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#125128 - 12/13/09 01:50 AM wood stoves for winter
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
I'm thinking of getting the Caldera Cone Inferno (for winter camping) for the following reasons:

1. It does not need constant fuel feeding like a BushBuddy

2. It may not be quite as efficient at burning fuel as the BB but its far more efficient in the USE of heat with its tight fitting cone (around the pot).

3. With the light fuel tab holder I can use ESBIT/FIRELITE tabs if necessary.

4. It packs smaller then the BB if not rolled up.

5. It's a lot lighter, even WITH tinder, than my MSR Dragonfly, fuel bottle & pump and windscreen.

Well? Have at me, ye of little Caldera Cone faith.
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"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#125133 - 12/13/09 08:03 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: 300winmag]
Rick Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 708
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I am of the 'Fire Cult' (in the winter). A little warmth is always welcome when its cccccold out there, not to mention the potential weight savings, especially if melting snow.

If the CC works for you, I say go for it.

A couple of thoughs, which I'm sure you have already thought about, But...

If your using it on snow pack you'll need a pan of some kind under it. Perhaps something as light as a roasting pan or a small piece of roof flashing.

Will you need a pruning saw?

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#125136 - 12/13/09 11:34 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: Rick]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada


1) If you're going to use wood for cooking/melting snow do you even need a "stove" at all? I.e. just build a campfire?

2) I can't see that critter working that well on a base of snow without something underneath it.
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#125140 - 12/13/09 01:31 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: phat]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Yeah, you guys have hit on the one problem of a BB or CC Inferno. Ya gotta have something under the stove.

I'm thinking along the lines of a small aluminum pan with a piece of 1/8" plywood painted with engine enamel beneath the pan, probably screwed to the pan so that the screw heads in the pan would keep the bottom of the CC Inferno from sliding.

And perhaps two "shepherd's crook" style aluminum tent stakes to keep the base pan stable on the snow. The crook would fit over the edge of the little pan on each side.

Whaddya think?

UPDATE:
Rick, The CC's Inferno comes W/a 2-piece metal disc to protect the ground. I'd hope the aluminum pan with the plywood screwed to the bottom can replace the CC disc and hopefully not burn the plywood. I'd have to test it to see.

_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#125144 - 12/13/09 02:02 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: 300winmag]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Rick has a picture somewhere of a "firebox" he built. look at that - might be more up your alley.

Although by the time you do that, give up and put it inside the tent: http://bofh.ucs.ualberta.ca/beck/pictures/hothex

That thing I now have pipe clamped to my vertical in back, with snow stakes on the front:






Edited by phat (12/13/09 02:05 PM)
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#125145 - 12/13/09 02:12 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: phat]
phat Offline
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Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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#125163 - 12/13/09 08:36 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: 300winmag]
Rick Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 708
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I forgot that the fire sits directly on the pan and surrounded by the Cone.

You'll need 22 g aluminumn (.02563" @ .357#/sqft). Anything thinner and I'd be afraid of burnng through it.

How about three tabs of windscreen material riveted to the Cone. The tab, with a hole in it, would fold out from the Cone. Push a stake through the tab and the aluminum sheet to anchor it to the snow. Not only will the Cone tend to slide on the aluminum sheet but there will be a layer of ice that will form under the aluminum sheet making it want to slide around on the snow / ice. You may even want to put a couple of branches under the aluminum sheet to space it off the snow.




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#125315 - 12/15/09 11:21 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: Rick]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
OK, for a C. Cone Inferno on-snow base:
(Replaces Inferno kit's 2-piece metal base)

1. round heavy duty aluminum cookie pan slightly larger than the C. Cone's base

2. round piece of 1/8" plywood double coated W/ hi temp engine enamel screwed to bottom of aluminum cookie pan

3. 2 aluminum "shepherd's crook" tent stakes to hold base & stove from sliding on snow. Crook ends hook over edge of cookie pan *OR* 10" aluminum gutter spikes thru holes drilled in pan base at each side. (cheaper & deeper)

4. A safety measure of thick branches under pan base. Leveling the pan would be important!

Rick, the CC Inferno's fire doesn't sit directly on the base sheet. A circular 1.4" wire mesh ring 1" high has another 1/4" mesh "plate" or, more correctly, grate, that sits on top of the ring. This spacing & mesh permits air to come up through the mesh & the fuel. In fact the air is SUCKED up by O2 burning and by convection - so you could say the Inferno "sucks". wink

Based on Hendrik's You-Tube video I feel the CC Inferno will generate plenty of heat to melt snow, boil water and cook. Hey, he boiled 1 LITER of cold Finnish lake water in just over 7 minutes. Notta too bad.

Baking with my Backpacker's Pantry fiberglas "yurt" pot cover, however would be more difficult and require hardwood coals or a few briquettes of (real) charcoal. Hmmm?
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"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#125385 - 12/16/09 10:13 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: 300winmag]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By 300winmag
OK, for a C. Cone Inferno on-snow base:
(Replaces Inferno kit's 2-piece metal base)

1. round heavy duty aluminum cookie pan slightly larger than the C. Cone's base

2. round piece of 1/8" plywood double coated W/ hi temp engine enamel screwed to bottom of aluminum cookie pan


the aluminum and paint won't protect that plywood enough.. it'll burn and scorch.

What I'd take if I was determined to do a CCone on snow? the cookie pan like you suggest, but sat on top of a couple layers of fibreglass welder's blanket with maybe an aluminim tray underneath. (or just set the cookie pan on top of some green logs set on the snow)

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#125464 - 12/17/09 09:44 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: phat]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Phat! You've got it!

I'll use some layers of woven fiberglass repair cloth stapled together and painted W/ engine paint (to keep it from fraying)and sandwiched between the pan and the 1/8" plywood. I'll cut the fibeglass layers smaller than the plywood so no fiberglass sticks out around the edge. That will be very heat resistant.

HA! It ain't rocket surgery after all! Phat, you're a durn sight smarter than you look in thet thar avatar.
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#125675 - 12/22/09 01:46 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: 300winmag]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.




Correct me if I am wrong but the stove you are talking about has no chimney and you cook outside.
May I suggest a stove with a chimney which only adds 12 ounces and lets you cook inside.

The chimney base sits on a piece of firewood which can bridge melted snow under the stove.


Edited by chimpac (12/22/09 02:13 AM)

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#125768 - 12/23/09 03:34 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: chimpac]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
That's a nice, light setup for a canvas tent. I'd love to have that setup because you don't have to deal with beating frost off the tent and you can dry your clothes and bag in the tent.

But I'm going to be carrying or pulking a silnylon Scarp 2 tent and cooking outdoors. Done that for decades and I can cope. Weight is the enemy and thus my reason for not wanting to carry a liter of white gas.
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#125775 - 12/23/09 06:32 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: 300winmag]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Winny
if you're pulking why should you care how much it weighs?
Jim crazy
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#125786 - 12/24/09 12:49 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: Jimshaw]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Jim,

Up to a point (say a total of 45 - 50 lbs.) I can carry extra weight when pulking. But after that it seems to get harder to haul uphill and along sidehills for any distance. Must be age catching up with me. (NAAAAaaaa!)
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#125789 - 12/24/09 02:03 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: Jimshaw]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
Winny
if you're pulking why should you care how much it weighs?
Jim crazy


Because if you don't pretty soon you're into the 12 foot toboggan and 35 pound hot tent - which there's definatly a place for but it's harder to take into rougher country.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#125808 - 12/24/09 04:28 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: phat]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Re: wood stoves, we have a temperature inversion in Central oregon and an air quality thingy. ALL burning is prohibited in cluding wood stoves, ONLY pellet stoves are allowed.


Re: pulks, I towed 60 pounds up Mt SHasta to about the 10,000 foot level and camped. I had so much gear because it was a practice and gear testing trip. That night a mountain lion walked up to my camp while I was sitting quietly under star light in my down suit. I zipped the tent door that night and left in the morning. I had a mountainsmith sled with waist harness and telescoping pole arrangement that allows you to ski downhill with it behind. I was kinda worried about the ski down, but it was actually easier than it would have been withouth the sled because the extra mass pushed me through cruddy snow that would otherwise have thrown me. It was one easy ski down to the truck at bunny flat.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#125811 - 12/24/09 05:23 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: Jimshaw]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6371
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
We're getting LOTS of wind here in Troutdale--all that stuff from your side funneling through the Columbia Gorge.

Supposedly it's OK to use the wood stove IF it's your only source of heat. Which it is at my place because the furnace folks haven't shown up yet. So much for the gas company rebates which expire 12/31.
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#125817 - 12/24/09 08:49 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: OregonMouse]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Heh. it's finally warming up here. It's been -20 to -35 for the last couple weeks, Christmas day is supposed to be only -3 - practically beach weather.

I'm actually hoping it'll get colder. I'm hoping to make it out for a bit of snowshoeing and a winter overnighter between xmas and new years - and although -30 is actually pretty challenging, I'm kinda hoping for nasty cold - because on the 6th I'm heading to austraila and hiking in tasmania on the 16th - so I'm kinda wanting to see what kind of maximum temperature differential I can ge on two hikes two weeks apart smile

I'll be taking the wood stove in the tent..
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#125847 - 12/26/09 01:54 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: phat]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Brrr... That -30 (F. I assume)is c-c-cold. The lowest Temp I've ever slept in was -22 F. in a quinzhee. I was very comfortable. The coldest in a tent was -10 F. That too was OK

The coldest I've tried to ski in was -40 F. at the Pre-Olympics in '79 at Lake Placid, N.Y. The snow was like sand.
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#125890 - 12/26/09 08:51 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: phat]
RHodo Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Texas Hill Country
Originally Posted By phat

- because on the 6th I'm heading to austraila and hiking in tasmania on the 16th -



I'm probably not the only one that hates you right now, in the nicest, green with envy sort of way. Please tell us about your planned trip, can't wait to hear the post trip report too!

Regards,

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#126414 - 01/07/10 09:21 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: 300winmag]
chimpac Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 148
Loc: alberta,can.
Originally Posted By 300winmag
That's a nice, light setup for a canvas tent. I'd love to have that setup because you don't have to deal with beating frost off the tent and you can dry your clothes and bag in the tent.

But I'm going to be carrying or pulking a silnylon Scarp 2 tent and cooking outdoors. Done that for decades and I can cope. Weight is the enemy and thus my reason for not wanting to carry a liter of white gas.

I do not think weight is much of an issue here. My tarp is 8'x15' nylon weighs 5 lbs, for 2 people, it could be silnylon and less weight. You do not need canvas to have an inside stove. A 12 ounce chimney will let you be inside. My stove weighs 16 ounces, yours is probably a few ounces less.
I take that back in reading your post again weight of the gas is an issue so all I can say it's worth the extra freight to be inside in winter for cooking.


Edited by chimpac (01/07/10 09:35 AM)

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#126486 - 01/08/10 12:29 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: chimpac]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6371
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
As mentioned elsewhere, lots of places we are not allowed to build fires, and that includes wood stoves. That's especially true in national parks and in wilderness areas close to or above timberline. Wood stoves are included in this ban.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#126488 - 01/08/10 04:05 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: OregonMouse]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
OM, I asked the rangers in Yosemite about this last winter. You can use a small wood stove in winter, at least up at the Badger Pass area, but you can't cut down anything. This means finding wood would be difficult. You can't camp in the established campgrounds along Glacier Point road either. Not sure why.
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#126498 - 01/08/10 10:43 AM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: TomD]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Last year our group packed in a pan and a log to burn out of Badger Pass in Yosemite, per Park personnel, that was ok.

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#126548 - 01/08/10 11:31 PM Re: wood stoves for winter [Re: TomD]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
TomD
You can't snow camp in the established camp grounds because of inadvertent damage done to their summer camps, like tp and tree and plant damage and stuff. Do you have to pack out tp at badger in the winter now? If so then maybe you can't camp in them just cuzz... frown

All, collecting firewood in the winter is sort of difficult, especially if you can't cut branches and wet snow covered wood doesn't burn too well. confused The Sierras in general is a no wood fire area so get used to the idea of wearing warm clothes - look at Toms coat in his avatar.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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