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#133306 - 05/06/10 04:12 PM New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
Hey everyone new here so be nice! JK i have a thick skin...and mistakes are how we learn!

Starting the AT Georgia to Maine in as few sections as my job will permit...starting sept 20th kinda

Pack- NF Primero 85
Tent - currently have Eureka K2XT for car and Spitfire1 want to upgrade spitfire to a small 2 man thinking REI Quater Dome T2 or BS seedhouse SL

Bag- NF Snowshoe- i've brought just liners in summer
Pad - RidgeRest Delux...thinking of BA Air Core for packing
Poles - BD Elliptacal Spectre Flicklock
Water - Katadyn Vario w/ Chlorine tabs for bad areas
Stove -Cadera Cone system from Trail designs

various other lightweight bowls, cups, spoons, crap like that, bunch of lightweight approrirate clothes

looking for a lightweight lantern or something besides my headlamp...

any other suggestions or must haves i should bring? seriously you won't hurt my feelings, i'd rather be told i'm an idiot then lug something 3 times heavier than something that works better 1/3 the weight...
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

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#133308 - 05/06/10 05:00 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Do you need the 85L capacity that Primero holds-- if you do, then something tells me that you are looking to shave pounds and not ounces.

-The pack alone weighs 5Lbs 5.oz. A smaller lighter pack will save you 2lbs+
-NF Snowshoe. I think this is a zero degree bag and if so then it is just under 4lbs if I recall. Overkill and heavy. Look at a lighter, cooler bag which will be more suited to your three-season needs and save 2Lbs or so.
-Pad, you could cut down or use a torso length pad. Save 9oz.
-Bowels, cups, spoons and crap like that-- sounds like you are bringing the entire kitchen-- pair it down to a pot and spoon, you will be fine.

-LW lantern??

If I were you, my next purchase would be an ounce scale. Then I would weigh and list every item and then come back and post your complete gear list so that we can really help.

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#133309 - 05/06/10 05:10 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: ChrisFol]
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
i'll work on the weights, i have a fish scale with ounces so it should suffice...
the pack was born for carrying gear for me and my ex...shes gone but not looking to spend money on a new pack now, i know its heavy but it practically bullet proof...

the snowshoe is a 3.6oz bag for 0 degrees...was planning on just wrapping myself up in a liner...tho as i agree its a bit overkill unless i'm doing my winter stuff...its a great bag tho

sorry i wasn't specifc but i butchered the pad to fit nicely in the spitfire, and i'm only 5'8 130lbs so i trimmed the sides as well

i acutally don't have that much misc...i have one spork, one knife, a cup for mixing drinks in(lemondae) its also a backup pot, and one deep plate/bowl for eating off of...don't really have too much kitchen stuff

well idk about a lantern...what does everyone do for light where fires are a no no, and i want to read? chilling in the tent with my headlamp?
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

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#133310 - 05/06/10 05:24 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Originally Posted By MarkNM

i acutally don't have that much misc...i have one spork, one knife, a cup for mixing drinks in(lemondae) its also a backup pot, and one deep plate/bowl for eating off of...don't really have too much kitchen stuff


You could probably lose the cup and plate/bowl and just eat/drink out of your cooking pot.

Originally Posted By MarkNM

well idk about a lantern...what does everyone do for light where fires are a no no, and i want to read? chilling in the tent with my headlamp?


IDK, I don't usually read. By the time I am done hiking and eating and I am too tired to do much reading-- I just enjoy the outdoors, stargazing etc-- a $20 headlamp is fine for my purposes.


Edited by ChrisFol (05/06/10 05:25 PM)

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#133343 - 05/07/10 08:27 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
kbennett Offline
member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 820
Loc: north carolina
Originally Posted By MarkNM


well idk about a lantern...what does everyone do for light where fires are a no no, and i want to read? chilling in the tent with my headlamp?



Yup. I have a headlamp (Petzl Zipka) with three light levels -- the lowest level is great for reading in my bag at night. The latest model has both red and white LEDs, so you can choose to keep your night vision if you prefer.

I can see why you have the 85-liter pack -- the TNF Snowshoe is a monster sleeping bag. Of course, that's true of any 0-F rated synthetic bag. If you are looking at a September 200-mile section hike in Georgia, a good 30-F rated bag will suffice, and a down bag at that rating will take up about 1/5 the space inside your pack as the Snowshoe (and weigh half as much.)

As a general guideline, for three season hiking in the Southern Appalachians, I would try to keep my big items under 2 pounds each, and certainly under 3 pounds. So a 2-pound sleeping bag, a 2-3 pound pack, and a 2-3 pound shelter (tent, tarp, or whatever.) If you can do that, then your weight for the "big 3" is 6-8 pounds, which goes a long way toward keeping your total base weight at 15 pounds or so (that's everything except food and water.) For me, a 15-pound base weight means I am comfortable both in camp and while hiking.

There is no "perfect" gear -- backpackers carry all kinds of things. However, looking at long distance hikers (on the AT anyway), you see the range of gear they carry narrows a bit. Not to say all long distance hikers carry the same gear -- but when you start to see the same brands and models over and over again, there's a reason for that. (For example, take a look at photos outside AT shelters during thru-hiker season and they look like catalog photos for Tarptent products. Seriously.)

If you can get to an outfitter that specializes in long distance hiking, that might help a lot. You'd be able to try out different and more specialized stuff, and get help from experience LD hikers. Mountain Crossings in GA, Bluff Mountain Outfitters in Hot Springs, and Mt Rogers Outfitters and Sundog in Damascus, VA, immediately come to mind.
_________________________
--Ken B

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#133346 - 05/07/10 10:57 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
If you really want to shave ounces, post a complete list with weights. We can't really do much without 'em.

The Vario is a heavy filter. There are lighter ones that will be comparable in function.

Upgrade to an REI? You'll gain weight. To lose weight you'll be looking at Tarptents, Six Moon Designs, Zpack, and similar. There are 2 man tents that weigh less than the Spitfire, but you'll pay for 'em.

Make sure the BA pad is insulated if you want it to keep you warm. The Air Core is not. To go lighter you will be looking at the NeoAir as well.

I like headlamps - they work very well for all kinds of things. But if you have to have a lantern, the BD Orbit is pretty good in terms of lightweight light.

You can get lighter more compact bags, but you know that. If your destinations ever involve high elevation the liners won't work too well, but the bag will be overkill - people tend to have three season as well as winter bags for that reason, why sweat in a winter bag at 40 degrees? You might look at quilts for a lightweight three season option.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#133347 - 05/07/10 11:22 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: lori]
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
all great advice...i'm working on the weights...i work too much

most of my gear was born out of winter paintballing trips in the pococnos, hence the k2xt tent, and snowshoe

i'm thinking its probably worth the cost to have two seperate setups 3 season and cold, as i won't have to schelp overkill weight and temperture rated gear in the summer...


is down better than synthetic for a 30 degreeish bag?

is the ba insulated air core a good buy? would it suit as a year round pad?

i'm willing to up a bit in weight to be more comfortable in my tent...

are tarptents really that good? i've been toying with the scrap two man design with crossing poles...but not having ever played with one in person i can't speak to the quality...
not much has been mentioned to me about six moons...


also do any other pots fit the cardera cone system? like the MSR blacklite?
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

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#133350 - 05/07/10 11:54 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
-Most people have two or three different set-ups. I have a three bags (3-season, summer and winter). I also have a similar deal with shelters, pads, stoves, pots and clothing etc which I can alter for the seasons, expected weather, duration, location and of course the # of people coming along.


-For anything other than a summer bag, then I would go with a high quality down bag. Campmor's +20 and REI's Sub-Kilo are great buys for the price. If you can afford to stretch the dollar then look at bags my Montbell, Western Moutaineering, Feather Friends and Nuntak-- these are regarded as some of the best brands on the market today.

-The BA Insulated has an R-vaule rating of 4.1. Which in my opinion would be good down to around +20 degrees. Anything below that, then I would be looking at a CCF pad to use in-conjuction wih the BA pad. FWIW, there really isn't one single "year-round" pad.

As for a good buy, that question is purely subjective. For me, I wouldn't buy it as inflateable pads don't suit my style of backpacking for 3-season use, but for you, it may be your best buy. I prefer CCF pads like the ridgerest or z-lite for my general three-season needs.

-I own both the Double Rainbow and the Moment, I rarely use the latter and the former only comes along when both my wife and lab want to come or we decide to car-camp. Personally, I like them and the quality is of the highest. There are lots of reviews and threads of Henry's products, IMOH, if I wanted a three-season tent, then I wouldn't hesistate to purchase a TarpTent over the more expensive MSR, BA offerings.

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#133368 - 05/07/10 09:13 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
gorge_medic Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Kentucky
Ditto Chris on the sleeping bag; down as a rule (when cared for) is lighter, more compressible, and longer-lasting than synthetic.

I can't speak to the value of a BA Aircore, I've never played with it. However, I will chime in, somewhat to play devil's advocate to what Chris posted. I have both CCF and inflatable pads, and I'd be much more likely to use an inflatable on a long thru-hike. The extra comfort sleeping is well worth the extra ounces for a long hike IMO. But it's up to you and your comfort levels.

Yes, Tarptents really are that good; with some knowledge about site selection, pitching, etc they provide great shelter and ventilation for a lot less weight than double-wall tents. Six Moon Designs also has very well-like single wall shelters; I ended up choosing between a TT and SMD shelter only because a used TT popped up on this site. Depending on how much time you're spending outside a shelter, you might consider a tarp or tarp/bivy combo to get you through the odd night actually under the stars.

The Caldera Cone System is available with a lot of different windscreens, each compatible with the common pot/mugs seen. I'm not sure if the MSR Blacklite specifically is on the list, but a quick check of the internet or antigravitygear.com might yield some results.

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#133370 - 05/08/10 12:07 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: gorge_medic]
taM Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 112
Loc: Nashville, TN
I own a BA air core, and I'm not sure why it's never gone back to REI, it's not terribly light though it's fairly tough it seems, especially when compared to something like a Neo. I suppose it's fairly comfortable, but I couldn't for the life of me keep my bag from sliding off the thing, on a dead-level tent site no less. Sort of detracts from the comfort factor.

If I were to stripe/dot the thing with silicone, it would probably help immensely, but in the end it's just a bit too heavy for a gram weenie.
_________________________
Light, Cheap, Durable...
pick two

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#133371 - 05/08/10 12:19 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: gorge_medic]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Originally Posted By gorge_medic

I have both CCF and inflatable pads, and I'd be much more likely to use an inflatable on a long thru-hike. The extra comfort sleeping is well worth the extra ounces for a long hike IMO. But it's up to you and your comfort levels.


Just to offer a further discourse-- the problem that I have with inflateable pads is that they tend to be very fragile and prone to punctures just like any other inflateable device. If I was perhaps car-camping, or only hiking in 7 or so miles and then setting up camp for 3 or 4 days then I may just bring my inflateable-- but thru-hiking the CT, I would never dream of bringing such a pad, the possible headaches are just too much to bear. Don't get me started on trying to get all the air out of the things and then trying to get them into their stuff sacks-- ugh!

I like CCF pads more for convience than for their weight if truth be told. I roll or fold (z-lite) my pad and simply slide it into my pack to make the frame and within 60 seconds I am done and on my way.

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#133415 - 05/09/10 11:01 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
newkidontherock Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Indiana, USA
If you want to go lite, I recommend a hammock/mosquito net combo with a tarp just in case rain and a blanket for warmth. I use this setup May-Sep. in the Michigan/Indiana/Ohio region and I stay quite comfortable.
_________________________
Live Inquisitive, Live Adventurous, Live Insatiable, Live Caring, Live with Integrity, Live Respectful, Live Like An Explorer, Live Your Life.

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#133428 - 05/10/10 10:02 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: ChrisFol]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I have a BA insulated Air Core. It is very easy to get into it's stuff sack. In fact, I am always surprised at how easy it is. I also don't have too much trouble staying on it. Evey one is different.
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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#133433 - 05/10/10 10:45 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: finallyME]
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
well my budget isn't exactly the largest...doing my best to play with some income tax money...
I sorely needed to upgrade my tent and will be doing so today or tommorow (see poll)
I'm going to get a new bag - synthetic or down??? I have the snowshoe for 0 degrees but is def overkill for most of my needs...

other than that i really just need some new trail runners, a few clothing items, and probably a new headlamp...i have an old non LED model....

any other suggestions before i head to my camp store today or tommorow?

do i need a pack cover with the primero?

also what do you guys use as a water resovoir? I plan on utilizing my 72 oz camelback in my pack....but when i make water what should i put it in an MSR drom bag?
thanks again!
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

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#133437 - 05/10/10 11:26 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Originally Posted By MarkNM
well my budget isn't exactly the largest...doing my best to play with some income tax money...
I'm going to get a new bag - synthetic or down???


I would always go with down over synthetic. They are lighter, compress better and have better longevity. You can also find some good down bags for less than $200-- namely Campmor's +20 and REI's Sub-Kilo are excellent for the price.

Originally Posted By MarkNM

other than that i really just need some new trail runners, a few clothing items, and probably a new headlamp...i have an old non LED model....


-Trail runners, there is no need to spend a fortune and don't be upsold on the brand spanking new gortex lined, waterproof yadda yadda ya-- you don't need anything special for the act of walking. But most importantly get shoes that fit your feet.

-Headlamp, what is wrong with the one you have? If it works then why buy another one, anyway, there is no need to spend a fortune here either-- some can cost you $50 and up. Personally I use a BD Ion, cost me around $18 brand new and it worked fine for two thru-hikes of the CT.

Originally Posted By MarkNM

do i need a pack cover with the primero?


I would save some money here also and just purchase some Hefty Trash Compactor bags-- these are really think plastic bags that once sealed are completely water proof. A lighter and cheaper alternative to a pack cover.

Originally Posted By MarkNM

also what do you guys use as a water resovoir? I plan on utilizing my 72 oz camelback in my pack....but when i make water what should i put it in an MSR drom bag?
thanks again!


I personally use a 2L Platypus and a one liter generic store bought water bottle such as SmartWater, Aquafiner or even Gaterade. No need for expensive water holders.

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#133442 - 05/10/10 11:57 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
Go with a down bag. It'll last longer and be more comfortable sleeping in it and carrying it.

I use a large 3L size Nalgene Cantene (holds 4L) to hold extra water when necessary. It also makes a decent pillow. Gatorade bottles are lighter than Nalgenes.

I use a 2L Open Country aluminum pot which is around 7 oz with lid and $12 or so. I typically only boil water in the pot (to avoid needing to clean it), and eat or drink out of a Rubbermaid TakeAlong (1 oz weight, 16 oz volume)


Edited by ohiohiker (05/10/10 11:57 AM)

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#133465 - 05/10/10 04:10 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: ohiohiker]
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
so for my summer bag i'm thinking of the Mountain Hardwear Lamina 45 Degree ...its 1lb and i can always packa liner for fall....

for the water i'm thinking of use my other 72oz bladder? has anyone ever used a drinking bladder as extra storage?

my old head lamp is not LED and sags like crazy do the weight of the old fashioned bulb....hence the upgrade

and shoes i'm probably just going to get a new pair of the NB i currently have and break them em for 6 weeks or so prior to my trip
_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

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#133472 - 05/10/10 07:36 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By MarkNM



is down better than synthetic for a 30 degreeish bag?

is the ba insulated air core a good buy? would it suit as a year round pad?

are tarptents really that good? i've been toying with the scrap two man design with crossing poles...but not having ever played with one in person i can't speak to the quality...
not much has been mentioned to me about six moons...


also do any other pots fit the cardera cone system? like the MSR blacklite?


In reverse order...

Caldera cones are fitted to specific pots. Blacklite is heavy - if you are using alcohol stoves to cut weight you need to look at that pot too. The .9L Evernew (also sold at REI rebranded) is an excellent all purpose pot, not too large or too small, and not as expensive as many... I ordered a Caldera that fit it. Calderas come with a 12-10 alcohol stove that's very efficient and effective. Not all alcohol stoves work well with a caldera but I have also used a Packafeather with good results.

Tarptents are very good, high quality, but not for everyone. Most are not freestanding. Six Moons and similar cottage gear makers will not have samples in stores for you to play with, but they are for the most part good about working with you to make you happy - many have good return policies and excellent customer service. I'm always happy to mention Gossamer Gear, they are so responsive and go above and beyond to stand behind their products.

BA insulated air core is a three season pad. For a true standalone four season (in other words, you don't have to add a foam pad in snow) look at Exped 7 or 9 - expensive and heavy, but comfortable and having the highest R Value around.

http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/

I have a NeoAir and am quite happy with it - only con is having a 20 inch wide pad, but most of them are 20 inches wide, so ...

Another pad option is the Kooka Bay sleeping/air mattresses, I am thinking of having one made for me that is 66" long but 24 or 25 inches wide. They are light and inflatable, and get very good reviews from folks who get them. This is another cottage gear maker, so again, not in stores.

Lastly... down will pack smaller, and be lighter, than synthetic. Also it will last longer if you care for it properly - don't leave it compressed for weeks and months on end, wash/clean when needed (if used often like mine are, once a year suffices, especially if you don't climb in with filthy clothes on). I know folks with 20+ year old down bags.

Higher quality down will pack smaller and be warmer than an equal quantity of lower quality down, IE a 850fp down bag will require less down to keep one warm in freezing temps than a 650 fp bag.

And for further consideration....

Consider the Western Mountaineering Megalite: 30 F bag that weighs 1 lb 7 oz. Stuff sack size 6 x 12. Fill weight of 11 oz. 850 plus fp goose down.

Then there is the Marmot Trestles, a fairly decent brand for a bag, with a rating of 30F, synthetic and weighing in at 3 lbs 3 oz. Stuff sack size 7.5 x 16

Then there is the Marmot Hydrogen 30F down bag, weighing 1 lb 9 oz. Only one ounce different than the Megalite - but I would buy the Megalite. The slight weight difference is in the fill. Both are stuffed with 850fp down. The pricing is fairly close. Stuff sack size, 6 x 12 inches.

Then we have the Marmot Neverwinter 30F down bag at 1 lbs, 15 oz. with 600fp down. It takes 12 oz of 600fp down to get 30f rating, whereas with the 850fp down it takes 11 oz of down. Stuff sack size, 8.8 x 18 inches.

Differences are in the ounces between down bags, but the difference between synthetic and down is pretty plain. And Western Mountaineering is usually one of the first mentioned brands when quality and warmth are a priority for a reason - they really are well made bags, conservatively rated, usually warmer than advertised.

The other consideration -- your priorities. If you are a serious backpacker with intention of going out frequently and for years to come, down would be the ticket. If you are more concerned about budget and not so much about weight and size of the packed bag in the pack, or are not going to be backpacking a lot in the future, the Trestles is 89.00 full retail at REI, while the other bags are upward of $300.

Another option (which is the road I have taken) are quilts. Some folks are quite comfortable with them. I've been into the low 20F range with a down backpacking quilt from Jacks R Better. It weighs 1 lb, 4 oz and packs to the size of a softball.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#133526 - 05/11/10 11:40 AM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: MarkNM]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By MarkNM
so for my summer bag i'm thinking of the Mountain Hardwear Lamina 45 Degree ...its 1lb and i can always packa liner for fall....


Hmm... REI lists the average weight for this synthetic bag as 28 oz.

http://www.rei.com/product/802627?prefer...r:referralID=NA


Edited by ohiohiker (05/11/10 11:40 AM)

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#133558 - 05/11/10 09:09 PM Re: New Member trying to shave ounces - Gear List help [Re: ohiohiker]
skinewmexico Offline
member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 81
Money goes a long way when you buy used.

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