Feathered Friends 300x250
Superior Down Sleeping Bags & Clothing

Ultralight Adventure Equipment (ULA)    

   
 
 
Lite Gear Talk

BCG Holiday Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#133312 - 05/06/10 05:27 PM spray on clothes bug repellent
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
stuff says it last through 6 washes and kills the bugs...i plan on using some deet on myself, and am tempted to put this on my clothes tent, bag, and pack for extra protection...but i'm concerned it will stain, smell, and ruin my stuff...anyone use it? will i be fine with deet alone?
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

Top
#133314 - 05/06/10 06:01 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: MarkNM]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Originally Posted By MarkNM
stuff says it last through 6 washes and kills the bugs...i plan on using some deet on myself, and am tempted to put this on my clothes tent, bag, and pack for extra protection...but i'm concerned it will stain, smell, and ruin my stuff...anyone use it? will i be fine with deet alone?


I would let anything DEET related touch my bag, tent, down or synthetics.

NB: It doesn't kill bugs, it repells them. Some deet on yourself should repell the majority. Zip your tent up to keep them out of there and negate the need to worry.

Top
#133317 - 05/06/10 07:40 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: MarkNM]
Heber Offline
member

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 245
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
My guess is that you are talking about Permethrin. It's not really a repellent (even though they sometimes call it that). It's an insecticide similar to what your exterminator might spray around your house. It's not sticky or staining and has no odor once it's dry. It's excellent stuff for ticks. I never go out in the Ozarks without having my clothes pre-treated with it. I enjoy watching ticks curl up and die after climbing on my pants or socks. You can put it on your gear if you like. It's won't damage anything.

I can't say that I've noticed it helping with mosquitos though. That's what DEET is for. Don't put that on your gear. It does bad stuff to some synthetics. Just put it on your skin.

Top
#133323 - 05/06/10 08:55 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: MarkNM]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I use permethrin on pants, gaiters and the bottom and straps of my hammock. If bugs keep walking across treated material, they die and fall off.

I dislike DEET - it will melt plastic. I use it on my hands (the backs) and then carefully wipe on each cheek, rather than spray it on my face - anything that makes my lips numb has to be Not Good For You. A headnet is a blessing in bug season - DEET is useful against mosquitos but does nothing for nuisance gnats and flies.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#133324 - 05/06/10 09:20 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: MarkNM]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I've been using "BioUD" on my clothes for the past two bug seasons. It lasts about 5 days, no washings in between though.

It's made from tomato plants.

It's a repellant and you can also use it on your skin.

It's smelly, but it works great for ticks. They hate it. Works on skeeters too.

Wal-Mart carries it.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#133351 - 05/07/10 12:23 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: MarkNM]
OldScout Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 501
Loc: Puget Sound, Washington
Do a search on this website for "Permethrin." There was a thread about 3 or 4 years ago about ordering concentrated permethrin and then treating your own clothes. Much much cheaper. With the concentrate, I will make a big bucket of the stuff and dunk all of my clothes (except what I sleep in), wring out as much as possible, and let dry on the back fence. Additionally, I have put it in a spray bottle, set up my tent in the back yard, got inside of my tent, and sprayed out through the netting. This stops the little blood suckers from lining up on the screen and drooling at me when I'm on the trail. I treat everything because I don't use Deet. At night time I wear long sleeve shirts and pants, bug helmet, and put my hands in my pockets if conditions are really that bad. Or, I retreat to my tent and watch them land on the netting and immedialty take off.

Top
#133421 - 05/10/10 04:55 AM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: OldScout]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
In two words: HORSE DIP

You can buy it at Walmart in the pet section and it contains 15% permethrin. You can also buy a 15% solution in the insecticide aisle of most home improvement stores. Make sure it lists PERMETHRIN as the active ingredient and nothing else. Some insecticides combine permethrin with other poisons which is not good!

Now someone is going to say that this stuff isn't meant for human use, so I'm going to say DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK. I've been using it for at least 5 years. If you're paranoid, go buy the expensive stuff that treats just one outfit for $8. The horse dip ran me $14 and treated two outfits, bug nets, hammock, hat, and 5 pairs of socks spring/summer/fall/winter (4 treatments a year) for two years. Oh, and it kept my home spider, ant and roach free too.

Still reading? OK, now that you've got your concentrate, dilute it down to around 3% (mix one part insecticide to 4 parts water). NOTE: most of the spray on stuff is 0.5% permethrin. I suppose this it the manufacturer's way of erring on the side of caution, but the military has been using 15% permethrin solutions to treat combat fatigues for years now. I like the 3% solution as a compromise. The benefit is that one treatment lasts at least 3 months through at least 8 washings, based on personal experience.

Whatever the concentration, the treatment process is the same. Mix the stuff in something you won't ever use for food or drink (empty 2L soda bottles work). Get a container big enough for the clothing (Walmart storage bin). Do one piece at a time. Wet it down until it drips, wring it out and line dry. Make sure you wear LONG gloves and a rain parka or poncho. Doesn't hurt to have something cover your mouth too (like a dust mask) just in case you splash (and you will splash). Don't get the stuff on your bare skin, and if you do (you will), just rinse it off right away. MAKE SURE THE CLOTHING IS BONE DRY BEFORE YOU WEAR IT! Once it is dry to the touch, you might consider giving it a trip through the dryer. Thorough drying sets the permethrin in the fabric. Once dry, it does not come off the fabric, even when it is re-wetted by perspiration or washing. It actually wears off through friction and eventually loses it's effectiveness by contact with the air. I've heard some people like to wash the clothing at this point to remove any "impurities" that might be present in the insecticide. Your call, but I don't see how it can hurt to be extra safe, especially if you have sensitive skin.

You can also put the stuff in a spray bottle (or bug sprayer) to hit the bug netting and vestibule of your tent. This prevents waking up to go to the bathroom, opening the zipper and being swarmed by the mosquitoes that have congregated on your bug net. Treating the vestibule and netting keeps those shade-seeking blood suckers away from that ambush point.

My bug juice of choice is Natrapel. It's a 20% picaridin based repellent. I dislike DEET and BioUD for the way they smell, the stickiness or oiliness, and the way DEET affects plastics. Picaridin has no smell, feels the same way hairspray does when it dries on your skin, and leaves the plastic parts of my valuable electronic goodies alone.


Edited by NiytOwl (05/10/10 05:01 AM)
Edit Reason: Added info

Top
#133453 - 05/10/10 01:50 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: NiytOwl]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By NiytOwl
Now someone is going to say that this stuff isn't meant for human use..


I'll bite. Here are some links to check out so you know a little more about how and why it works and the risks and hazards associated with using it:

EPA Fact Sheet

Wikipedia

I think you should evaluate your risks personally. If you have a strong immune system, are not taking many prescription drugs, and have a low overall exposure to other chemicals and pesticides, than permethrin might be an okay choice for you.

As for myself, I can affirm all three of the above, yet I still choose to avoid it and DEET.

I like picaridin for the same reasons as NiytOwl points out, but I'm still concerned about it's toxicity. There's not a lot of info on that.

Tick bites suck. I have quite a few right now. It's the season for them. But even using precautions, you're still likely to get tick bit here.

The best thing to do is remove ticks quickly. If you feel an itch, check if it's caused by a tick immediately. If you wait longer than 24 hours to remove a tick your exposure to Lyme disease has begun and your risk of getting it increases with time.

If you get a "Bullseye" ring around a bite, you have it and need to see a doctor for treatment. The sooner the better.

*Do Not* assume your doctor prescribed the correct treatment.

Double check your doctor's prescribed treatment to make sure it is up to date and is for the correct anti-biotic at the correct dosage.

In the rural Ozarks daily tick checks are a part of everyday life.



_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#133463 - 05/10/10 03:55 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: billstephenson]
OldScout Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 501
Loc: Puget Sound, Washington
This from Wikipedia again:

"Picaridin, first used in Europe in 2001, has been reported to be effective by Consumer Reports (7% solution)[6] and the Australian Army (20% solution).[7] Consumer Reports retests in 2006 gave as result that a 7% solution of picaridin offered little or no protection against Aedes mosquitoes (vector of dengue fever) and a protection time of about 2.5 hours against Culex (vector of West Nile virus), while a 15% solution was good for about one hour against Aedes and 4.8 hours against Culex.[8] Natrapel 8 hour is a 20% based picaridin repellent that claims to be effective for 8 hours."

While everyone must make his or her own decision, for me as a big sweater, I much rather treat my clothes once before I leave for the trip rather than having to apply the stuff directly to my skin three times a day.


Top
#133478 - 05/10/10 09:31 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: OldScout]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By OldScout
I much rather treat my clothes once before I leave for the trip rather than having to apply the stuff directly to my skin three times a day.


I agree. I currently use BioUD for that. But like I said, it's smelly.

I also spray it on the inside of my clothes, especially places where ticks like to bite, like underarms, crotch, behind the knees.

I'll say this, if I spray my clothing with BioUD and don't spray my skin with anything, I won't get bit near as much if at all. It's effectiveness fades fast after about 3 days, but it does still work better than nothing up to 5 days.

But permethrin does work better. It does kill ticks while they're climbing on you. BioUD does not do that.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone cross checked the symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome against those of overexposure to permethrin?

NityOwl is right, all those soldiers were given clothing that contained some pretty high levels of the stuff, and they wore them constantly.

You have to be careful with that stuff... If you're going to use it I'd follow NityOwl's advice about applying it.

Bill
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top
#133502 - 05/11/10 02:28 AM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: billstephenson]
CJC Offline
member

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 738
Loc: Southern Nevada
Excellent post above by NityOwl. I follow the same system when treating my clothes, and tent netting. I also spray it on my car camping, scout camp bags as well. He said he uses a 3% solution, I use a 5% solution and when I am done I pour it around the outside of the house, spray my windows and doors and anywhere else bugs can get into the house. Works great at keeping the scorpions outside where they belong and not crawling on the walls inside my house.

Top
#135474 - 06/24/10 06:50 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: NiytOwl]
orclwzrd Offline
member

Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 82
Loc: Illinois(I just live here)
Permethrin on my wool hiking socks? I'm using 2% mixed down from Farm and Fleet's 10% concentrate. Just don't want to ruin a good pair of merino socks.

Thanks for any thoughts.

John
Former Tick Magnet

Top
#135482 - 06/24/10 09:27 PM Re: spray on clothes bug repellent [Re: orclwzrd]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3889
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I don't think you'd ruin wool socks with permethrin. I've never seen it react to any kind of natural fiber.
_________________________
--

"You want to go where?"



Top

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Bivvy bag with wired peak
by Petro1234
Today at 01:06 PM
How cheap can you go?
by EMT Dave
12/05/17 07:07 PM
compass, thermometer, baro/altimeter
by edfardos
11/19/17 09:54 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Just found out about UCO candles
by toddfw2003
11/30/17 08:41 AM
Hitting the eagle rock loop, Ark in 3 days
by toddfw2003
11/19/17 11:31 AM
Flamable fabrics?
by
11/13/17 09:31 PM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Plant based insulation...
by billstephenson
11/18/17 02:58 PM
lightest grommets to use
by toddfw2003
10/22/17 06:13 PM
avalibility of thin ti rod
by the-gr8t-waldo
01/26/17 04:45 PM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Woodland, ultralight, Wilderbabe, 1321132, guoguo
12466 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com