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#120134 - 08/31/09 10:21 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Paul]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
Birkenstocks are the only sandals I know of with an orthotic like food bed. I think I've seen some of them made (or covered) in rubber rather than the cork and leather standard base but I don't know if you can sinch them tight.
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If I wouldn't eat it at home, why would I want to eat it on the trail?

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#120135 - 08/31/09 10:25 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Trailrunner]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Trailrunner
Originally Posted By TomD
in fast running rivers where you might be at least knee deep and can't see anything at all, one mistep and you can easily go over.


So true.

I have a video, shot last March, of a friend crossing Sespe Creek. She was in up to mid-calf and the water appeared to be benign.......until she stepped into an unseen hole and found herself up to her chest!!!!!!


Another resounding vote on the traction issue. I don't go barefoot or stocking feet for that reason usually.

My usual strategy is to go on through, then maybe dry my socks off by wringing them out. Typically I am wearing just a polypro liner sock, or a poly liner with a wool sock. if I wring out the wool sock effectively I tend to not have too much water after.

Oftentimes if I am just wearing a liner sock and trailrunners I don't wring them out. I just keep going. This is the primary attraction of a trailrunner to me. Wearing boots I'll usually wring out.

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#120142 - 09/01/09 04:24 AM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Jimshaw]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Given some of the responses since my last post, I am going to repeat myself. The reason I would keep my boots on is because I am often alone and I want to limit my risk of injury. If you cut up a foot, sprain an ankle or break a bone in your foot and can't walk, you will have to be rescued, either by your companion or companions, if any or if alone, by yourself. If you have a PLB, SPOT or working cel phone, you can call for help, but you will need help nonetheless.

Rescue avoidance should be first on your mind and that comes with limiting risk. However, as I also said earlier, as long as you aren't with me, do whatever you like.
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Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#120159 - 09/01/09 05:49 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: finallyME]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
“How was Timp? I am thinking of taking my scouts up it next spring.”

That was one of the funnest hikes I ever did. I am impressed that kids can do it. It is labeled ‘strenuous’. We saw two girls that were 9 yrs old going with their dad. They left about 5pm and were going to camp halfway up; then summit the next day. They’ve done it before.

We ran into one scout troop of about 9; an interesting story… thread drift here.
First a little background. We did this trip by leaving Thurs Aug 20th at 2:30pm. Our goal was Emerald lake. It took us 5 hours to go 7 miles. And it was straight up. I drank ½ gal of water throughout. My cousin and I weren’t quite used to that altitude yet and it was hard getting there. I got lost twice. The next day we got up and left Emerald at 8:30am and summited Mt. Timp. at 11:30am. That’s about 1 mile/hour. It got steeper the closer you got. We followed the trail. On the way down, we were told we could save an hour by going across the north-side snow bank (not going down the ‘glacier’). We did. That was fun and it only took us 2 hours from the summit back to Emerald Lake. At the lake, there was a scout troop of about 9 that started from the Aspen trailhead in the morning. They were huffing and puffing at the lake. One scout came to me and said “Are you the guy with the Purifier?”. Hmmm, “Yea I have a Purifier”. The scout said, “We were told you were coming and I’m real thirsty.” I really didn’t know what he was talking about. Apparently some ranger told him another ranger would be up their purifying water. I didn’t see any ranger. The scout only drank 1qt on the way up and he was dehydrated. I gave him a quart. He drank in 10 seconds. I gave him another quart. Another scout came and wanted water. I gave him some. I asked if any more scouts want water. The scout master told me they were all right now. They WERE going to summit Mt. Timp but they had no energy left. So they started descending back down. My lady cousin and I resupplied w/ water and headed down. We passed the scouts. They were hurting. I could tell some of them were going to get hammer toes with their boots. My cousin gave them some more water as we passed them. Since they were getting UV burn, my cousin gave them some sunscreen.

I loved the mountain goats (they cleaned up my camp) and the hummingbirds up there at 10K.

So my personal take is-- it’s easier to summit if you take 2 days doing it.

-Barry

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#120160 - 09/01/09 06:04 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Paul]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
“If you know of any sandals that will aloow me to use my orthotics, I'd love to hear about them.”

My wife wears orthotics in her sandals. She can’t wear them in the teva tera-fi2 because its arch is too high. She wears them in the teva ‘Women's Pretty Rugged Leather 2’, black. She has a black orthodic so it hides pretty good. But they don’t make them for men. I don’t know of a men’s sandal flat enough for an orthotic AND keep the orthotic from slipping out. My chiropractor has a sandal that can hold an orthotic but it is ridiculously heavy (40oz/pair).

So around the house/yard/store my wife wears her orthotics in the ‘pretty rugged’ sandal. But when she’s doing major hiking, she slips on the tera-fi2’s and has been fine with those; i.e., no orthotics.

May everyone find their foot zen.

-Barry

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#120171 - 09/01/09 10:10 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: BarryP]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

I gotta start looking a little more. My wife can hike all day in birkenstocks, but every shoe/runner I put her in for rougher terrain where you might need it she hates. need something closed toe but like birkenstocks..
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#120509 - 09/07/09 09:38 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Paul]
Hobblit Offline
member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont
Wow, I'm amazed at these replies. The first thing I notice is that no one used the word "boots." I don't know much about ultralight backpacking---I'm trying to go light rather than ultralight. I'm assuming that most of you avoid boots? I know there are ecological reasons to not wear boots, especially ones with a heavy tread.

I feel I must wear boots because I have some extra body weight and one bad ankle and need the support of boots. On my last trip there were at least 10 stream crossings. I actually timed myself and it took me about 10 minutes to take off my pack, change from boots into crocs, cross the stream, dry my feet, and put my socks and boots back on. That means that at least one hour per day was spent just changing footwear! That bugged me but I couldn't figure out any other way to do it.

I also found that constantly taking the pack off and putting it back on for stream crossings consumed quite a bit of energy. As an older person I can't afford to squander any energy. That trip convinced me to abandon my 5-lb 8-oz. Gregory Baltoro and get a pack I can actually carry.

For the moment I don't have any solutions, especially in the fall when getting wet and staying wet is not an option. To the OP: Crocs are very light, easy to clp to your pack, and a joy around camp after a long day on the trail.

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#120511 - 09/07/09 09:51 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Hobblit]
Keith Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1667
Loc: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Originally Posted By Pinecone
I feel I must wear boots because I have some extra body weight and one bad ankle and need the support of boots.
<snip> Crocs are very light, easy to clp to your pack, and a joy around camp after a long day on the trail.


If you have actual medical advice, I'm reluctant to contradict. However, there is a strong weight of opinion that one doesn't normally need "ankle support" and that such support may actually be counter productive to re-establishing strength and proper gait, as well as increasing the potential for some injuries in some situations. With lighter shoes, you are also likely to be more agile thus avoiding some potential injuries, as well.

A good orthotic in a lightweight trail shoe can be very suppportive. I can recommend Superfeet although I am now a Featherspring convert.

As you move to lighter pack weight, you'll be able to move to liighter shoes, as well. Remember 1 lb on your foot equals maybe 5 on your back.

Crocks are nice -- but around here, they are considered medium weight, not lightweight. I think they weight something like 8-9 oz?
_________________________
Human Resources Memo: Floggings will continue until morale improves.

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#120531 - 09/08/09 10:57 AM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Paul]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1348
Loc: Seattle, WA
I've always walked through streams without taking off my shoes or boots. I used to wear 5 lb Raichle Palus.

I've just never found a problem with getting my shoes or boots wet. They are usually wet with sweat anyway. The stream crossings wash off some of the salt and cool my feet down.

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#120533 - 09/08/09 11:49 AM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Keith]
Hobblit Offline
member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont
Yes, I have medical problems. I have sprained my ankle quite a few times. When that happens the ligaments remain perpetually vulnerable--I think they become permanently stretched. Some excess weight adds to the problem, in addition to loss of balance with age and unsteadiness due to hip arthritis. Trail shoes are not in my future.

My crocs are cheap Wal-Mart knockoffs, really featherweight. Much lighter and cheaper than the real thing.


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#120537 - 09/08/09 12:45 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Hobblit]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
You seem to be very efficient in getting shoes off and crossing. An hour a day does not seem so bad for crossings. I am not sure your "problem" needs a solution. I would call you an expert stream crosser already.

I think it just depends if you want to keep dry feet or not. If I am getting feet wet on the trail anyway, I just cross streams with shoes on, but occassionally wring out the wool socks. If streams are the only thing getting me wet, I will change into my crocks every time. It is tedious, but then it does feel great to cool off my feet and getting a few minutes out of the hiking shoes also feels very good.

For me it is a good excuse to take the pack off! Sounds like taking the pack off and on is the major problem for you. A lighter pack helps. In my opinion, if taking a pack off and on is a struggle, the pack is too heavy. You also may look at the way you take your pack off and put it on. Are you doing it in the most ergonomic way?

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#120558 - 09/08/09 05:48 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: wandering_daisy]
Hobblit Offline
member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont
All good points, thanks. After that stream-crossing trip I did decide to reduce my load. I got a lighter backpack and summer sleeping bag, and will take my lightest tent next time. I MAY give up fresh fruits and vegetables, but that will be hard. :-))) I'm new to light packing and need to fine tune quite a few things. Yes, it can feel great to cool off your feet, but at times I encountered a stream every 15 minutes. "Tedious" is the word.

One thing I really don't understand is how you can have healthy feet after several days of wet shoes and socks. I've always considered dry feet to be essential.

I take the pack off and put it on using my knee. I found myself resenting the stiff Baltoro padding and appreciate the softer Jade 50 padding.


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#120567 - 09/08/09 07:55 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Hobblit]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
"One thing I really don't understand is how you can have healthy feet after several days of wet shoes and socks. I've always considered dry feet to be essential."

Dry them at the end of the day and put on dry socks, so they're wet in the daytime, but not at night.

For during the day, some folks use hydropel or bodyglide.
I have no experience at doing that; my limited experience with bodyglide to prevent blisters suggests to me that hydropel might be the better choice.
_________________________
Brian Lewis
http://postholer.com/brianle

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#120576 - 09/08/09 10:46 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: BrianLe]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
Grapple hook and rope? One time on a hiie we had a strong swimmer swim with a rope i tied to a tree and we got are gear across with the rope, and then hung upside down scooting across the rope. This was tough at a time i carried a 38+ pound pack.

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#120728 - 09/11/09 05:09 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Paul]
deliriousNomad Offline
member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 64
Loc: Matthews, NC
I used to use a pair of Tevas. Change into them - cross - change back. One time we had about 5-6 crossings over about 3 miles or so, and the gi-normous amount of rain raised water levels to whitewater rapids level :-) Got through with the Tevas - and kept hiking in them until finished with the crossings, then changed back.

Now I have a pair of crocs for around camp - but I haven't used them yet for fording...
_________________________
- deliriousNomad

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#121470 - 09/25/09 02:44 AM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Paul]
Liquid Sunshine Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4
Loc: New Zealand
Hi,

from many accumulated kilometres walked in rivers and creeks on whitewater kayaking trips over many years, I can tell you one thing:

Whatever you choose to do, do NOT go barefeet, on socks, in flip-flops or crockers.

Hiking boots are best, trail running shoes or running shoes can be ok if it's not too extreme and you're careful. Where you can clearly see the ground and it's not more than knee deep, well fitting Tevas or similar can be acceptable, but the fact that they leave your toes basically unprotected means that if your foot slips forward and crashes into something sharp, the rest of your trip may be problematic and painful.

Not using proper footwear during river crossings is one of the main reasons why people fall into the water with all consequences including injury, hypothermia and drowning, and also a good example of a seriously misguided lightweight approach, imho.

I wear Falke Trekking Coolmax socks which are medium thick; where I hike, with river crossings or without, I often have wet feet all day due to serious rain. My shoes fit really well and have been worn in for quite some time, and this combination allows me to walk for days in totally wet socks and shoes without getting any serious blisters, if any.

Everyone will have to find their own best combination of socks and shoes, but I can say from my own experience that that is possible - you may just have to experiment a while until you find your own best solution.

From my experience in river reading and in walking in rivers I can clearly say that more often than not I would rather walk in soaked shoes and socks, even if it means blisters, or even turn back, than walk through with inadequate or no footwear. I have simply seen too much carnage caused by that.

Just my 2c...

Cheers,

Matt

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#121727 - 10/01/09 09:57 AM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Liquid Sunshine]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
“Hiking boots are best, trail running shoes or running shoes can be ok if it's not too extreme and you're careful. Where you can clearly see the ground and it's not more than knee deep, well fitting Tevas or similar can be acceptable, but the fact that they leave your toes basically unprotected means that if your foot slips forward and crashes into something sharp, the rest of your trip may be problematic and painful.”

Hiking boots have been a pain for me at river crossings. I gave them up a few years ago.

I do a vast majority of my backpacking in sandals. If you buy a half size larger, the ‘unprotected’ problem is SIGNIFICANTLY minimized as the sandal forefront will get stubbed instead of your toes. Also the Teva ‘spider’ rubber has MUCH better traction under water than hiking boots and most shoes. I have done several waist high muddy water crossings with Teva’s. And it was great. I don’t have to change footwear and the sandal dries fast!

The key is: make sure the sandal is tight on before the river crossing. And use hiking poles.

To invite someone to walk for days or even hike 20 miles in continuous wet socks and shoes is risky. The foot needs some breathing time so that the skin won’t soften, wrinkle, and then split and bleed. Some of our scouts have gone through that frown. No one, who where’s sandals, goes through that. smile

May everyone find their foot zen.
-Barry


Edited by BarryP (10/01/09 09:59 AM)
Edit Reason: added hiking pole tip.

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#122328 - 10/13/09 03:21 PM Re: creek fording strategies [Re: Paul]
Bear Cavalry Offline
member

Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Keweenaw Peninsula, MI
I did a couple week-long canoeing/portaging/backpacking trips this spring and fall. These trips required walking through mud, streams, and into lakes. Your feel were almost always wet, I just wore a pair of running shoes that drained fairly fast and did my best to dry them once I set up camp at the end of the day. I kept one pair of socks dry to wear with sandals around camp to let my feet rest/dry every night, but other than that, I think you should be fine with having wet feet, once you get used to it. I guess it makes a difference how long we are talking and what the weather is. In may, wet feet are cold feet, especially in Canada.

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