.
Flies in 1 Fly box
Sink & Flotant
Forcepts
Leaders & Tippet
Weights
Strike Indicators


Personal and Miscellaneous
Mess-Kit (1 lb 4.5 oz)
2 or 3 one qt. water bottles (Camel back and one bottle will work too) (1.5 lb empty, 10.5 lb full)
Pocketknife (3 oz)
Headlamp (w/ extra set of batts)(3 oz)
3 bandannas or handkerchiefs (2 oz)
Lip balm / chapstick
Soap (Unscented & Biodegradable)(4 oz)
Deoderant (Unscented) (2 oz)
Toothbrush/toothpaste (Just enough for a week) (5 oz)
Ditty bag (for personal items in bear bag)(4.2 oz)
Food bag (for personal items in bear bag)(4.2 oz)

Total Weight = 42.84 lbs (not including fishing equip, group equip & food)

Optional:

1 sturdy rainsuit (1.5 lb)
1 glove liners or mittens (wool or polypro) (2 oz)
Sunglasses (inexpensive)
Camera
Watch, inexpensive
Note pad and pen
Day pack for side hikes (1 lb)
Crazy Creek seat / Stools
Matches and lighter in waterproof container
Straps to hold sleeping bag on pack (if needed)
French Press / Coffee / Powder Creamer / Sugar (For packing I would suggest filling the cups with coffee ground)


GROUP EQUIPMENT
Compass
Toilet paper in Zip Lock bag
Personal first aid kit
60 ft. of rope (bear line & misc)
Rubber bands / Zip Ties (large for packing) (Optional)
Foot powder (optional)
Insect repellent (non aerosol) (unscented)
Sunscreen at least 30 SPF
Small camp trowel
Water Purification (This)
Dehydrated Food and Drink Mix (One person will order for everyone)
2 5 gal Water containers
GPS Unit (Optional)
Tarp
Salt, Pepper, Cooking Spices.
Parachute cord (550 cord) 200’
100mph tape


Edited by NJDrew (09/14/10 11:30 AM)

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#138777 - 09/14/10 12:46 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: NJDrew]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
It is difficult to know just where to start the critique of your gear list. As a blanket statement, I think you could cut your 42 lb base weight (all your gear w/o food and water)in half without loss of any comfort or safety. What you need to do to do this is to look at some of the gear lists that are posted on this site. These will give you some idea of what other experienced lightweight backpackers take.

To find the gear lists, go to the home page of this site, look on the left side under gear checklists and compare what you plan to take with what others find necessary.

I am certainly not the lightest weight hiker posting on this board but I seldom carry more than 12 lb of gear unless I need a bear canister. All my hiking is in the western mountains in spring, summer and fall. I hiked the John Muir Trail in California in 2008 with a base weight of 16 lb including bear canister and I was 21 days on the trail and one ten day stretch without resupply.

You plan nine days out so you will probably need to carry 1.5 to 2 lb of food per day. That will add another 13.5 to 18 pounds to your first day pack weight. Add 2-4 lb of water and you will be leaving the car carrying between 57.5 and 64 lb not counting your fishing gear and whatever group and optional gear you plan to take along. I don't know about you, but I couldn't cover more than a few miles with all that on my back.

Some suggestions for a lighter load.
1) Get a lighter pack. I have carried ten days of food in my Golite Quest (4000 cu in) and it weighs half what you list, has hip belts and load lifters. -3.3 lb

2) Drop the pack cover, just line your pack with a trash compactor bag for waterproofing. One to fit a large pack weighs 2.4 oz.

3) If you can afford it, get a bag like the Marmot Helium. This weighs right around 2 lb and is good to 20°F. -3 lb

4) A 3/4 length closed cell sleeping pad only weighs 6 oz. You can get a 3/4 length Thermarest Prolite 3 that weighs 13 oz while a 3/4 length Thermarest that is 2" thick weighs 23 oz. You know what you need to sleep but you don't need a full length pad.

5) You can get tents that weigh a bit over 2 lb for one person and a bit over three pounds for two. Check out some of the offerings by Tarptent, Six Moons Designs, Big Agnes, REI and MSR for lighter tents. You can get a light one person tent for about $200. Get light tent stakes; I carry eleven of them at about 3 oz.

6) Drop the 12-1 gallon bags, rely on the trash compactor bag liner for waterproofing. Same thing with the stuff sack for your sleeping bag. Just stuff it into the pack and let it fill any empty corners. But, you may want a stuff sack to use as a clothing stuffed pillow.

7) If you have a waterproof floor on your tent, you don't need a water proof ground cloth. Either do without or get a sheet of 2 mil polyethylene sheet. 2 oz.

8) You are taking way too many clothes. For a nine day trip, you don't need three pair of pants, three changes of underwear, two short sleeve shirts, a long sleeve shirt (especially flannel) or a lot of the other clothing changes you propose. You should plan on taking one pair of pants and just letting them get dirty although you can wash them and wear your gym shorts while they are drying. You can get away with one base layer (wool or capilene) T-shirt, one light nylon long-sleeved shirt, a fleece jacket (100 wt is good) and an insulated jacket (down or synthetic). For underwear, take one set and go commando while you are rinsing your undies. Take one extra pair of socks. Most modern midweight socks are about 2.5 oz per pair and do not need liners. Boots or trail running shoes are your decision but boots tend to weigh about twice what the shoes do, they dry slower and don't provide any more safety or traction.

9) Your mess gear is heavy. You should be able to keep all of your cooking gear below a pound unless you are into gourmet cooking.

10) Use soda water or Gaitoraide bottles for water. They weigh about 1.5 oz ea. You could also get some of the Platypus collapsible 2-3 liter bottles. They weigh less than 2 oz ea.

11) You can cut weight on almost everything in your Personal and Miscellaneous category by taking only the amount you will need. A 0.5 oz hotel size bar of soap should easily last 9 days. Do you really need deodorant? Take tooth-powder, a 3 week supply only weighs 0.5 oz. Take one bandanna and wash it periodically. Use the same ideas on all the other stuff.

I didn't mean to go on so long but the thought of the potential load you would be carrying sort of made me wince. I hiked the John Muir Trail without resupply in 1954 and my starting weight for 20 days was 48 pounds; just a bit more than your base weight but I was carrying all my food too. You can really prune a lot of weight from your proposed list and still be safe and comfortable. I am sure that many others on this forum will have better suggestions than I am offering. Please consider their advice.

Oh, your trip sounds great1 I envy you. I haven't been in the Bob Marshall area in 35 years.
_________________________
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#138778 - 09/14/10 01:42 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: Pika]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I totally agree with Pica. You really need to think about how much of what you bring you will actually use. And with clothing, plan to do laundry during the trip. Just make sure you and your partners are not doubling and tripling up on stuff. example; my last trip I went with two inexperienced packers, who, among other things brought full bottles of Dr Bronners soap. I brought a half bottle. Needless to say we used less than a quarter bottle between us over 8 days...we didn't need three bottles of soap. I ended up renting a 2 man tent that included ground cloth and tent stakes that weighed just under 5 lbs. Shed unnessary weight any where you find it! Remember, there are things you want to bring and things you need to bring. Stools...that is the other good use for bear cannisters!


Edited by skcreidc (09/14/10 01:45 PM)

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#138787 - 09/14/10 05:19 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: skcreidc]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Like Pika, I'm not sure where to start. All of your gear, without exception as far as I went down your list, is far too heavy. As Pika said, most of your gear items are double the weight that most of us carry, which is why he said you could easily cut your pack weight in half. You and your friends will swear off backpacking for good if you try to carry so much!

Link to the articles on the home page of this site. Read the articles in the left-hand column, especially this one. This one article helped me reduce my pack weight by more than half. I can now go out for 10 days with a 28 lb. total pack weight without sacrificing either comfort or safety. That includes fishing gear and clothing/gear suitable for the northern Rockies (see next paragraph).

In the area of things lacking, you are obviously packing for desert New Mexico and not for the northern Rockies. Where you are going, daily thunderstorms--usually several of them--are a given. Below-freezing nights and light snow are common. Rain gear is essential, not optional, and you need a sleeping system (bag/pad combo plus clothing worn inside) that will get you down to 25*F. Wearing your insulating clothing inside the bag will help, but it won't be enough to keep you warm inside a 40* sleeping bag.

For an idea of what's available in each gear category, from the latest technology to low-budget alternatives, try this site.

Even the Boy Scouts have lightened up! This article might give you more ideas. Just remember that you'll be where nights are in the mid 20's to low 30's, not the 40's.


Edited by OregonMouse (09/14/10 05:24 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#138798 - 09/14/10 09:18 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: NJDrew]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
You have way too much stuff. I can't figure out what most of it is for. Who needs 200 ft of parachute cord? Or even 60 ft. of some other kind of rope? Where did you get this gear list? I spent 6 months in New Zealand with far less than this, including my bike and tools.

You need to read something like The Complete Walker IV, look at a lot of gear lists-some are linked here from the Home Page and can easily be found on other websites. I doubt seriously I could even pick up a pack with all of that in it, let along walk anywhere with it.
_________________________
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#138800 - 09/14/10 10:07 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: OregonMouse]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Didn't really have time to collect my thoughts earlier. Pica and OregonMouse have given you a lot of good info. I am not ultra light...a lot of my gear is from the late 1960's. Even so, on my last trip my pack weighed about 45 pounds (everything included) for an 8 day trip into the sierra. I carried for myself and a dog(she carried her food)including a tent. So here are a few more independent thoughts. All these people have developed their packing list OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. Since your trip is in 2011, you have time to do some overnite test runs after you come up with a final draft of your list. These test runs will also help you sort your feet and first aid kit out. For me these items go hand and hand. I generally bring a larger first aid kit than most, but over the last 40+ years I have used everything at least once on either myself or someone else.

If I am with a group, we generally consolidate stuff so we are not duplicating. If your feet develop hot spots, by all means be prepared for that. But don't have everybody carry a full first aid kit. On my last trip, my partners added things after the weigh in a week before the start date. This included spare tennis shoes, food (lots of food), walkie talkies, lavender scented soap, the list goes on ...



OK, the point is that deodorant may be a got to have for some people, but I'm thinking this is a very small minority. Everybody is different. A little experience will help tailor the list to your needs for comfort. It really is up to each person as to what is important for any given trip. Hey, when I was in my twenties and backpacking in the snow, we brought along 2 cases of beer. At the time it seemed important and it was a great trip. I wouldn't do it again, scotch is much more weight/effective and lasts longer. Remember, loose weight wherever you can...but be prepared for the weather.


Edited by skcreidc (09/14/10 10:10 PM)

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#138803 - 09/15/10 12:05 AM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: NJDrew]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By NJDrew

Total Weight = 42.84 lbs (not including fishing equip, group equip & food)


Ouch. Just looking at that number makes my legs hurt. And if you add food (reasonable estimate 2 lbs/day x 9 days = 18 lbs), water, a stove and fuel, which you didn't mention, all that fishing gear and your share of the group equipment I'll guess you're approaching 70 pounds.

Random suggestions in no particular order:

Waaaaay too much clothing. One pair of pants and some shorts will do. Too many socks. You don't need dedicated sleep clothes. Use whatever is clean. Your rain gear can be your jacket too. Think multiple use. If you're out for nine days wash a few items every day and rotate them. If they're not dry when you break camp strap them to your pack. People do the JMT (211 miles) on two pairs of socks and one pair of pants. Not including consumables e.g. food and fuel, my pack weight is not much more for 10 days than it is for 3 days.

5 pounds is a lot for one person's shelter. Consider sharing a tent or finding a lighter one. That alone will hack pounds off your back.

5 pounds is also very heavy for a 40 degree bag. There are inexpensive 40 degree bags out there that weigh much less.

One pound of stakes is very heavy. Bring along only as many as the tent needs. Use aluminum, not steel. They're cheap. Stakes even for a two man tent should only be 4-6 ounces.

If you must use a ground cloth under your tent, and many don't, just use a cheap thin painter's drop cloth. That's half the weight you listed.

Use the day pack as the stuff sack for your sleeping bag. Think multiple use.

Honestly, with a base weight as high as yours right now, I would seriously consider ditching luxuries like the chair and the coffee press.

If you can't hack at least 20 pounds off your present total load I would strongly recommend the use of hiking poles. You'll need them to balance all that weight. A 70 pound pack may feel bearable and maybe not that bad in your living room. It may even feel OK for the first few miles. But the weight WILL take its toll and it WILL make you hurt. You didn't mention what kind of training you do or what physical shape you're in but carrying a pack that heavy for 36 miles (18 each way per your other post) could even result in a knee or back injury for a person who is not prepared.

Think not only in terms of what you need, but in what you don't need. And remember that you posted on a lightweight site. Your base weight is at least twice what some here consider to be a practical.

Edit: After reading your post in the trip planning section I modified a few lines to reflect the fact that you're going to base camp and not hike terribly far. I that situation a few luxury items may be in order......so long as your base weight is reasonable.



Edited by Trailrunner (09/15/10 12:32 AM)
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If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

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#138806 - 09/15/10 01:32 AM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: Trailrunner]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
First of all--this is great information you've been given here. Pika and her friends really took a lot of time to go through your list and slice and dice it appropriately. I agree with all of their advice, with one exception.

THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO IS BUY A SMALL SCALE, SO THAT YOU CAN WEIGHT ALL THIS STUFF AND MAKE GOOD DECISIONS.

If you do that, I guarantee the suggestions here will make all the sense in the world.
_________________________
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Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#138807 - 09/15/10 02:57 AM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: balzaccom]
Wilderness70 Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 103
Originally Posted By balzaccom
First of all--this is great information you've been given here. Pika and her friends really took a lot of time to go through your list and slice and dice it appropriately. I agree with all of their advice, with one exception.

THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO IS BUY A SMALL SCALE, SO THAT YOU CAN WEIGHT ALL THIS STUFF AND MAKE GOOD DECISIONS.

If you do that, I guarantee the suggestions here will make all the sense in the world.


I'm not an ultralight backpacker and my experience is limited, however I am currently using a small food scale and weighing every single piece of gear i have in ounces. I made a fairly basic Excel worksheet where I can enter everything, and based on whether or not I check a box next to the gear the total is given to me in ounces and pounds.

It's a great way to see how every item affects your pack differently. Why take a flashlight that weighs 17 ounces when you can take one that weighs 6 ounces along with a headlamp that weighs 5 oz and still save 6 oz. I didn't realize my Camelbak 100 oz bladder weighed 7.3 pounds full. Regardless of the style of backpacking you like, ultralight or overly-prepared and comfortable like myself, there are areas where weight can be cut and it will add up.



Edited by Whiskeyguy (09/15/10 02:58 AM)

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#138812 - 09/15/10 10:52 AM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: Wilderness70]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
A lot has already been said. But I will just add to a few things. Cut your huge clothing list. The only duplicates (clothes that I am not wearing at the time) would be one pair of nylon pants, one nylon shirt, and one pair of underwear. Bring enough insulating clothing to keep you warm in the high teens, low 20's, but only one set. I would also get a 20 degree bag and try and keep it less than 3 lbs.

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#138819 - 09/15/10 12:00 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: finallyME]
NJDrew Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 4
Ugh, well I knew I was going to get beat up for this list and that it good. I myself knew that that base weight was ridiculous, but I just couldn’t see a way around it without help. That is the reason why I posted it on here, so you ladies and gents could make me see the light. Although im not in the day light yet, im starting to see dawn 

This has been hard for me to do as I don’t have the gear to weigh myself or best information sources to make wise decisions as to actual gear size and weight. In addition to that a lot of things are being factored into that list especially cost. I know there are lighter weight packs, tents and bags, but I don’t know if I could ask someone to spend in excess of $600 on gear that they may only use a couple of times in their life time. I will go back threw the list and cut it down to 20lbs including the group and fishing gear. This should put the ending weight at about 40lbs. That I hope will be do able for 18 miles spread out over 2 days. Clothes, Pack, Tent, Bag and some of the Personal Gear seems to be the biggest issues, so I will start working on those first. Water weight is not a big concern as the trail follows the river most of the way and crosses several feeder steams, so resupply shouldn’t be an issue.

To respond to some of the more specific comments.

The deodorant is something that is not needed, however it is a feel good item. For the amount of weight it adds I think my group would agree that it acceptable. With that being said I will try and find a lighter weight solution.


Pika:

6) the zip lock bags serve two purposes, first they waterproof and second they act as vacuum seal bags for space saving. You put your clothes in them (tightly rolled), sit on the bag to push the air out, then seal them.

The water bottles are a great suggestion, that I will look into.

OregonMouse:

I put rain gear as optional, because I found with my limited experience that in areas with finicky weather by the time you relize it is going to rain you are drenched before you get your rain gear out and the rain tapers off shortly after you get your rain gear on. In these scenarios, full rain gear (top & bottoms) becomes more hassle than its worth imo.

From the research I did I was told that late July the average temperature at night in that area would be around 40 degrees, however I agree that it would be smarter and safer to plan for 20 degrees. I will adjust for that.

P.S. Thank you for the links, they are very helpful.

TomD:

Agreed, the 200 ft of parachute cord is a waste. The rope I need to keep, although I might be able to cut down on the length. The Bob Marshall is Bear country and the regs for that wilderness require/suggest a bear line, that you need to put up yourself. So figuring 15’ between trees plus tying is about 20’ plus the line to hauls the food up their another 15’ which puts that at about 45’ total at a min.

The base list is what is/was required by BSA for a Philmont trek. I just used that as a base. Since that base members of the group have added things that should be removed.

skcreidc:

A preliminary hike to see what the trip will be like and test all the gear is definitely in order. I will plan that for April/May of next year.

Trailrunner:

I didn’t mention a stove or fuel, because the plan is to use pre-made dehydrated foods that only require water to make. This allows us to use camp fires to boil water and saves the weight of that item. Not to mention the issue of flying with gas canisters even empty in this day and age.

balzaccom & Whiskeyguy:

Yes, I plan on weighing everything before I finish. Those weights are approx. so they could be very well be way over. I wont know until I have it all to weigh.

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#138821 - 09/15/10 12:17 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: NJDrew]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
In case you didn't know, you can rent items like pack, tents and sleeping bags. Those are the 3 big items that will cost the most and cut your weight the most. If you only plan to use them a few times in a life time, look at renting.
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#138822 - 09/15/10 01:21 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: finallyME]
NJDrew Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/14/10
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By finallyME
In case you didn't know, you can rent items like pack, tents and sleeping bags. Those are the 3 big items that will cost the most and cut your weight the most. If you only plan to use them a few times in a life time, look at renting.


Is that at location usually or can I do it threw a place like Campmor?

Edit: I see rei does rentals. I will give them a call.


Edited by NJDrew (09/15/10 02:00 PM)

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#138826 - 09/15/10 01:43 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: NJDrew]
flyguyskt Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5
i am new to this site but not to pack trips and im not wanting to ruffle feathers here but....yes i would say he could cut down on weight a bit but not everyone has the cash for superlight gear.

late july should be safe for weather but i have been caught in 20 *F snow storms and had almost a foot of snow in two hours in late july!

off of OP timeline, a lot has to do with where and when you are going out...right? if say you are heading to the collegiate peaks in mid october it could be dry and 70*F but it could then blizzard, dump 3 ft of snow overnight and be -10*F in a matter of hours...that 20* bag may not cut it anymore...that one pair of pants for sure isnt gunna get the job done for 10 days!

i think the OP had a good basic starting list.
blanket statements need to be covered with a....in this weather condition blah blah blah....safety first


Edited by flyguyskt (09/15/10 01:48 PM)

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#138839 - 09/15/10 03:22 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: flyguyskt]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
You don't necessarily need a lot of cash for lightweight gear. For instance, Campmor has their Campmor brand down sleeping bag, often recommended to those on a budget, for $120 in regular, $130 for long. It weighs 2 lbs. 4 oz. in regular, 2 lbs. 6 oz. in long. It's listed at 20*F, although most consider it more like a 25-30*F bag. With insulating clothing worn inside, it should be just fine for frosty nights in the "Bob." In other words, the OP will have a sleeping bag that's adequate for the conditions at half the weight he listed for an inadequate 40*F bag. Use a 2-mil trash compactor bag (if you can find an unscented brand!) or a cut-down 2-mil contractor's trash bag as a pack liner to keep everything (including the sleeping bag) dry, and you won't even need a stuff sack. Use a "candy cane" closure--twist the top and fold it over on itself before tying it shut--to keep water from getting inside.

Lots of ideas for saving $ here and in the last chapter of this online book.

Admittedly, paring the last few ounces off an already very lightweight gear list often does require a lot of $$$, but you can get down to a 15-17 lb. base weight without spending any more money than you would for heavy gear.

And as far as safety goes, trying to get over rough trails with such heavy packs will certainly result in injuries! It will also make sure that the participants part enemies (or at least no longer friends) and that they never backpack again!

My recommendations are based on an intimate knowledge of weather in the northern Rockies. I grew up there, spending most of July and August high up near or above timberline, and have been back many times since. That's why I recommended warmer sleeping bags. However, the OP is going to Montana's Bob Marshall Wilderness in July, not to Colorado's Collegiate Peaks in October.


Edited by OregonMouse (09/15/10 03:37 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#138902 - 09/16/10 10:35 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: NJDrew]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Lets just say this discussion boils down to how much weight you are willing to carry. This IS an ultra light backpacking forum and I signed up to see what other people were doing to shed weight because I would like to be carrying 30-35 lbs instead of 45lbs on an eight day trip. On one recent trip I ran into a guy carrying a starting total of 18lbs for a 5 day! Course for food he had butter and peanut butter...exclusively...hummm. But the concept interested me. An old rule of thumb (according to my dad) was to carry 20 to 25% of your body weight but this guy was at 10%! It is just a fact that the less you carry the easier time you will have and the less wear and tear on the body.

That said, weather can change fast in mountains. Because of that I tend to be conservative about weather related gear. Do your research and test out your set up. You are the one who needs be happy with it.

One other note. I have worked in Montana in the southwest quarter of the state mapping geology in my youth. It was very nice for most of the 4 months I was there. It did snow on us once in June and once in July. One of those days was a beautiful cold day in the Flint Creek range. A very pleasant day. The other I froze my ass off inside a Dodge Ram Charger with the heater going full blast trying to work. I had my best down jacket on. You know the coldest recorded temp in the lower 48 is in Montana. The point is that you never know so be prepared. Oh yea, I forgot the hail...crazy hail the size of golf balls. The KOA I was staying at looked like a troop of angry boy scouts with ballpeen hammers had attacked. Helena got hit the same day by stuff the size of grapefruit. You could see the dents in the copper dome of the capital building. Kept the glass guys busy for months.


Edited by skcreidc (09/16/10 11:22 PM)

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#140278 - 10/11/10 07:44 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: Pika]
Al Paca Offline
member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Oakland, CA

"To find the gear lists, go to the home page of this site, look on the left side under gear checklists and compare what you plan to take with what others find necessary."



I was wondering if this thread still exists. I can't seem to find it and am interested in what others use as I am reevaluating my load. I did a search but can't find it.

New here, thanks!!
-al

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#140307 - 10/12/10 02:01 AM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: Al Paca]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Home page of this site--look at the left-hand column.

The articles were still there as of this morning!

The one you want is The 27 lb., 7 day pack, but it's best if you read all the articles for lots of ideas re gear selection and lightening up.


Edited by OregonMouse (10/12/10 02:02 AM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#140376 - 10/12/10 06:48 PM Re: Critique gear list for up coming trip please... [Re: OregonMouse]
Al Paca Offline
member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Oakland, CA
Ah thanks.
I was looking at the backcountryforum.com home page and couldn't find it.

Thanks again!

-AL

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