Feathered Friends 300x250
Superior Down Sleeping Bags & Clothing

Ultralight Adventure Equipment (ULA)    

   
 
 
Lite Gear Talk

BCG Holiday Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#134942 - 06/10/10 07:59 AM Neo Air
TWISTEDLIM Offline
member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 302
Finally a good nights sleep. Worth every cent for those on the fence. Only problem is it does not work worth a darn as a chair.
_________________________
Rich

Top
#134953 - 06/10/10 01:02 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: TWISTEDLIM]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Yep, it's a good piece of kit. Not revolutionary but certainly evolutionary. And I do sleep very, very well on my Neo.
_________________________
If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

Top
#134954 - 06/10/10 01:28 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: TWISTEDLIM]
PTLateHIker Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
Hmm - I've been using it as a chair with the delicate and much criticized Big Agnes Cyclone SL. Super comfortable and warmer than the Clearview I was using before.

Top
#134960 - 06/10/10 02:40 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: TWISTEDLIM]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
What don't you like about it as a chair?

I've used it, with the Compack chair kit, without any problems. My only nit to pick is that it's a nuisance having to blow it up and deflate it at lunch stops, then repeat the whole process in camp. Not enough of a nuisance to make me leave the chair behind, but annoying in the why-does-smoke-follow-me-around-the-fire kind of way.

The only other nuisance factor is that you have to take it in and out of the chair to sleep. I solved this by using the chair upside down, and letting the pad extend fully out the open end. I (Karol) sewed a piece of silnylon onto the chair, so the pad would be protected a bit from the dirt. Doesn't work too bad. The put-in, take-out factor is enough to make me leave the chair behind on a couple of trips so far.

Top
#134965 - 06/10/10 04:30 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: Glenn]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
OK, a dissenting voice here.

I worked really hard at convincing myself that the NeoAir was just fine because of my attraction to the weight savings. After using it on several trips, I realized that the NeoAir, mostly thanks to its many horizontal tubes, was not nearly as comfortable as my POE Ether Thermo (of which I have an older version). I had a really hard time finding the "sweet spot" between too hard and so soft that my hip bone touched the ground. The thing also kept "bucking me off"--every time I turned over (which I do a lot of), I'd find myself on the ground. My POE pad is much easier to adjust to the correct (for me) amount of air (probably due to the larger tubes) and the outside tubes keep me from rolling off. Finally, I got cold on the NeoAir at 40 degrees F. Below that I had to use a supplemental pad, which put paid to any real weight savings over my POE insulated pad. Regulars on this forum (such as Glenn) have read my account of attempting to use it with a light CCF pad on a 18*F early October night! I am definitely a cold sleeper, but even for a warm sleeper I wouldn't recommend the NeoAir where there's any chance of its getting below freezing (a frequent happening even in midsummer in some of the areas in which I backpack).

Of course each of us has his/her own individual sleep style, about as individual as shoe size or pack size. But judging from the large number of slightly used NeoAirs I see on sale on various forums, it appears I'm not the only one who has decided it's not for me!


Edited by OregonMouse (06/10/10 04:32 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#134966 - 06/10/10 04:41 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: OregonMouse]
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
I prefer my BA insulated Air core...i tried out the neo but wasn't sold on it for the extra cash
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

Top
#134996 - 06/11/10 01:14 AM Re: Neo Air [Re: MarkNM]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1731
Loc: Napa, CA
I'm sold on mine. I held on to my tried and true Zrest....until I slept on my wife's Neo Air. Now I really do sleep better. Totally worth it for me.

_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

Top
#135109 - 06/14/10 02:27 AM Re: Neo Air [Re: TWISTEDLIM]
countr21 Offline
member

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 48
Loc: Denver, Colorado
I've recently done two 3-day trips with mine, and love it. Just like the Big Agnes, but quite a bit lighter. And I never slip around like I used to on my (original) BA Air Core.

Top
#135113 - 06/14/10 06:58 AM Re: Neo Air [Re: OregonMouse]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I think you've hit on it: individual sleep style matters a lot. I like mine; I find it more comfortable than the BA Insulated Air Core it replaced. I can't comment on "warmer" since I've not yet had it out in 20-degree temperatures - and I'm concerned enough that my first such experience with it will be when I'm car-camped, with a closed-cell pad in the car if I need it. I know the BA IAC was a failure at 25 degrees - the cold from the ground came through it like it wasn't there.

However, for me, the all around champ (balancing light weight, comfort, warmth, versatility, puncture-resistance, and convenience) is still the 1.5 inch Thermarest light (through various incarnations of Ultralight, Prolite 4, and Prolite Plus.) It didn't win any of the categories hands down, but if I rated all my pads across all the categories, it won.

The main reason I carry the NeoAir instead of Prolite now is weight and comfort. It's not as good a chair (though it's not too bad), and it's not as convenient to inflate (or to insert in that chair kit.) But, at least for now, I'll put up with the lesser versatility and convenience to get half a pound or so off my back.

Top
#135120 - 06/14/10 11:53 AM Re: Neo Air [Re: balzaccom]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
I've said it many times before on other like posts, I've used my small in single digit temps on unfrozen ground, on snow with a CCP underneath from freezing temps down into the teens with minimal issues.

Top
#135123 - 06/14/10 02:54 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: hikerduane]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I'll say it again--adding a 3/8 to 1/2 inch CCF pad to the NeoAir basically negates any weight savings!
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#135125 - 06/14/10 03:28 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: OregonMouse]
frediver Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 114
Well that depends how you compare wt. savings.
If you are going to compare it to a 3in thick
traditional therm-a-rest ( do they even make one )
then I you are still saving weight and have better
insulation.

I do have one question:
Where do people find the money to pay for a $140.00
air pad?


Edited by frediver (06/14/10 03:37 PM)

Top
#135126 - 06/14/10 03:43 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: frediver]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
The same place I find the money to get a high quality down bag/jacket - the gear gets used often enough that they will be less expensive and more appreciated over the long term.

To break it down:
I go out all year, at least one overnight every month. My NeoAir is good without the spare foam pad for most of the year since I don't winter camp (I go to lower elevation trails instead of busting out the snowshoes). I've been down to the low 20F range and been fine with it. My hips aren't sore in the morning and don't hit the ground through the pad, which they did often on the 1.5" Thermarest I had before.

It's worth every penny for those reasons. Just like good down gear that will last for decades and compresses quite small and keeps me warm and toasty is worth every penny.

If you go once a year, and don't care about weight, it makes far more sense to get a cheaper bag and cheaper pad.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#135127 - 06/14/10 03:46 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: frediver]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Don't know about anyone else, but camping gear became a lot more affordable once the kids were through school and self-supporting, and the mortgage was paid off. It doesn't hurt that I don't smoke, drink, gamble, or have additional expensive hobbies. (I play golf, but my golf gear is no way in as good a shape as my hiking gear.)

Empty nesting is vastly underrated - it's like dating, except this time you have money.

Top
#135139 - 06/14/10 05:18 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: Glenn]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2802
Loc: NorCal
Agreed. My backpacking expenses make it my cheapest hobby, no matter how much gear and clothing I accumulate. And adjusting for inflation, good gear has never been cheaper than it is today.

On my drives up the hill to go hiking, I like to compare imaginary budgets with the goobers hauling their custom off-road rigs with their turbodiesel eff-two-fiddys, or the retirees avec gigantic are-vees towing Lexus ess-you-vees.

Of course, we're the "elitists."

Yup, backpacking is a cheap hobby/sport/lifestyle. and money spent in pursuit of a good night's sleep is money well spent.
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#135147 - 06/14/10 07:04 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: OregonMouse]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
You are right OM, not much of a savings at least in the winter, but, it is all about bulk too. My NeoAir can go in the pack and the CCF pad tied on outside, don't want to do that with the Exped DAM. Plus, push comes to shove, the CCF can double as a sit pad if I forget my GG sit pad.

Top
#135152 - 06/14/10 09:30 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: hikerduane]
Tangohkr Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 57
Loc: Arizona
The sales person at my local hiking shop just told me they have changed the Neoair (upgraded) and the new ones will be out next year.
_________________________
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Helen Keller

Top
#135155 - 06/14/10 10:17 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: hikerduane]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Not a weight saving even in the summer, because nights are often below 40*F and can easily get below freezing in the high mountains in the summer. So I'd have to take a 3/8 to 1/2" pad almost all the time.

I am comparing the weight (and comfort) of the NeoAir to a standard insulated air pad, such as the POE Ether Thermo and the BA Insulated air pad, which are the alternatives if you want a 2 1/2" thick air pad. I haven't been able to use a self-inflating pad for years--my hips have gotten more and more pressure sensitive.

How does one afford the NeoAir, assuming you would want it? REI has 20% off coupons several times per year, and allows you to return the thing even if you've used it on a couple of trips. Short size pad plus the 20% off coupon put it under $100.

I expect my next pad, once my POE pad dies, will be a custom down-filled pad, probably 3 inches thick, from Kooka Bay.


Edited by OregonMouse (06/14/10 10:22 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#135159 - 06/14/10 11:11 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: OregonMouse]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Well young lady, I'm not warm blooded, super warm, or a meaty guy, so I'm surprised the NeoAir works for me even in single digits on unfrozen ground. As for affording one, no mortgage, kids or revolving credit card payments for an over extended debt:) work for me. My credit card gets paid off every month. I'm not upwardly mobile, but I can get new stuff once in awhile. I may get what you have when I need a new pad, we'll see.

Top
#135163 - 06/14/10 11:34 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: OregonMouse]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I got a price quote from Kooka Bay on a custom job.

I can buy two more NeoAirs and a new pillow for that...
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#135169 - 06/15/10 12:13 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: Glenn]
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
Originally Posted By Glenn
Don't know about anyone else, but camping gear became a lot more affordable once the kids were through school and self-supporting, and the mortgage was paid off. It doesn't hurt that I don't smoke, drink, gamble, or have additional expensive hobbies. (I play golf, but my golf gear is no way in as good a shape as my hiking gear.)

Empty nesting is vastly underrated - it's like dating, except this time you have money.
27 owning my own place in northern nj, and trying to obtain nice gear is a challenge in and of it self...oh yea i gotta get food too! i like the nicer gear as well, but the neo vs the ba ins air core was easy for me
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

Top
#135171 - 06/15/10 12:45 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: MarkNM]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I remember that challenge - I was trying to equip myself and my 12-year-old son at that point. We used tarps because they were cheaper than tents, and accepted that we'd be scratching the 15 or 20 mosquito bites for a week after the trip; we used ponchos because the money we saved over rainsuits paid for a couple of Camp Trails Adjustable II packs. We carried 35 or 40 pounds for the weekend because we couldn't afford all the nice, light North Face, Kelty, Gregory, Lowe, and Marmot stuff. The money had to go to everyday bills, instead. We did dream, though! smile

Making cost a priority, and making choices about gear based on a budget is absolutely proper. The nice thing is that, nowadays, it's getting harder to find really crappy gear among even the lower-priced stuff. Prices now tend to reflect weight and gee-whiz function, not overall quality differences.

Good, functional gear has always been possible; high-end gear has been a luxury I could only afford over the last 10 years or so. I've enjoyed it, but I've never forgotten that high-end is not the only valid choice, nor is it remotely essential to enjoying being in the woods and mountains.

Top
#135174 - 06/15/10 01:05 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: Glenn]
JimmyTH Offline
member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Indiana
I'm still waiting for that time when I can play with the high end gear, all my stuff is bargain bin. I've noticed that low end stuff has gotten a lot better over the years, though, even what you'd think was cheap import garbage is often very well made now. You just have to be critical, try to break things in the store if possible (I've tugged on a few suspicious seams and rivets in that way and quietly put stuff back on the shelf). I'm not real sure I'd ever go for the best gear out there, might think differently if I was going to the Himalayas.

JimmyTH

Top
#135184 - 06/15/10 03:38 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: TWISTEDLIM]
frediver Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 114
I guess I'm just cheap, I am equating a $140.00 air pad to $150.00 tenni-runners that might only cost $10.00 to produce,
Successful Advertising !
When I bought my airpads I got them on sale for <$45.00 ea., 2 years ago, insulated and non-insulated versions.
I wonder how effective a non-neo pad might be if it was backed by a layer of needle punch reflective insulation, reflective nylon or just a space blanket?

Top
#135520 - 06/25/10 08:56 PM Re: Neo Air [Re: frediver]
Tangohkr Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 57
Loc: Arizona
I bought a cheap (from Wally World) soft, foldable car windshield sun reflector. Very light and kept me warmer than the Neo by itself. Can't prove that because I haven't been in the low temps without the reflector, but I felt better.
_________________________
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Helen Keller

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Knife, Fire Starter, Ignition Source
by Jim M
12/11/17 07:34 PM
Bivvy bag with wired peak
by Petro1234
12/10/17 01:06 PM
How cheap can you go?
by EMT Dave
12/05/17 07:07 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Greetings - and a question
by valongi
12/11/17 11:35 AM
Just found out about UCO candles
by toddfw2003
11/30/17 08:41 AM
Hitting the eagle rock loop, Ark in 3 days
by toddfw2003
11/19/17 11:31 AM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Plant based insulation...
by billstephenson
11/18/17 02:58 PM
lightest grommets to use
by toddfw2003
10/22/17 06:13 PM
avalibility of thin ti rod
by the-gr8t-waldo
01/26/17 04:45 PM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
2 registered (), 21 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
valongi, Atkinson J, Dcarpenter, Woodland, ultralight
12469 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com