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#123809 - 11/14/09 12:36 PM MSG: anybody else think its toxic?
weight2funratio Offline
member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 20
Loc: MN
Hey Folks,

I was just reading the posts about Toxins in Plastic, and was wondering if anybody else is also as sceptical of the safety of eating MSG (Monosodium Glutimate)? I avoid the use of plastics in cooking because, even if the jury is still out on whether the materials which are shown to be leaching out of them are dangerous enough to cause health problems, I have a better alternative anyways with my Ti cookware which isn't leaching anything. However, I find that when I pick up a pre-made meal for backpacking, it almost always contains MSG. Does anyone else find that to be a problem?

(I consider it another good reason to make my own, I guess, but it would be nice to have the option to buy a prepackageed item once and awhile. I really get an allergic reaction from MSG.)
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If a robot could carry my stuff, I'd make him carry me with my Osprey on my back any way.

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#123810 - 11/14/09 12:40 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: weight2funratio]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
why do people persist with this misconception that anyone COOKS in plastic? You can't. It melts. People do eat out of it all the time, however. Pouring hot water in does not equal cooking!

AS for MSG - I don't eat prefab backpacker meals partially because of the ingredients, partially because they don't taste good to me. MSG tends to give me headaches.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

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#123811 - 11/14/09 12:47 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: weight2funratio]
Zalman Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 97
Loc: Olympic Peninsula, Washington,...
I don't know about the safety of eating MSG, but it's not much fun for me. Small amounts tend to upset my stomach, larger portions provide nasty headaches.

I've recently tried a handful of pre-packaged freeze dried meals from Mountain House and Backpacker's Pantry, none of which listed MSG as an ingredient. A few of the meals for sale did list MSG, and I passed over those. Some of the meals I've tried listed "natural flavors" as an ingredient, which I've heard could include MSG, but so far I haven't experienced any of the discomfort I usually associate with MSG from eating those meals.

(I've always thought that if a flavoring was really natural, the ingredients would tell you what it is, instead of what it does.)
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#123814 - 11/14/09 01:10 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: weight2funratio]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Anybody on the pursuit of umami will embrace some MSG in their food. It's a natural byproduct of fermentation. I don't seek out food loaded with the stuff, however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami

Cheers,

Rick
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#123822 - 11/14/09 03:48 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Rick_D]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
I have to avoid MSG other than in trace amounts. I am prone to migraine and MSG is one of the more potent migraine triggers for me. So is the sodium nitrite used to keep the meat in sausage from going green. MSG is a natural by-product of some types of fermentation. It is also present in hydrolyzed yeast, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, textured vegetable protein and most "natural flavors".
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#123824 - 11/14/09 04:31 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Pika]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
All I know is msg kicks my butt, I bring ramen on the trail but not the flavor packet, add my own spice.

That doesn't mean its toxic, its just not for me.
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"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#123831 - 11/14/09 07:31 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: weight2funratio]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
One reason why MSG can give such a bad punch is that often it goes hand in hand with high sodium. If your meal has 3K of sodium AND any form of MSG, yes, it can really do a trigger on the head. (Now before anyone says "but I don't eat that much sodium!"....if you eat a 2 person meal that is commercial, yes, you can. Sad it is.)

MSG is well hidden of course in many foods, both in naturally occurring forms (mushrooms for example) and in crafty labels for it as mentioned.

One reason to make your own meals of course. MSG though is something to consider of this vein "Use in moderation". In other words....small amounts don't affect most people, but chowing down a feast of it will. So avoid eating the 4 serving meal high in it in one serving wink It is like my brother and his migraine triggers - he can drink one orange soda but not 6 of 'em. Same with me - 1 red cookie won't do it, but a whole package...and yeah, not good.
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#123846 - 11/15/09 12:23 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: lori]
Fishnaked Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 191
Loc: West
Originally Posted By lori
why do people persist with this misconception that anyone COOKS in plastic? You can't. It melts. People do eat out of it all the time, however. Pouring hot water in does not equal cooking!


Well, perhaps it's because they do cook in plastic...routinely...in the microwave.

To the original poster; I have never seen MSG listed as an ingredient in Mary Janes or the organic Backpacker Pantry meals. As far as packaged "backpacking" food goes, both taste exceptional to me.

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#123848 - 11/15/09 07:25 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Fishnaked]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Rusty, if you need to worry about MSG be aware that it doesn't need to be listed as an ingredient for it to be included in a packaged food. For an introduction to some of the ingredients in which you will find it, check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid_(flavor)
Since I am sensitive to MSG and other glutamates, I have to read labels quite carefully to avoid them. A lot of true organic packaged foods contain, if not MSG, then at least glutamate-containing flavorings.


Edited by Pika (11/15/09 07:26 AM)
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#123850 - 11/15/09 09:57 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Pika]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
Mary Janes contains no MSG, pretty sure Enertia trail foods is MSG free as well, not sure about others.

Mary Janes is amazing btw, best prepackaged food in a bag I've had and the bags burn away in your campfire.
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"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#123864 - 11/15/09 01:12 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Pika]
Fishnaked Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 191
Loc: West
Thanks for the info, Pika.

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#123903 - 11/16/09 09:20 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: weight2funratio]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
In my experience it seems to have the same toxicity as peanuts.

Neither one of these bothers me at all. No one that I know has died of either.

Those who are sensitive to peanuts generally manage to take care of themselves by careful label reading.

I haven't seen anything near the negative publicity of MSG as I do peanuts.

In this line of thinking, "Are peanuts toxic?"

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#123906 - 11/16/09 10:07 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Roocketman]
Pika Offline
member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1814
Loc: Rural Southeast Arizona
Quote:
"Are peanuts toxic?"

If by "toxic" you mean that eating peanuts can cause death, then the answer is emphatically yes. Check this:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/425790/peanut_allergies_are_you_nuts_you_better.html?cat=5

Or just Google "Fatalities due to Peanuts".

No evidence of MSG fatalities unless consumed in exceedingly large doses. But, if a person is subject to migraine and MSG is a trigger, an MSG migraine can make you wish for death.
_________________________
May I walk in beauty.

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#123911 - 11/16/09 10:49 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: bigb]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By bigb
pretty sure Enertia trail foods is MSG free as well, not sure about others.


No, some of it does. Just not marked MSG. It is hidden well.......you have to read the labels very well.
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#123918 - 11/16/09 01:07 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: sarbar]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Sarbar, did you get your vertigo under control or figured out, I would like to know. I get a bout three-four times a year, especially after cutting firewood and splitting it for too long of a time. That is the only time I have missed work the last five years is when I get sick and have vertigo. Thank you.

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#123922 - 11/16/09 01:54 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: hikerduane]
Fishnaked Offline
member

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 191
Loc: West
Originally Posted By hikerduane
Sarbar, did you get your vertigo under control or figured out, I would like to know. I get a bout three-four times a year, especially after cutting firewood and splitting it for too long of a time. That is the only time I have missed work the last five years is when I get sick and have vertigo. Thank you.


Hi,

I know it wasn't a question for me but thought I'd add my experience with cutting firewood (I assume you're doing it with a chainsaw). I used to get really bad headaches and generally, just feel sickly for a day or so after cutting wood. So, I started wearing a charcoal activated respirator and all symptoms completely disappeared. The respirator cartridges fill up w/ emissions fairly quickly so I try to cut with my back to the wind...when there is any (blows the emissions away).

Perhaps it is the saw's emissions giving you problems too, I have no idea. Just thought I'd mention it...

Good luck.

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#123930 - 11/16/09 06:28 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: sarbar]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
At least we got Mary Jane
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"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#123934 - 11/16/09 07:18 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: bigb]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
In addition to MSG and excessive sodium, I have to read labels for iodine or "sea salt." The latter contains enough traces of iodine that I can't use it on a regular basis without breaking out (once or twice very occasionally seems to be OK). I note that the Mary Jane's Farm stuff contains sea salt, so I have to avoid it. That's why I dehydrate my own food.
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#123937 - 11/16/09 09:44 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Fishnaked]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Thank you, but no. I get vertigo at home around 4,000', elevation of 11,000' and at sea level. The last two Labor Day weekends, same day. My annual Fall trip the last two years, vertigo first day. Lost my snack this year in Oct., had no dinner then, trying to set my tent up in the wind with vertigo raging, off the next morning bping after eating and no more further effects. Last year, hiked all day, with on and off vision problems all afternoon and some vertigo, which laying down for a few minutes resolved luckily as a snow storm was coming in. Fine the rest of the trip. This summer about three weekends in a row from doing heavy labor, either shoveling road base on our private road or cutting and loading firewood. I had to lay down for 20 to 30 minutes. I think it has to do with my neck and shoulders. The quack neurologist had a MRI of my neck and brain done. Kept asking me why I thouht it was my neck. I had a migraine in his office and he was not concerned about that. Worse case, I have to lay down overnight.

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#123945 - 11/17/09 08:53 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: Pika]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
Originally Posted By Pika
Quote:
"Are peanuts toxic?"

If by "toxic" you mean that eating peanuts can cause death, then the answer is emphatically yes. Check this:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/425790/peanut_allergies_are_you_nuts_you_better.html?cat=5

Or just Google "Fatalities due to Peanuts".

No evidence of MSG fatalities unless consumed in exceedingly large doses. But, if a person is subject to migraine and MSG is a trigger, an MSG migraine can make you wish for death.


Thanks, I knew all of that.

I asked my question tongue in cheek...... similar, perhaps, to the sense of the original question.

My point is that sometimes we overdo a concern or become over concerned about a narrow point.

Peanuts Toxic, heck yes. MSG toxic, getting close to far fetched. MSG or milk causes digestive problems? Yes. Milk Toxic? :-)

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#123946 - 11/17/09 08:57 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: hikerduane]
CamperMom Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: Eastern MA, USA
Hmm-

I think I'd be checking out a good chiropractor, hopefully one with a strong background in neurology.

CM

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#123951 - 11/17/09 10:06 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: hikerduane]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
HD, for me it is a knock on wood thing. My neurologist decided that for me it is a form of a migraine - that comes with no headache. My brother and father all had severe migrianes as I was growing up, but I didn't start getting bad ones until my early 30's. From what I described of some of my dad's worse ones he most likely suffered from vertigo ones as well (at that moment I really wished he was alive to ask him). They are a type of migraine that is often overlooked and not given any attention.

For me we realized I did have signals before hand. For a couple days before I would have horrid headaches in the back of my neck and head, slowing working up to the top of my head. Then it would stop. And then, bam.

Around 3 years ago they took me off of ALL artificial dyes, lowered my sodium consumption tremendously and I went on a a steady diet of BP pills as well. This has for the most part controlled it. Like my brother and dad, red food dyes are very bad for me. I had to change my BP meds this year and ended up with headaches for the first time in a couple years - they didn't control them as well. It seems beta blockers can nearly stop them.

I'd be looking into the stress that wood chopping does to you - it may well be a trigger, the up and down, up and down. That can play havoc with your brain quickly.

PS: My other issue we solved is I have to stay hydrated when hiking. Get dehydrated and I get vertigo twinges fast - due to my BP going in the basement (BP pills + dehydration can cause low BP quickly).
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www.trailcooking.com

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#123952 - 11/17/09 10:09 AM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: CamperMom]
sarbar Offline
member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 1453
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By CamperMom
Hmm-

I think I'd be checking out a good chiropractor, hopefully one with a strong background in neurology.

CM


IMO, if one has good insurance should get a referral to a neurologist. After my bouts they eventually did a couple MRI's - I was fortunate (if you can call it that) to be seen by a doctor during a vertigo bout. Worst car ride ever but worth it to be seen and have someone say "OK, this does exist".

Seeing a neurologist was priceless to be diagnosed on why I was having these issues.
_________________________
Freezer Bag Cooking, Trail Cooking, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
www.trailcooking.com

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#123962 - 11/17/09 01:31 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: sarbar]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Thank you, I think mine was a quack, I did get a referral. More later.

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#123964 - 11/17/09 01:32 PM Re: MSG: anybody else think its toxic? [Re: sarbar]
CamperMom Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1228
Loc: Eastern MA, USA
He may be a rare breed, but my chiropractor has a PhD in Neurology. It is amazing what he can test for and "see." He has done me more good than my PCP, consulting MD anaesthesiologist, neurologist and neurosurgeon, combined.

CM

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