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#132054 - 04/13/10 11:55 PM New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff?
Hikeupmypants Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 8
Ok heres the deal, I've done a little bit of backpacking in the last 2 years, usually just 1 or 2 night type stuff in pretty comfortable weather (nothing less than 40 degrees). I usually just hike in running shoes, cargo shorts, t-shirt and fleece for when it gets cold. I don't have any real specific outdoor type apparel. For my backpacking gear I have a $40 Cuscus 5400ci backpack, a $20 tent from target, a $25 30 degree sleeping bag, and an inflatable mattress that I blow up myself lol.

This is my basic gear
backpack
tent
sleeping bag

So anyway I've enjoyed the few trips I've taken and would like to do some longer ones this summer... maybe like some 4-7 day trips. I'd REALLY like to do the wonderland trail in Washington. So now I'm trying to decide if I go on a longer trip which gear is the most important to upgrade. I know my stuff is ridiculously cheap and supposedly low quality, but for the trips I've been on its worked out pretty damn well! Besides some shoulder soreness, a little water leaking into the tent from the rain, tent stakes bending, and the stuff taking up a lot of room in my pack I haven't had any major problems. I've gotten lucky with weather though smile So if you were me which gear would you upgrade first and why?

My problem is its hard for me to rationalize buying some of the really expensive gear I see on this website. How much better is a $300 tent or sleeping bag than my $20 ones? I mean I have some extra money around to upgrade my gear, I'm must not sure it would be worth it. Of course I've never really had nice gear before or have been stuck in weather worse than a hard rain, so maybe I just don't know any better. Saving weight would obviously be nice...is it the lightweight material that makes the packs/tents/sleeping bags so expensive?

Basically I'd just like to know the key differences in the more expensive gear vs the stuff I have and which gear would you upgrade first if you were in my shoes. Recommendations more on the budget side please. Sorry if this has been covered before and thanks for your help!

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#132056 - 04/14/10 12:18 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: Hikeupmypants]
GetOutHiking Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 2
Where are you located? 3 seasons or 4 seasons? How much do you want to spend?

For your sleeping bag, you can get a good, basic, 20* down bag from Campmor for about $119. If you Google a coupon code for Campmor, you might find yourself with a 10% or 20% discount. Campmor 20* Down Mummy That will save you around 4 lbs of pack weight right there.

You can buy used 3 season tents for extra cheap, or if you'd prefer new or some specific design or style, there's a lot of websites running good sales right now, including Moosejaw. Sierra Trading Post also has good deals on gear, also check Spadout and GearTrade. With your tent weighing that much, you can easily shave 4 more lbs off.

I'd upgrade your sleeping bag and your tent before I'd upgrade your bag. You said your only major complaint is sore shoulders. This could be alleviated by a lighter weight bag and a lighter weight tent. You may find the pack being perfectly manageable with the lower weight, and your pockets won't be hit too hard either.


Edited by GetOutHiking (04/14/10 12:30 AM)

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#132057 - 04/14/10 12:46 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: Hikeupmypants]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Good, quality and lightweight gear is not expensive, relatively speaking. Of course it is more than $25 per item, but my point is that you could go to REI and drop $350 on a 3lb MSR Hubba tent-- or you could spend less than $250 and get an even lighter tent (Contrail, Squall 2, Rainbow, Moment). In fact you could even purchase a 13oz tarp for $70 from Campmor or an 8oz Poncho Tarp from Golite for $80 if you do not want four walls! All of these are under 2lbs-- which is 3lbs+ less than your tent.

Next up, sleeping bags. You could drop $500 on a Feathered Friend or Western Mountaineering sleeping bag, but the Campmor +20 for $120 is more than adequate. The Golite Ultra quilt (older model) for $120 is also a good choice. Both of which are going to save you over 4lbs of weight.

Backpacks are the best of all-- sub 3lb, 55-65L backpacks can start off for less than $150-- GG G4, SMD Swift, Gregory Z55, Vapor Trail-- the list is endless. You could pay twice that for a 6lb pack with bells and whistles that you do not need. All of these are at least 3lbs less than your current pack.

---------------------------------

With that said, if you are considering 4-7 day trips then IMHO you should upgrade your big 3 (pack, bag and tent). At the moment, your big three are around 16lbs-- plus 4-7 days worth of food brings your total weight to between 22lbs and 26.5lbs-- add two liters of water and you are now carrying over 30lbs of gear; and that is without your clothes, cook system, sleeping pad, filter, first aid, skin care, toiletries etc-- my guesstimate is that for a 4-7 day trip you could be pushing 40-45lbs.

By upgrading your big three, you could knock a *minimum* of 7lbs pounds out of your pack. 33-38Lbs is much better than 40-45lbs!

If you wanted then you could get your big three down to just three pounds for very little:

- 10x8 tarp: 13oz/$70
- Campmor +20 bag: 19oz/$120
- GG G4: 17oz/$125

Total: $315/49oz-- for minimal cost I have knocked 13Lbs out of your gear.

Before I get a backlash, I would not recommend a tarp or G4 for a beginner-- but I just wanted to show you that you can easily cut your weight for not a lot of money.








Edited by ChrisFol (04/14/10 12:58 AM)

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#132069 - 04/14/10 06:00 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: GetOutHiking]
Hikeupmypants Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By GetOutHiking
Where are you located? 3 seasons or 4 seasons? How much do you want to spend?


I'm in Chicago right now, but I'll be spending some time in Colorado and California this summer. I'm sure a 3 season tent would be fine. I would say I have around $500 to spend on the big 3.

Thanks for the recommendations so far. That Campmor bag definitely looks like my best bet for a sleeping bag.

I guess as far as the tent is concerned I have to decide whether or not I want a more traditional tent or an ultralite one (tarptent?) like you listed Chris. They certainly do look interesting. Is keeping the wind or water out a problem with those type tents? Otherwise a 2 person tent like this kelty tent looks appealing to me at 4lb 2 oz.
Also noob question: what is a footprint for a tent?

For the backpack some of those minimalist ones look a little intimidating. I kinda liked the looks of the Gregory Z55 and $125 seems like a good deal. (I'd assume I'd order the large at 6' 185lbs). They also have the Z65 for $150. Anywho I gotta do a little research. Any more help is appreciated!

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#132070 - 04/14/10 07:02 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: Hikeupmypants]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
"Besides some shoulder soreness, a little water leaking into the tent from the rain, tent stakes bending, and the stuff taking up a lot of room in my pack I haven't had any major problems."

Shoulder soreness and and any amount of water leaking into a tent are major problems. The impact isn't so bad on a weekend trip (you just hike out and go home a few hours early) - but on a 4-7 day trip, in cool, wet weather, a wet tent will quickly lead to a wet sleeping bag and clothing, which will lead to hypothermia - and no quick exit to the car. Can you say, "screwed"?

The length of the trip doesn't really determine whether you need quality gear - it's trip conditions. As long as you're very, very careful about weather, and cancel trips where a forecast for rain or cold will probably overwhelm the capabilities of your gear, you're fine with what you have. But, realistically, the gear you have means you're only looking at trips where it doesn't get colder than 40 degrees, and there's no chance of rain. You won't get to go on those longer trips very often, with those parameters.

I'd upgrade the tent first. The others have given you some good ideas about tents, packs, and sleeping bags. As far as you question about "how much better is good gear?" I'd suggest you go to a backpacking store (Dick's is not a backpacking store) and look at what they're selling. REI would be a good place to start, if one's close by; the local shop, where the sales staff actually backpacks, would be even better. The differences will be pretty readily apparent.

Good luck, and as you begin to choose a new tent, pack, and sleeping bag, let us know what you're thinking - we'll be glad to put in our 2 cents' worth (probably more like a buck and half's worth.)

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#132071 - 04/14/10 07:21 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: Hikeupmypants]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
You do not need an expensive car to go from point A to point B, but it is satisfying to drive high performance cars.

Any leaks is not acceptable for a tent, but your current one can be painted with seam sealer to keep you dry.

There is a good cost benefit ratio for high end sleeping bags when you consider the safety factor.

Your matress should be supplemented with closed cell foam pad below 45 degrees.

Have fun out there.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#132076 - 04/14/10 09:22 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: ringtail]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Going with what food said.

Buy a new sleeping bag. That would be the priority. Spend whatever is left on a tent. Get a new pack when you get more funds.

I started out in the same predicament you are in. I had a crappy bag, tent and pack. Now I have a decent quilt that is a lot lighter and warmer, and a tarp/hammock that I made. Eventually I will get to the pack.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#132084 - 04/14/10 11:23 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: Hikeupmypants]
Redfacery Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 82
Loc: NY
Good recommendations from previous people, so I'll just add my thoughts:

The Campmor 8x10 tarp works great, and though it is true using a tarp has a learning curve, let me suggest you think about getting a hammock to go with it. Before I open up a can of worms here, I love hammock camping, but am not a fanatic about it - I own a Crazy Crib, and like it a lot. It weighs in at 25 ounces with the heavy straps, and depending on what you switch in for them, can weigh much less. In the temperature range you said, expecting reasonably good weather, for $50, that might fit your needs well.

On the other hand, I've had great experiences with the Microlight Solo from LLBean. It's lighter than the kelty by a pound (2lb 15 oz) , and has never ever leaked for me even in driving, steady rain.

The footprint is the groundcloth, and depending on who you ask here, you'll get different answers on whether it's worth bringing. Personally, if I expect bad weather, I bring the microlight, and the footprint, and I stay dry- and condensation free.


I agree with the recommendation that you leave off getting a new pack till after you've decided on the others, if only because, as OregonMouse is wont to say, you can bring all your gear to the store and make sure it fits before buying.

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#132087 - 04/14/10 11:44 AM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: Hikeupmypants]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Originally Posted By Hikeupmypants


I guess as far as the tent is concerned I have to decide whether or not I want a more traditional tent or an ultralite one (tarptent?) like you listed Chris. They certainly do look interesting. Is keeping the wind or water out a problem with those type tents? Otherwise a 2 person tent like this kelty tent looks appealing to me at 4lb 2 oz.


Tartpents by Henry Shire are single walled tents-- they are perfectly suited for keeping out bugs, rain, snow and wind.

http://tarptent.com/products.html

Traditional tents are doubled walled and compared to the above are much heavier and are generally much more expensive when you get into the 3LB weight range.

The other option is a tarp (think the $70 8x10 Campmor tarp). Keeping the wind and rain out of these is all about pitch choice and quality, combined with site selection. A lot of people use these in conjunction with what is called a bivy-- which is a waterproof/breathable shell protection that you put your bag and pad in to sleep. This is by far the cheapest and lightest option. Tarp $70 (Campmor), Bivy $110 (Ti Goat) is a total of $180. Total weight would be around 20oz for the shelter.

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Bivy.html

A footprint is what goes on the ground, underneath the floor of your tent. My advice would be to purchase some Tyvek or Polycryo for under $10 and then cut that to the shape and size of your tent or even your bivy. This stuff is much lighter. Tent ground cloths can weigh around 5-11oz depending on the size of the tent. Tyvek will weigh in at around 1.5oz. So it is a cheap way to save weight, to give you piece of mind and you don't have to debate about if it is worth bringing or not.



Originally Posted By Hikeupmypants

For the backpack some of those minimalist ones look a little intimidating. I kinda liked the looks of the Gregory Z55 and $125 seems like a good deal. (I'd assume I'd order the large at 6' 185lbs). They also have the Z65 for $150. Anywho I gotta do a little research. Any more help is appreciated!


Before I started down the lightweight path, my first real pack was an old Gregory Z-pack, now renamed the "Z" series (Z-55/Z-65) and highly recommend the quality. However, pack fit is as individual as one shoe fit, and thus I recommend that you get measured and try out some packs to see what works and what doesn't. Remember you are under no obligation to buy from the people that you try from. Secondly, the size of your pack is not determined by your height or weight, but the length of your torso-- the is lots of information on the net showing how to measure your torso length.

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#132089 - 04/14/10 02:02 PM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: ChrisFol]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
If you haven't already found them, there are lots of excellent articles for beginners and on gear selection listed in the left-hand column of http://www.backpacking.net/, the home page of this site.

Another good site for gear selection is Mark Verber's website. Lots of ideas for gear, from the latest technology (not all of which is expensive) to low-budget alternatives.

While I have to admit that I have a $300 tent and a $325 sleeping bag, you certainly don't have to spend that much to be lightweight and comfortable! Some folks like to collect the latest and lightest gear that comes out--that's their hobby! That not only keeps the small manufacturers (many of whom work out of their basements or garages) who make the really innovative gear going, but puts a lot of excellent used lightweight gear on the market for those of us with lower budgets! If you want a solo tent, especially watch for used Tarptent Contrails right now--a lot of folk who have had them have switched over to Tarptent's new Moment. There's nothing wrong with the Contrail, it's just a lot of people wanting the newest thing!

I agree with the others here that your leaky tent is the first thing that absolutely must be replaced, for your own safety! Your pack may have to go too unless lightening your load solves the soreness problem (try that first). Pack fit is almost as individual as shoe fit, and it's vital that both be comfortable!

If you're going to be in the high altitude areas of the Rockies, where it can and often does freeze at night any time during the summer, the Campmor sleeping bag might not be warm enough--it's more like a 30* bag than a 20* bag. (Most sleeping bag ratings, especially for the less expensive ones, are purely fictional.) You may be able to get by with wearing your insulating clothing inside and with a good insulating pad underneath (the last being highly important). Elsewhere, the Campmor bag will be fine unless you're winter camping. Below 40*F, you either must supplement your blow-up air mattress with a closed cell foam pad, switch to foam alone or get an air pad that has insulation in it.


Edited by OregonMouse (04/14/10 02:10 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#132094 - 04/14/10 05:39 PM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: Hikeupmypants]
skippy Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 129
Loc: CO
Replace the tent first. A leaky tent will turn your nice sleeping bag into a cold sponge. My second backpacking trip ever was a miserable experience due to a leaky tent.

We were in the Bob Marshall wilderness and it rained for 3 days straight. A very cold rain. My $30 tent leaked from the top, bottom, and sides and my wife and I had one very saturated sleeping bag and one partially saturated sleeping bag. We attempted to cram into the one semi wet bag (we're skinny) and we shivered and froze every night. We also had to cram 3 people into one 2 man tent. It was a "fine and pleasant misery".

Get a good quality tent, tarp, or tarptent and make sure you seal the seams if they are not sealed by the manufacturer.

-Skippy

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#132096 - 04/14/10 09:36 PM Re: New to backpacking, should I upgrade my stuff? [Re: skippy]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 1010
Loc: Australia
hykerupmypants
First , as I like tents (keep in mind that I look after Tarptent here in Australia, so more than a biased opinion here...)

"How much better is a $300 tent or sleeping bag than my $20 ones"
Not 15 times better. However there are many differences to justify the reason why a lot of keen hikers will spend that and more on a tent.
(or a squadron of tents in my case)
My fav (design wise because I have only used it in the backyard) solo right now is the TT Moment.
This is why : for a start it packs very small (about 20x4") , it is light (about 29 oz) inc pole and pegs.
It has a dry set up (the inside is sealed as you set it up) it sets up fast and has a lot of usable space inside (for a solo)
Now a small light tent helps towards not having to get a heavier larger pack.

So something like the Vapour Trail will likely do . I quickly tested that and the Gregory , both felt good but I have a very standard size back.
Try the pack on with the expected weight you need to carry plus about 4-6 lbs (extra water and or food for longer sections)

I had a quick search on the Golite quilt, looks that you can get that for $135, that will keep you warm from about 25f up (not 20...)
Also small pack size and light too.
That Campmor bag also looks the part .
(I am more into quilts now but whatever you like)

Those 3 items (TT Moment, Vapour Trail and Golite quilt) will give you for around your budget a DELUXE kit, not a starter one.
Franco

The Contrail works well too particularly if you use trekking poles. However you need to practice a bit with this one and learn how to use it. The Moment is almost difficult not to set it up correctly...

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